Freedom from racism

xtermin8or said:
Mbeki was showing that even after all these years, racism against blacks still exists, and that we have to fight against it
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Mbeki made a serious misstep, or more accurately, his speech writer did: he made out like the only type of racism is whites against blacks.
 
icyrus said:
Ah but the legislation doesn't address who is advantaged and who isn't - it treats the situation of a poor white and a rich well connected black the same as it does a rich white and a poor black. In essence its not about empowering the disadvantaged but about empowering blacks. Race race race. Hmm...
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Hmm PEE sounds like a good idea. Poor Econominc Empowerment. But then the elite, be they black or white wouldn't benefit and pocket the gold.

So no, that won't happen.

BTW, I am hereby the first to coin the term PEE. :D
 
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xtermin8or please respond to the following:

Does everything need to be made up by their national census statistics?

Should the Springboks be made up of 8 women and 7 men, proportionately by their races?
 
Bageloo said:
Do not individualise the concept. AA is about empowering previously disadvantaged groups. Blacks/women/disabled people as groups are still under represented in many spheres of the economy. Whites are still overly represented as a group. What you are refering to is individuals that deviate from the norm. Do you now get this or must I draw pictures?
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Oh enlightened and all-knowledgeable one please impart this fantastic knowledge you possess on to us lowly folks.

So is the goal equality and prosperity for everyone? If it is why narrow it down to just broad groups such as blacks? Or the non-black disadvantaged people not worthy of government help?
 
Bageloo said:
Do not individualise the concept. AA is about empowering previously disadvantaged groups. Blacks/women/disabled people as groups are still under represented in many spheres of the economy. Whites are still overly represented as a group. What you are refering to is individuals that deviate from the norm. Do you now get this or must I draw pictures?
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So as long as a company is made up of purely white women, it would be all OK?
 
You know what is sad. That our president would rather denounce and cry out a certain segment of the population he rules over as racists, and yet will keep a deathly silence about our neighbour up north which is run by a dictator. Maybe it because he is black, and thats the african way. I will now dub thee africanism, where everything black is inherently good and pure, and all else is tolerated as an irritation
 
icyrus said:
Oh enlightened and all-knowledgeable one please impart this fantastic knowledge you possess on to us lowly folks.

So is the goal equality and prosperity for everyone? If it is why narrow it down to just broad groups such as blacks? Or the non-black disadvantaged people not worthy of government help?
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Firstly, everyone qualifies for governement help in terms of all the free government services.
Seceondly, no it does not narrow it down to blacks. I narrows it down to blacks, women, disabled people. These are the groups that currently do not enjoy equal representation. If you are employed start by looking at your management at work. The chance are they are white abled males and that's the most previleged group.
 
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Bageloo said:
Firstly, everyone qualifies for governement help in terms of all the free government services.
Seceondly, no it does not narrow it down to blacks. I narrows it down to blacks, women, disabled people. These are the groups that currently do not enjoy equal representation. If you are employed start by looking at your management at work. The chance are they are white abled males and that's the most previleged group.
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Thats a dodge. Take this theoretical example:

If there are 2 people who grew up in the same neighborhood, attended the same schools and got the same level of qualifications are now apply for the same job. They are practically identical in every aspect except one is black and the other is coloured. Which one scores higher on the BEE scorecard and which one is therefor more likely to be hired?
 
supersunbird said:
xtermin8or please respond to the following:

Does everything need to be made up by their national census statistics?

Should the Springboks be made up of 8 women and 7 men, proportionately by their races?
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If women feel they are capable of playing and want to play Rugby in a mixed team, then yes, they should be given an equal opportunity to play. Since they have been disadvantaged as far as those opportunities are concerned, they should receive preference
 
The parking bays, restaurant, blind bus driver and 4 yr old wanting to fly a passenger jet liner are all quite understandable, how this somehow justifies or explains away policy that effectively discriminates based on race an gender is still up in the air though.

Racism is a belief in the superiority of one race over others

AA and BEE is therefore not racist - as it does not set out that one race is superior than any other=
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So then questioning or criticising these policies does not in fact automatically make one a racist then, just anti distinguishing.

Appratheid discriminated against non whites. That was bad, but now the reverse is okay, as long as its 'fair' and just as long as you call it distinguishing. Absurd.
The aim of BEE AA and EE was never to level the playing field, it is to slant it the other way.

As long as these policies exist, there will never be racial harmony in our wonderful country.
 
Sneeky said:
The parking bays, restaurant, blind bus driver and 4 yr old wanting to fly a passenger jet liner are all quite understandable, how this somehow justifies or explains away policy that effectively discriminates based on race an gender is still up in the air though.


So then questioning or criticising these policies does not in fact automatically make one a racist then, just anti distinguishing.

Appratheid discriminated against non whites. That was bad, but now the reverse is okay, as long as its 'fair' and just as long as you call it distinguishing. Absurd.
The aim of BEE AA and EE was never to level the playing field, it is to slant it the other way.

As long as these policies exist, there will never be racial harmony in our wonderful country.
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Apartheid was based on a belief that whites are superior, show me where BEE and AA propose the same type of belief structure
 
I agree with you extermin8or, however you can play on words all you like, the bottom line is that apartheid discriminated against non whites, irrespective of the justification (the belief that whites were superior) and the reverse is in fact law today as long as it is done fairly, which is a very broad and unchecked limitation.
We can argue the degree ad nauseum, but that is the truth.
 
Equity legislation in no way talks to the superiority of any race group over another, all it does is set the scene for equitable employment opportunity in the workplace, now I have shown that this has not been to the detriment of the white population in the country, I have not seen any argument to the contrary - now please try to understand this, if you say something is racist, it does not mean it is
 
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