Freedom from racism

[Pitbull]

This is the same story as the Investec 1

Bwana pls link the two... Yet another White racism on Blacks this is getting so old ! And then to have two of the same threads is a contradiction to the rules

 

[Nod]

Apartheid was based on a belief that whites are superior, show me where BEE and AA propose the same type of belief structure

Apartheid's only purpose, was to keep people separate. Thats what the word mean. It did not imply that whites where superior, only that they wanted to be left alone. This however does not justify any of the wrong doings, simply trying to clarify what the original intent was, IMO.

 

[icyrus]

Equity legislation in no way talks to the superiority of any race group over another, all it does is set the scene for equitable employment opportunity in the workplace, now I have shown that this has not been to the detriment of the white population in the country, I have not seen any argument to the contrary - now please try to understand this, if you say something is racist, it does not mean it is

Come now! you have been given examples of how the legislation discriminates by race. Perhaps you just do not want to look.

 

[xtermin8or]

Apartheid's only purpose, was to keep people separate. Thats what the word mean. It did not imply that whites where superior, only that they wanted to be left alone. This however does not justify any of the wrong doings, simply trying to clarify what the original intent was, IMO.

Apartheid consisted of numerous laws that allowed the ruling white minority in South Africa to segregate, exploit and terrorize the vast majority. In white-ruled South Africa, black people were denied basic human rights and political rights. Their labour was exploited, their lives segregated.

Under Apartheid, racist beliefs were enshrined in law and any criticism of the law was suppressed. Apartheid was racism made law. It was a system dictated in the minutest detail as to how and where the large black majority would live, work and die.

Who were the Broederbond, and did they not have ideas of white supremacy ? come on, you can not say that Apartheid and racism are seperate

 

[xtermin8or]

Come now! you have been given examples of how the legislation discriminates by race. Perhaps you just do not want to look.

Off course it discriminates by race, that is the purpose of the legislation, but it is fair discrimination.

 

[Bageloo]

Apartheid's only purpose, was to keep people separate. Thats what the word mean. It did not imply that whites where superior, only that they wanted to be left alone. This however does not justify any of the wrong doings, simply trying to clarify what the original intent was, IMO.

You can only fool those that did not live through apartheid.

" When I have control of "Native" education, I will reform it so that the "Natives" will be taught from childhood to realize that equality with Europeans is not for them." (1953)

Guess who said these famous words ? The Architect of Apartheid, HF Verwoed

 

[Sneeky]

Equity legislation in no way talks to the superiority of any race group over another, all it does is set the scene for equitable employment opportunity in the workplace, now I have shown that this has not been to the detriment of the white population in the country, I have not seen any argument to the contrary - now please try to understand this, if you say something is racist, it does not mean it is

By the purist definition that you provide then not racist, I concede.
What do we call this race based discrimination under the auspices of BEE, EE and AA.
In the case of the example I have provided it is certainly not fair, I have never seen a black business lose contracts because they have no other race representation within their orginisation, have you?

 

[xtermin8or]

By the purist definition that you provide then not racist, I concede.
What do we call this race based discrimination under the auspices of BEE, EE and AA.
In the case of the example I have provided it is certainly not fair, I have never seen a black business loose contracts because they have no other race representation within their orginisation, have you?

By your thinking then, white business would be losing clients/contracts daily, and would so be forced to close down, but we know that the majority wealth in the private sector is in white hands, so these businesses are not closing down. What is most likely happening is that while the very few black owned/controlled business gets contracts, so do the majority of white owned and controlled business.

 

[RichardP]

So as long as a company is made up of purely white women, it would be all OK?

AFAIK, the Affirmative action doesn't dictate race... "previously disadvantaged' .. this applies to males wanting to be typists or receptionists and women working underground in the gold/coal mines. AA also emcompasses people with disabilities being overlooked by employers.

Its being used 100% incorrectly - The new question would be 'Who is more disadvantaged'? a black person from the squatter camps or a black person in a home for the disabled.

 

[xtermin8or]

Firstly a thank you to BobbyMac for pointing this out to me, the United Nations Convention on the Elimination of All forms of Racial Discrimination says this about racism

In this Convention, the term "racial discrimination" shall mean any distinction, exclusion, restriction or preference based on race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin which has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life.

It goes on to say

States Parties shall, when the circumstances so warrant, take, in the social, economic, cultural and other fields, special and concrete measures to ensure the adequate development and protection of certain racial groups or individuals belonging to them, for the purpose of guaranteeing them the full and equal enjoyment of human rights and fundamental freedoms. These measures shall in no case entail as a consequence the maintenance of unequal or separate rights for different racial groups after the objectives for which they were taken have been achieved.

 

[RichardP]

States Parties shall, when the circumstances so warrant, take, in the social, economic, cultural and other fields, special and concrete measures to ensure the adequate development and protection of certain racial groups or individuals belonging to them, for the purpose of guaranteeing them the full and equal enjoyment of human rights and fundamental freedoms. These measures shall in no case entail as a consequence the maintenance of unequal or separate rights for different racial groups after the objectives for which they were taken have been achieved.

Thanks xtermin8or

and the AA/BEE sunset clause is where? .. You cant ACHIEVE anything without a set goal in a timeframe.
One of Moores laws (think it was Moore) "A task will allways take 100% of the allocated time" -

 

[Sneeky]

Confusing corporates with the small operators and small operators are losing business daily because of BEE. Big business wont close down, the little guys suffer.
re big business I have said in this post that I believe the corporates and listed companies have to get their profile in order and there is a mad scramble to do so. Finding the skills, retention, inservice trainess etc. It is funny to see to what lengths they go to to retain the person.
The problem is that this policy goes right through the orginisation to all aspects including buying and contracting. This is where the little guys get knobbed.

 

[xtermin8or]

A sunset clause does not have to included in the legislation, but I would hope that in time, once the playing fields have been levelled, that the Equity Laws will be repealed

 

[RichardP]

A sunset clause does not have to included in the legislation, but I would hope that in time, once the playing fields have been levelled, that the Equity Laws will be repealed

Legislation doesnt require anything... but the ministers in charge dont have a clue on the progress of AA or BEE.

Does your boss say "Xterminator, please do a graph on XYZ, and I need it err... when youre finished"? Humans are deadline driven ... and nothing is done until the axe starts coming out. Companies need to transform, but to transform, that requires a 'Timeframe' Look at the management of AA and BEE .. companies cant change their thinking if the Government cant even set the Goal-posts

 

[Skeptik]

Legislation doesnt require anything... but the ministers in charge dont have a clue on the progress of AA or BEE.

Does your boss say "Xterminator, please do a graph on XYZ, and I need it err... when youre finished"? Humans are deadline driven ... and nothing is done until the axe starts coming out. Companies need to transform, but to transform, that requires a 'Timeframe' Look at the management of AA and BEE .. companies cant change their thinking if the Government cant even set the Goal-posts

It seems when a stadium needs to be built, then all stops are pulled out and timescales agreed. When it comes to something that wins ANC support by giving an advantage to their voters, they cannot commit to an end date. African time and African logic again.

 

[Bageloo]

Legislation doesnt require anything... but the ministers in charge dont have a clue on the progress of AA or BEE.

Does your boss say "Xterminator, please do a graph on XYZ, and I need it err... when youre finished"? Humans are deadline driven ... and nothing is done until the axe starts coming out. Companies need to transform, but to transform, that requires a 'Timeframe' Look at the management of AA and BEE .. companies cant change their thinking if the Government cant even set the Goal-posts

Government has set the goal post, alright. Companies can take up to five years to realise their targets as set out in their initial EE plan.

 

[RichardP]

Government has set the goal post, alright. Companies can take up to five years to realise their targets as set out in their initial EE plan.

The 5 year target is part of a plan... after 5 years? what happens? .. extended another 5.. and another 5? Looks like playing a game of football with no timer.... "Play soccer until we win" is the kind of thinking