How do you know that you are talking rubbish ? You express an opinion. If its wrong, someone will correct you. Thats how people learn. The contribution that this thread needed from you was simply to point out that the advice is incorrect and then explain why. Why is that so difficult and why do you have to be an ****** about it ?
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Fresh lvl 80 rogue advice please
- Thread starter BacchusZA
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How do you know that you are talking rubbish ? You express an opinion. If its wrong, someone will correct you. Thats how people learn. The contribution that this thread needed from you was simply to point out that the advice is incorrect and then explain why. Why is that so difficult and why do you have to be an ****** about it ?
Pornolio
Expert Member
Heya Zippy 
I think the message Cynicster was just trying to convey, was that if people come here looking for advice / help, it's kinda pointless posting information if you dont know, or are unsure of... If you dont know the answer to the question, the logical thing to do is either :
A - Go to EJ and go reading up... or
B - If you are not in the mood for trolling through pages of info, wait till someone with proper rogue raiding experience to post some handy information.
The biggest problem with WoW is, most of the time, every single person thinks he is a pro at his class, where in reality once you start raiding competitively at high levels, you just realise how much can be squeezed out of a class in terms of performance.
I agree with Cynicster, if you are unsure, or dont know the answer to the question, instead of guessing or posting the wrong information on a public forum, rather just read and learn... because you will not be helping the player in question asking for advice...
Imagine mr Nubster going fullout and gemming his rogue with strength gems hehehe... ouch !!!
I think the message Cynicster was just trying to convey, was that if people come here looking for advice / help, it's kinda pointless posting information if you dont know, or are unsure of... If you dont know the answer to the question, the logical thing to do is either :A - Go to EJ and go reading up... or
B - If you are not in the mood for trolling through pages of info, wait till someone with proper rogue raiding experience to post some handy information.
The biggest problem with WoW is, most of the time, every single person thinks he is a pro at his class, where in reality once you start raiding competitively at high levels, you just realise how much can be squeezed out of a class in terms of performance.
I agree with Cynicster, if you are unsure, or dont know the answer to the question, instead of guessing or posting the wrong information on a public forum, rather just read and learn... because you will not be helping the player in question asking for advice...
Imagine mr Nubster going fullout and gemming his rogue with strength gems hehehe... ouch !!!
medraught
Well-Known Member
Having recently hit 80 myself on my rogue, the only advice I can safely give is to use RAWR (http://rawr.codeplex.com/) as a template and work from there. It'll give you an idea of specs to use, potential upgrades with best in slot advice as well as rotations. It's not perfect, but it's a starting point.
As one of my colleagues and peers mentioned though, sometimes you just have to go with gut feel on things and make up your own mind. There are plenty of tools out there that assist with enchant suggestions, gem suggestions, etc (be.imba.hu, etc) as well as in game mods like DirtyGear, GearDPS, RatingBuster, etc. Evaluate everything in terms of what you need most. If you want to just up DPS but run the risk of being a glass cannon, then tools like RAWR will tailor your upgrade and gem suggestions to match. If you tell it to increase overall rating, with added emphasis on DPS and Survivability, it'll change things around a bit. Evaluate all the advice then go with what you feel comfortable with.
Thus far, it's worked out well for me and in the few short days of playing and raiding as an 80 rogue with GS jumping from 2800 to 4000, I've rerun the tools and optimizations, etc. and I've noticed changes to suggested rotations, for example. As your character grows, so does it's DPS profile. You can rely more on some abilities and less on others. Again, work with what you're comfortable with. Try macro some of the rotations. Test them out on the dummies. See if you see a noticeable difference or not. Consider which poisons you're using, weapon speeds, etc.
This is what I've done both on my druid and on my rogue. It cuts out a lot of the guess work and it saves you wading through a bajillion theorycraft pages. Nothing stops you from doing that later though for fine tweaking but for the average joe who gets home from work and just wants to progress with the minimum of fuss and hassles, it'll do...
My 2 cents... You're welcome to disagree.
As one of my colleagues and peers mentioned though, sometimes you just have to go with gut feel on things and make up your own mind. There are plenty of tools out there that assist with enchant suggestions, gem suggestions, etc (be.imba.hu, etc) as well as in game mods like DirtyGear, GearDPS, RatingBuster, etc. Evaluate everything in terms of what you need most. If you want to just up DPS but run the risk of being a glass cannon, then tools like RAWR will tailor your upgrade and gem suggestions to match. If you tell it to increase overall rating, with added emphasis on DPS and Survivability, it'll change things around a bit. Evaluate all the advice then go with what you feel comfortable with.
Thus far, it's worked out well for me and in the few short days of playing and raiding as an 80 rogue with GS jumping from 2800 to 4000, I've rerun the tools and optimizations, etc. and I've noticed changes to suggested rotations, for example. As your character grows, so does it's DPS profile. You can rely more on some abilities and less on others. Again, work with what you're comfortable with. Try macro some of the rotations. Test them out on the dummies. See if you see a noticeable difference or not. Consider which poisons you're using, weapon speeds, etc.
This is what I've done both on my druid and on my rogue. It cuts out a lot of the guess work and it saves you wading through a bajillion theorycraft pages. Nothing stops you from doing that later though for fine tweaking but for the average joe who gets home from work and just wants to progress with the minimum of fuss and hassles, it'll do...
My 2 cents... You're welcome to disagree.
I know I wasn't talking complete rubbish because before I clicked that little "Post" button I went and checked on the info I provided, even if it was a tiny and not very comprehensive piece in this case.
I personally play a Hunter and you can ask Pornolio our resident Hunter guru that I know my class pretty darn well. Fact remains, that even when posting Hunter tips, I check my information before posting it. Pretty sure he does too.
So to get back to my point: yes this is a public forum, people try and help each other out and sometimes make mistakes. The issue though is that people are far too eager to post stuff on the forums to look knowledgeable and don't check on their facts. At the very least mention that you aren't sure of the info you posted and could be wrong. Remember that less knowledgeable players will more often than not take advice as is and not check for its validity which might result in them looking even more like a fool than before.
There's nothing more annoying that looking for information on how to improve and have to syphon through pages of useless banter before finding what you needed.
Lastly, note that I wasn't insulting anybody when I made my original post, just pointing out a fact.
PS: Proper spelling and grammar also seems to be something people forget to check on before posting. Take the time, it makes reading and understand your posts less taxing.
Who is the judge that someone who expresses an opinion on a subject in a public forum should rather shut-up ? 
The point I want to make is that if someone is trying to be helpful and are posting in good faith, why shoot them down ? If they are wrong, just point out their mistake in a civil manner. If they are being arrogant about it, sure, let them have it
The point I want to make is that if someone is trying to be helpful and are posting in good faith, why shoot them down ? If they are wrong, just point out their mistake in a civil manner. If they are being arrogant about it, sure, let them have it
Who is the judge that someone who expresses an opinion on a subject in a public forum should rather shut-up ?
The point I want to make is that if someone is trying to be helpful and are posting in good faith, why shoot them down ? If they are wrong, just point out their mistake in a civil manner. If they are being arrogant about it, sure, let them have it
Read both my posts again. I never told anyone to shut up, but merely to carefully check out their facts before posting, even if doing so in good faith to help out. You're not helping if you provide incorrect information.
Conack
Expert Member
Hate to admit it, but i agree with the Ferret. 
How do you know its incorrect, unless someone tells you ?
Conack
Expert Member
Well, the first thing i do playing any serious/competitive game is to read up about it.
If you're new to say Heroes of Newerth - you hit their forums and learn all you need to know quickly.
WoW you head over to http://www.wowwiki.com/Rogue for starters and elitistjerks.com once you know the basics and start raiding.
Common sense imho. Just googling for "Rogue gear help" / info / whichever would immediately tell you that Rogues use Agility, not Strength. Hell, even the Blizzard basic startup page mentions it
Anyway, it's besides the point. The Rogue chap got helped on the right track - thread's run it's course.
If you're new to say Heroes of Newerth - you hit their forums and learn all you need to know quickly.
WoW you head over to http://www.wowwiki.com/Rogue for starters and elitistjerks.com once you know the basics and start raiding.
Common sense imho. Just googling for "Rogue gear help" / info / whichever would immediately tell you that Rogues use Agility, not Strength. Hell, even the Blizzard basic startup page mentions it
Anyway, it's besides the point. The Rogue chap got helped on the right track - thread's run it's course.
Tinuva
The Magician
You don't need to read a website to know rogues use agility. After you created your character open the character tab and hover your mouse over the abilities in the stats pane and check the descriptions, you will quickly learn what stats gives you what.
Point taken... but!
As I've already said, if you don't check your facts before posting then you're opening yourself for a world of hurt. The Strength thing could've very easily been avoided with one simple trip to WoWWiki/Google before posting.
And that's the point I'm trying to make which you seem to be overlooking: Helping out is fine, just check your facts first!
Anyway, back to topic: See linkies in Conacks post.
VindicatoR
Well-Known Member
Summary
Rogue Pocket Guide to WOTLK : Everything you will need to know about rotations to Equivalence Points of stats.
Gemming: The only stats rogues would ever need to gem for is hit, agility, expertise, armor penetration, haste and attack power. Hit and Expertise are the most important stats(As they have an easy to reach soft cap that once you go over it all extra point are "considered" wasted stats) of the group to watch out for and decide what you will need to gem according to that. If you are short on either hit or expertise to reach the cap it would be advisable to gem for it(until you are at the soft cap) while you wait to get access to newer gear which could contain those missing stats you require and then your gem choices would be affected as well.
Hit: You should be aiming to reach the soft cap of 315(If you are not raiding etc...) which is the poison hit cap, if you plan on raiding where there will most likely be either shadow priest or boomkin(Giving the hit buff) you can get away with around 245 hit which is what a raiding rogue should generally aim for.
Expertise: The soft cap is at around 26(214 expertise rating). This is alot more important for Assassination rogues as they do not get the 10 expertise from the talents like Combat rogues do.
Item on Item Comparisons: Shadow Panther's Rogue Site
I used to use Shadow Panther just to get a quick view on which items would generally be better stat wise than the ones I currently have.
Spreadsheets: Combat and Mutilate Spreadsheets
These are excel Spreadsheets which are used to incorporate every single aspect of what type of stats/buffs you can have in a raid environment and then place EP values on items based on your current stats and estimations.
Ok enough of my useless post, most of everything you need to know is contained in the Pocket Guide.
My armory: Vindisama
Edit:
Erm... 1 agi has always given a rogue 1 AP and a bit of crit...
The EP values of 1 Agi is equal to 2 AP's that's all.
Last edited:
Tinuva
The Magician
Yeah you are right, I confused it with the part where it now gives 2 armor per 1 agi. It is indeed still 1 ap per 1 agi.
Yet more conclusive proof that one should check their facts before posting.
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Pornolio
Expert Member
Which is also one of the reasons why the EJ forums are regarded as one of the best resources out there.... posting wrong info would get you into b33333333333333333g trouble !
VindicatoR
Well-Known Member
Internet srs bizness!
Tinuva
The Magician
Big deal, point still stands that rogues use AGI over STR.