Fracking just not viable in SA – study

[genetic]

You must have a miserable existence...wake up late because phone time was incorrect....bloody cANCer....drive to work, traffic jam....bloody cANCer, can't find parking ...bloody corrupt cANCer taking all the spots for their buddies, dont get paid enough...bloody cANCer taking all jobs, bloody AA, BEE....
...the whole day grumbling about the cANCer ruining your life, but not doing anything to improve the country...here's a tip, its not going to get better with your grumbling, just top yourself already.

Him and Hemi300c. cANcer, cANcer, cANcer, cANcer, cANcer...

Stuck record.

 

[diesel]

Until they have drilled the exploration holes and done the feasability survey there is no way the WWF can say its not viable, if its not viable the companies will not do it thats a guarantee. WWF should worry about rhino horns and leave the development of the country to the developers.

 

[Stochos]

Mmm wwf report? Biased perhaps?

WWF would care more about some insect in the desert than getting people jobs.

Lets keep in mind global peace as a reason for fracking.

Fracking can also reduce Islamic terrorism by lowering oil prices—by creating more supply.

Saudi Barbaria would have less money to fund the building and maintaining mosques and madrassas (brainwashing and hate propagation centres) and jihad operations worldwide.

 

[3WA]

Until they have drilled the exploration holes and done the feasability survey there is no way the WWF can say its not viable, if its not viable the companies will not do it thats a guarantee. WWF should worry about rhino horns and leave the development of the country to the developers.

This.

There is no way to say what is in the ground until exploration data is recovered. Companies collect this data knowing full well that there may be no return on investment. And there is no cost to the taxpayer - if the company choses not to develop during the period that they have exclusive rights, the data is relinquished to PASA.

 

[jansdejager]

This.

There is no way to say what is in the ground until exploration data is recovered. Companies collect this data knowing full well that there may be no return on investment. And there is no cost to the taxpayer - if the company choses not to develop during the period that they have exclusive rights, the data is relinquished to PASA.

The WWF is only highlighting research done in this area that is of interest to all parties involved. Maybe you should order a gag order, or jam the signal, since this is what you and @diesel are suggesting here.

Furthermore this study does not make reference to exploration being unviable. Nobody brought up exploration here except you. Which make this a very poor attempt at trolling the discussion into a completely different direction. And your suggestion that the government gets the data for free after an exploratory drilling company loses its mandate, means everybody sits on their hands for a decade or two. Have you thought this through.

 

[diesel]

The WWF is only highlighting research done in this area that is of interest to all parties involved. Maybe you should order a gag order, or jam the signal, since this is what you and @diesel are suggesting here.

Furthermore this study does not make reference to exploration being unviable. Nobody brought up exploration here except you. Which make this a very poor attempt at trolling the discussion into a completely different direction. And your suggestion that the government gets the data for free after an exploratory drilling company loses its mandate, means everybody sits on their hands for a decade or two. Have you thought this through.

Firstly im not derailing anything , was merely pointing out the fact that the WWF has pulled the "unviable" claim out its arse and is based on assumptions.

lets take a look.

“Based on our current knowledge and assessment, shale-gas extraction has, at best, marginal economics, and its commercial success is largely dependent on five key drivers,” the report said.

These factors remained constant, whether one was in favour of fracking or not. They are:

* the rate at which technological capability is learnt; - Capability and technology has been refined and will be brought over, nothing new needs to be discovered.

* understanding the geology;- S.a has world class geologists , great opportunity for creating more jobs in this field.

* a high enough price for gas and oil plus other incentives;- if its not feasable the companies wont go ahead with it.

* the timing and scale of drilling;- again the feasability study will determine this.

* and lessening the cost, during fracking and afterwards, of “externalities” – the costs borne by the environment and society, which are not captured in the market price. This includes issues like water pollution or loss of agricultural livelihoods.- Umm the desert isnt exactly prime agricultural land, water will probably be the main issue here , jobs will be created and more families will have an income, towns will boom with mining supply stores , hardware , electricians , engineering works etc etc.

The report argues that, unlike South Africa, shale gas fracking developed in the US, where there was already a well-developed and mature oil and gas industry, with specialised drilling expertise and a knowledge of the geology.- all the technology coming will be advanced and improved.

when i read the article it was clear that the WWF has no clue what they are talking about and they have no arguement, the fact is the gas companies are all about profit and if its not viable then they wont go ahead with it, that is all i was saying, for the WWF to make a statement like that based on assumptions makes them look stupid.

 

[Nod]

On the exploration process from this article:

While Falcon and its partners would ultimately want to frack as part of exploring for shale gas in the Karoo Basin, the first three years would be focused on obtaining information on underground shale layers by planting a kilogram of dynamite in a 5-metre deep hole every 50 metres for 1000 km and measuring the underground sound waves.

Government had given shale gas applicants like Falcon, Bundu and Shell a chance to review and update their 2011 Environmental Management Programme (EMPr) because of “deep seated concerns expressed by interested and affected persons”.

So after four years of complete silence, Falcon had given interested and affect parties 30 days to comment on its exploration plans, with the aim of obtaining an exploration licence.

Rabie Gericke, the borehole and pump repair man in town, pointed at one of the red seismic survey lines just under Aberdeen on the rather confusing SRK map.

“That line? The west-east line you see on this map? That’s where Aberdeen’s water comes from. I know someone whose borehole stopped running after people using explosives to test for uranium.

“Anything happens there, this town is without water. And then what? Who is going to help us then?”
Pieter Jordaan, Aberdeen, Karoo

Landowner Pieter Jordaan stood up to say:

“You tell us that fracking may only happen in the future. Is that supposed to make us feel better?

“We are not idiots, and we are not happy with this. Where will the precise lines for the surveys be? If things go wrong, who will compensate and who will handle claims?”

“This is just the easy stuff, the paperwork. When you people actually come to frack, what will happen? You can’t even get the easy stuff right.

It emerged that the studies mentioned in the EMP were ‘desktop studies’. In other words, existing literature had been used for information.

No one from Falcon or SRK or Chevron had actually visited the Karoo, taken samples of soil, or surveyed plants, ancient rock etchings or rare animals.

“Where did you get your information?” asked Pieter Jordaan. “Your groundwater studies could be 40 years old for all we know. You can’t say. Maybe they were studies done before centre pivots began being used for crops.”

They seemed to assume the Karoo was flat and easy to traverse.

“Seismic data acquisition activities will move along rapidly (up to 10km a day) and direct impacts will therefore be of very short duration,” SRK wrote in the EMP executive summary.

If they are right, this means they will be exploding up to 200kg of dynamite a day.

What damage does a kilogram of dynamite cause? Danelle Fourie of SRK recommended googling YouTube videos of dynamite explosions.

Time and time again, locals raised the issue of fracking, despite SRK’s attempts to keep talk focused on seismic surveying.

“You can’t talk about this exploration and not talk about fracking,” protested one man. “The one leads to the other.”

The companies that may perform the exploration cannot with any certainty provide information where they want to explore. They have no idea on the impact and they have not done any physical studies to determine where they should be exploring, and gather local information about water supply, etc. Fracking might be a "mature" process with manageable risks, but if it gets implemented the same as the exploration part, then the Karoo is in for a lot of hurt.

 

[jansdejager]

.

The wwf is merely pointing out that we cannot expect anything in line with the U.S. Gas boom locally. If these points can be addressed, they still detract from a real economic boost.

The fact is that if you've been to these places where they want to explore for gas, there are existing infrastructure already. This is the major reason why they want to go there. The real abandoned areas where economic development could be beneficial, are too remote and underdeveloped to attract attention.

 

[3WA]

Nobody brought up exploration here except you. Which make this a very poor attempt at trolling the discussion into a completely different direction.

The wwf is merely pointing out that we cannot expect anything in line with the U.S. Gas boom locally.

How can the WWF possibly know that the South African resource is not comparable to the US resource if there is no exploration data? Do you have exploration data that you're hiding from the rest of us? Have you drilled a borehole and measured gas emissions from target rocks? What were the values? What is the size of the gas resource?

If you and the WWF cannot answer these questions, then you should shut up.

 

[jansdejager]

How can the WWF possibly know that the South African resource is not comparable to the US resource if there is no exploration data? Do you have exploration data that you're hiding from the rest of us? Have you drilled a borehole and measured gas emissions from target rocks? What were the values? What is the size of the gas resource?

If you and the WWF cannot answer these questions, then you should shut up.

I happen to live in an area that borders the Karoo and water is a critical resource here, despite extensive development. I will not just shut up while you sit somewhere on an tapped out asbestos mine, hellbent on making life as miserable as it is where you are. Mining has never enriched any place ever in the history of mankind. Carletonville is a dump the last time I checked, and their resources are not even such a flash in the pan as shale gas.

And to answer you question, the data exists because there were drilling done nationwide during the Apartheid sanctions era, and those holes were deemed unviable to develop.

 

[3WA]

I happen to live in an area that borders the Karoo and water is a critical resource here, despite extensive development. I will not just shut up while you sit somewhere on an tapped out asbestos mine, hellbent on making life as miserable as it is where you are. Mining has never enriched any place ever in the history of mankind. Carletonville is a dump the last time I checked, and their resources are not even such a flash in the pan as shale gas.

And to answer you question, the data exists because there were drilling done nationwide during the Apartheid sanctions era, and those holes were deemed unviable to develop.

The Soekor data that you refer to did not include measurements of the quantity of gas emitted - it only included chemical analysis of the gas, which does not tell the full picture as it cannot be used to estimate resource size. Soekor didn't take quantitative measurements as shale gas technology wasn't in their plans at the time they drilled those boreholes. Also, remember, the Soekor holes were deemed unviable when the oil price was much lower than it is today (even adjusted for inflation and OPEC interference). As the oil price goes up, the unviable becomes viable.

Do you genuinely think that resource exploitation (what you refer to as mining) has never enriched any place ever? To counter this, without intending to draw any comparison to future South African scenarios, I will point to Norway and Saudi Arabia. Both countries have built up immense cash reserves from their exploitation of hydrocarbons.

Do you currently use electricity from Eskom? If so, do you feel responsible for water pollution in coal-mining areas like Ermelo and Carolina?

 

[jansdejager]

?

I did not write history, and my family and ancestors have never been interested in any sort of mining. Maybe they were excluded on purpose. I am not in charge of decisions this country makes, but I am perfectly within my rights to say: fracking is not economically viable for South Africa. I do not believe it will ever happen. And when it collapses under its own weight, I will be the one to say: "I told you so, ****nut."

 

[The_Assimilator]

Royal Dutch Shell is pulling back from its shale projects in South Africa due to lower energy prices, its country manager said on Monday.

"The reason to go to a low cost holding position... is as a result of a difficult period for world (prices)," Shell South Africa chairperson Bonang Mohale told Johannesburg station Talk Radio 702.

http://www.fin24.com/Economy/Oil-dive-puts-paid-to-Shells-fracking-plans-20150316

 

[grok]

Considering that it is the same thing in other countries, what influence would the DA have had? What about your old Nats?

You must have a miserable existence...wake up late because phone time was incorrect....bloody cANCer....drive to work, traffic jam....bloody cANCer, can't find parking ...bloody corrupt cANCer taking all the spots for their buddies, dont get paid enough...bloody cANCer taking all jobs, bloody AA, BEE....
...the whole day grumbling about the cANCer ruining your life, but not doing anything to improve the country...here's a tip, its not going to get better with your grumbling, just top yourself already.

How's the air down there in your head-in-sand position?

The ANC is stuffing up, wasting your money, but lets not say anything in case someone else is tired of hearing it.