Fresh lvl 80 rogue advice please

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BacchusZA

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So, I gave into temptation and renewed my WoW subs - curse the lure of a pretty girl saying she misses chatting with you in-game - and over the last 2-3 days managed to get my rogue up to 80, whereupon I promptly respecced her to combat-swords and started running instances with her.
So far I'm enjoying the rogue, but my dps sucks big time, as in around 1500dps average kind of sucks. Now I know the gear I have atm is utter crap, and I'll be farming badges just as fast as I can to improve that. Even with the gear I have I have an idea I should be getting better performance out of her than I am right now, so any suggestions as to what I can try would be greatly appreciated.

Here's her armoury link...
http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Sylvanas&cn=Aerrys
 
Thanks for the response Pitbull, I'll give that spec a go & see how it works out :)
 
No spec is going to rescue your dps in Heroics/5mans.

Both combat spec and mutilate spec excel at single target dps. Whilst combat have some tools to make aoe better, its mostly for up to 2 mobs only with blade flurry.

The real trick is, on trash just spam Fan of Knives while auto attacking your main target. I usually tricks to the tank to ensure I don't die (sometimes to hunters/dks if I dislike them, got a few killed this way already), then finish the last ones of with normal single target attacks. I do this on both pve specs. Then once you get to a boss, go ape sh*t on the boss with your normal rotation.
 
Combat is way more AOE friendly than Mutilate, and no, its not just limited to Blade Flurry on 2 targets. You also get Killing Spree, which when used with Blade Flurry, delivers a chunky boost to DPS. While you might argue that killing spree is not technically an “aoe” ability, it hits multiple targets quickly or one target a lot! In 5 mans, Combat will deliver the most DPS because you can typically access so many more abilities to boost DPS on demand. Even on bosses, hit blade flurry for the speed boost. Hit killing spree whenever its up. Use Adrenaline rush whenever its up. If you are in a situation with a lot of mobs and you want to have huge epeen stats, hit Adrenaline Rush and then spam Fan of Knives while single targeting another mob. Very importantly, you never ever let Slice and Dice drop for more than a second. These are the basics. At lower gear levels you might see some benefit from Rupture, so try and factor it into your rotation (i.e. keep it up as much as possible without letting SND drop) and see how it compares to just SS/Evi/SND rotation. In 5 mans, Mutilate is a poor performer because you generally focus on one target (no KS, no AR, no BF) and things die before you've had the chance to get going.

Rogues are dependant a great deal on buffs. If you have a poor group makeup and your gear is unenchanted you will feel it and see it in the results. Elixirs and food are all important, and really cheap/easily accessible – if you are seriously worried about your DPS performance you need to take this stuff seriously. You must understand which gems will give you the best results and where you can afford to drop a set bonus or whatever – once you get over the basics get yourself a spreadsheet that can help.

So my recommendation to you are to investigate the specs that are available and pick the one that you have the best gear for. Start at shadowpanther.net You should understand which stats benefit which spec the most. Example: Armor Penetration. How much does this benefit a Mutilate spec? Find out. As a start, its imperative that you are Expertise capped. If you are not, you will have significant dps loss. Until you are Expertise capped, no other stat will matter as much as this one (I haven’t checked your armory so I cant tell where you are at on this). Hit rating is still important especially if its below 300 and at some points, again dependant on gear and spec etc, hit will benefit you more than other stats. A spreadsheet will help you identify where this is true.

The rogue class is fun. I currently play Mutilate and on single-target raid bosses can hit over 10,000dps using 3 or 4 buttons – ridiculous. Most of that damage is still all physical damage (with a large poison contribution!), so a) getting a clean hit b) hitting hard and c) hitting often are the keys. Maximize and balance in those areas and you will see improvement. My favorite spec is Combat though!
 
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Heh, sure I left out Killing spree, just shows you how long ago I've played the spec. In heroics nowadays though, any spec really goes. Stuff dies so fast that you might as well just spam Fan of Knives and still do the same without really thinking about it. However, your advice is solid :)
 
Thanks for the suggestions guys, it's certainly helping and I'm up to around 2.2k overall in instances, peaking upwards of 2.8-3k on some bosses. Buffs definately help a lot though - <3 the DK agi buff, that makes a noticeable difference. I've also upgraded the gear some, about to get my 4th badge T9 item - I've gone from GS2200 to around GS3700 in the last 3 days, which is helping.

So far as stats go, I'm sitting at (unbuffed) :
AP 3185
Hit 379 (think I need 1 more point there for yellow cap)
ArP 6.79% (gemming for that now)
Crit 24.7% (gemming for that too)
and Expertise 38 (I think I'm over there, from what I've read).

I still need some big upgrades though, trinkets, rings, neck & especially weapons, but I'll be starting on the ICC 5man content soon I'm hoping, so that'll hopefully just be a matter of time.
 
BacchusZA said:
Thanks for the suggestions guys, it's certainly helping and I'm up to around 2.2k overall in instances, peaking upwards of 2.8-3k on some bosses. Buffs definately help a lot though - <3 the DK agi buff, that makes a noticeable difference. I've also upgraded the gear some, about to get my 4th badge T9 item - I've gone from GS2200 to around GS3700 in the last 3 days, which is helping.

So far as stats go, I'm sitting at (unbuffed) :
AP 3185
Hit 379 (think I need 1 more point there for yellow cap)
ArP 6.79% (gemming for that now)
Crit 24.7% (gemming for that too)
and Expertise 38 (I think I'm over there, from what I've read).

I still need some big upgrades though, trinkets, rings, neck & especially weapons, but I'll be starting on the ICC 5man content soon I'm hoping, so that'll hopefully just be a matter of time.
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Things I would stack on a Rogue:

1. Hitcap.
2. Crit
3. Strengh as 1 Strengh = 2 AP but i have noticed the enchants are the same now where 15 Strengh would be a +30 AP enchant called something else. (Just makesure your Strengh = 2 AP as with other classes.)

Then it's just gear gear gear :D
 
Pitbull said:
Things I would stack on a Rogue:

1. Hitcap.
2. Crit
3. Strengh as 1 Strengh = 2 AP but i have noticed the enchants are the same now where 15 Strengh would be a +30 AP enchant called something else. (Just makesure your Strengh = 2 AP as with other classes.)

Then it's just gear gear gear :D
Click to expand...

Is this a sarcastic post? :P You dont know rogues very well. Do you even know what the hit cap is? Seven hundred something...And gemming Strength? What!? Im guessing that that post was a joke or uninformed :)

To the OP you can lose around 12 of that expertise and replace it with other stats. Before you start gemming for Arp though, you need to get a spreadsheet and make sure that it benefits you more than AP/Agi. At a certain gear level it will be the best option but my GUESS is that you arent there and would probs be better off with ap/agi.
 
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Judging by my paper doll tool-tip, it seems that 1 str = 1 ap still, so it doesn't look like that'll work I'm afraid. Crit is definately something I need lots more of though, & I'll be gemming for that wherever sockets allow, so long as I stay above expertise & yellow hit cap.

On the subject of hit, from what I can gather, getting to white hit cap is pretty much impossible, & certainly not worth doing given the huge impact on your other stats it has, or at least that's what I was reading. I'm used to my hunter, where hit is uber alles right up till cap, so this is something of a change in thinking for me, & it takes some getting used to. Is this actually the case with a rogue, where after hitting yellow cap it's better to load crit & ArP, at least for a combat build?
 
BacchusZA said:
Judging by my paper doll tool-tip, it seems that 1 str = 1 ap still, so it doesn't look like that'll work I'm afraid. Crit is definately something I need lots more of though, & I'll be gemming for that wherever sockets allow, so long as I stay above expertise & yellow hit cap.

On the subject of hit, from what I can gather, getting to white hit cap is pretty much impossible, & certainly not worth doing given the huge impact on your other stats it has, or at least that's what I was reading. I'm used to my hunter, where hit is uber alles right up till cap, so this is something of a change in thinking for me, & it takes some getting used to. Is this actually the case with a rogue, where after hitting yellow cap it's better to load crit & ArP, at least for a combat build?
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In that case then it would be AP and not Strengh on my Warrior and Druid it's 2 AP per Strengh.

If you are hit capped you don't miss anymore = More DPS
If you have Lots of AP = Bigger damage
Crit = more Double damage hits.

So use that info to build your char
 
Markd said:
Is this a sarcastic post? :P You dont know rogues very well. Do you even know what the hit cap is? Seven hundred something...And gemming Strength? What!? Im guessing that that post was a joke or uninformed :)

To the OP you can lose around 12 of that expertise and replace it with other stats. Before you start gemming for Arp though, you need to get a spreadsheet and make sure that it benefits you more than AP/Agi. At a certain gear level it will be the best option but my GUESS is that you arent there and would probs be better off with ap/agi.
Click to expand...

Maybe re-read it again ;) I said he should check it. As on My Druid and Warrior it's 2 AP for 1 Strengh. i played a Rogue about 2 years ago and it's still stuck on level 72 :o I raided with him in TBC, but honestly know jack all about rogues in WoTLK.
 
also 8agi & 4 mana gems in your belt :wtf: to get your expertise stat which you are capped for. No man. Never ever gem that nonsense. Replace with Agi/AP.
 
BacchusZA said:
Judging by my paper doll tool-tip, it seems that 1 str = 1 ap still, so it doesn't look like that'll work I'm afraid. Crit is definately something I need lots more of though, & I'll be gemming for that wherever sockets allow, so long as I stay above expertise & yellow hit cap.

On the subject of hit, from what I can gather, getting to white hit cap is pretty much impossible, & certainly not worth doing given the huge impact on your other stats it has, or at least that's what I was reading. I'm used to my hunter, where hit is uber alles right up till cap, so this is something of a change in thinking for me, & it takes some getting used to. Is this actually the case with a rogue, where after hitting yellow cap it's better to load crit & ArP, at least for a combat build?
Click to expand...

www.elitistjerks.com

The only website you will ever need for stats and build questions :)
 
This is what I've been basing my figures off, from the WoW.com website.

To summarize, hit and expertise ratings are very important until you reach a few key milestones, after which the pure damage options like Agility and Attack Power become more attractive.

The key is to be over 99 hit rating (the Yellow Hit Cap - YHC) but under 315 hit rating (the Poison Hit Cap - PHC) and to never be over 214 expertise rating (the Expertise Cap - EC)
Click to expand...

I've just seen it's about a year old though, so within the 3.** patch series, but I'll try to find something a little more recent all the same just to be on the safe side. I read something similar on EJ, & I'm pretty sure that was at least as recent as 3.3, so it sounds fairly current. It has something to do with crit-capping as I understand it.
 
Markd said:
also 8agi & 4 mana gems in your belt :wtf: to get your expertise stat which you are capped for. No man. Never ever gem that nonsense. Replace with Agi/AP.
Click to expand...

HAHA thanks for pointing that out, I must have clicked the wrong damn thing on the AH when I bought those. Trust me, I know enough to know rogues haven't much use for mana at all :p
 
On a rogue,

1 agi = 2 AP
1 str = 1 AP
So instead of str you just jump to agi and get AP+crit/dodge out of it.

On a warrior and pala, and I assume DK,
1 agi = 0 AP
1 str = 1 maybe 2 AP (think its 2) and some block/parry too, depending on spec ofc.

You ideally want to be at +-300 hit on a rogue, at which point you stop gemming for that. Then depending on your spec and other stats, armpen/haste. I've seen mutilate rogue gem "stark ametrine" which is 20ap + 10 haste in their yellow slots, however this is when you get to the higher rated items.
 
I'm still amazed that people who have no clue or haven't played a class in ages still go and try give advice, especially without looking the info up beforehand.

I've never played a rogue but even I know that they gem for Agility, Attack Power or even Armor Penetration at some high gear levels, but definitely not Strength. The usual give away is to look at what stats their gear has on it; ever seen Strength on rogue gear? Didn't think so...

Anyhow, please be careful before giving someone advice and make sure you aren't talking utter rubbish.
 
Dont expect much in 5 mans, I have 5200 GS and still struggle to see 2k dps in 5mans, but wait for a boss then the bulls*%t stops.

VOA 10 and 25 I constantly top 7.5 - 8k on Toravon, always ontop of the performance vs. gs list. Mutilate FTW.

You should be gemming for AP, Crit and haste, in that order, you'll get hit/ag from your gear easily enough. Bebimba hasnt let me down regarding gems and enchants.

http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Sylvanas&cn=Ginjaninja
 
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