FTTH possibility - Is this basically a good deal?

[zeely]

So we had the meeting with vodacom last night and I must admit - I am *VERY* excited for this

There is a LOT of value add around the FTTH product. Its so much more than "just an internet connection"

I cannot wait until they start installing

 

[portcullis]

While you guys are running around trying to get quotes from all over the place, there's a little company in Somerset West that's been quietly cabling up complexes for the past seven years.

Here's an example of a ftth complex just down the hill from CrazyFig.

http://thevines.cape-connect.com

People, this isn't a pie in the sky. Residents have been connecting to that network since 2009.

Here's a speedtest that I just ran from a windows machine we have in one of the wiring closets.

http://www.speedtest.net/my-result/4333879309

It's sad that the likes of Constantia use a small company in Somerset West for fibre services, yet residents of Somerset West go looking elsewhere.

 

[Captain Beer]

While you guys are running around trying to get quotes from all over the place, there's a little company in Somerset West that's been quietly cabling up complexes for the past seven years.

Here's an example of a ftth complex just down the hill from CrazyFig.

http://thevines.cape-connect.com

People, this isn't a pie in the sky. Residents have been connecting to that network since 2009.

Here's a speedtest that I just ran from a windows machine we have in one of the wiring closets.

http://www.speedtest.net/my-result/4333879309

It's sad that the likes of Constantia use a small company in Somerset West for fibre services, yet residents of Somerset West go looking elsewhere.

Can you send me more info? I'm across from the new Checkers center.

Edit: I see the packages are uncapped, I used almost 200GB last month so I doubt this will work for me.

 

[portcullis]

I used almost 200GB last month so I doubt this will work for me.

Is that all?

That's what many of our wdsl 2Mb clients draw down in a month over fixed wireless.

Some of our 4Mb guys draw down between 400MB and half a terabyte.

 

[Swa]

Can you send me more info? I'm across from the new Checkers center.

Edit: I see the packages are uncapped, I used almost 200GB last month so I doubt this will work for me.

How do you figure that?

 

[Captain Beer]

Is that all?

That's what many of our wdsl 2Mb clients draw down in a month over fixed wireless.

Some of our 4Mb guys draw down between 400MB and half a terabyte.

Could you PM some more details? You guys did a site survey for me about five years ago, but there was no signal where I am. I'm desperate to ditch Telkom.

 

[Captain Beer]

How do you figure that?

Most uncapped accounts have a ****ty AUP. Or they're shaped to hell.

 

[zeely]

While you guys are running around trying to get quotes from all over the place, there's a little company in Somerset West that's been quietly cabling up complexes for the past seven years.

Here's an example of a ftth complex just down the hill from CrazyFig.

http://thevines.cape-connect.com

People, this isn't a pie in the sky. Residents have been connecting to that network since 2009.

Here's a speedtest that I just ran from a windows machine we have in one of the wiring closets.

http://www.speedtest.net/my-result/4333879309

It's sad that the likes of Constantia use a small company in Somerset West for fibre services, yet residents of Somerset West go looking elsewhere.

Eben, I have been asking you for figures to supply and install fibre in High Riding since november last year. I'm still waiting for any form of figures from you.

We had a brief chat on the phone the other day and you indicated that just setting up carrier grade wireless backhaul would be hundreds of thousands.

I understand it is what it is, but vodacom is offering free installation and fibre backhaul to all the big estates in the area

I'd love to have a local service provider, but it seems the local guys either dont want to or are unable to provide service

 

[portcullis]

Zayin?

Last time we spoke, you had a broken arm...

I've been patiently waiting for you to tell me your body is no longer being held together by plaster of paris.

Are Vodacom really going to dig fibre all the way out to where you are? Digging inside the estate is a minor. Anyone with a couple of picks and a team of labourers can do that. In our case we set the trenching machine up, the guy starts walking backwards for a couple of days, we hook that fancy trailer you've probably seen on my FB profile, lay the cable, cover the trenches, get the fusion guys in and the job is done.

Whether you go for us (who are more expensive because we use a trenching machine, proper manholes, proper dome joints and fuse the fibre) or some moegoe with picks and a Miro fibre jointing kit, you should still be able to get 1Gb up to the front gate. I'd like to think that the way we do it will last longer than the other guys. I've seen the mess one of those moegoes has made in Kelderhof - before he was chased off site.

Getting a decent backbone in there is the problem.

Telkom wholesale aren't keen on running fibre there. Neither are DFA.

A 500Mb Dragonwave licenced wireless backhaul is going to cost in the region of R150K, with the ICASA licence fees on top of that.

We need to take that back to a point where we have fibre through to Teraco. We have fibre in four of the tall buildings on Beach Rd, Strand so that would be where we'd have to aim the thing.

Getting fibre to you from our closest point - Cnr Hazeldene Drive and old Sir Lowry's Pass Road will cost more than that just for rental of the tunnel boring machine that needs to cut under driveways and then making nicey nicey to all the land owners who's farms we'll have to cross.

You are looking at a very conservative figure of three and a half bar (half a mil per km on municipal / state land) to get fibre to your front gate (unless you can get people along the way to take service and minimise the cost proportionally). After that it's about R30K per kilometer inside the estate. Normally we'd work on a fixed amount of around R8K per house for fibre and electronics, but your houses are further apart than Constantia so a fixed amount would punish the people closest the gate and benefit the people against the N2.

 

[zeely]

Zayin?

Last time we spoke, you had a broken arm...

I've been patiently waiting for you to tell me your body is no longer being held together by plaster of paris.

Are Vodacom really going to dig fibre all the way out to where you are? Digging inside the estate is a minor. Anyone with a couple of picks and a team of labourers can do that. In our case we set the trenching machine up, the guy starts walking backwards for a couple of days, we hook that fancy trailer you've probably seen on my FB profile, lay the cable, cover the trenches, get the fusion guys in and the job is done.

Whether you go for us (who are more expensive because we use a trenching machine, proper manholes, proper dome joints and fuse the fibre) or some moegoe with picks and a Miro fibre jointing kit, you should still be able to get 1Gb up to the front gate. I'd like to think that the way we do it will last longer than the other guys. I've seen the mess one of those moegoes has made in Kelderhof - before he was chased off site.

Getting a decent backbone in there is the problem.

Telkom wholesale aren't keen on running fibre there. Neither are DFA.

A 500Mb Dragonwave licenced wireless backhaul is going to cost in the region of R150K, with the ICASA licence fees on top of that.

We need to take that back to a point where we have fibre through to Teraco. We have fibre in four of the tall buildings on Beach Rd, Strand so that would be where we'd have to aim the thing.

Getting fibre to you from our closest point - Cnr Hazeldene Drive and old Sir Lowry's Pass Road will cost more than that just for rental of the tunnel boring machine that needs to cut under driveways and then making nicey nicey to all the land owners who's farms we'll have to cross.

You are looking at a very conservative figure of three and a half bar (half a mil per km on municipal / state land) to get fibre to your front gate (unless you can get people along the way to take service and minimise the cost proportionally). After that it's about R30K per kilometer inside the estate. Normally we'd work on a fixed amount of around R8K per house for fibre and electronics, but your houses are further apart than Constantia so a fixed amount would punish the people closest the gate and benefit the people against the N2.

Ja - Vodacom are giving us a good deal. they're bringing a fibre line all the way up from telkom in main road, right up to the front gate of our estate. They're doing the same with Boskloof etc.

I've worked with you before on other network projects and I cannot fault your work ethic or quality - you guys really are top notch. If we didnt have the option of vodacom, I would without a doubt be using cape connect.

However, there is no private company that can offer even close to what vodacom is offering us.

Basically vodacom are doing a land grab. Once their fibre is in an area, its almost pointless for a second operator to try get their fibre in.

 

[portcullis]

Basically vodacom are doing a land grab. Once their fibre is in an area, its almost pointless for a second operator to try get their fibre in.

Best you get yourself some of this. You may need it in a year or two.

Vodacom are telling you stories. They are using DFA to get up to the fake pine tree opposite the Spar on Sir Lowry's Pass Rd. Basically their fibre is opposite ours.

The Boskloof / Dennehof project is supposed to be open access. We'll offer service there once the control room is linked to Teraco.

Next week, we start digging at one of the complexes that was going to be part of that scheme but pulled out to do their own thing.

I was just thinking of the big hotspot rollout we did together four years ago and realised that the site is running so well that nobody from our side has been there in two years. Have you checked the batteries lately? If not, best I send someone to check them before one of us gets a distressed call about funny smells under the bar counter. They should be reaching end of life some time soon.

 

[zeely]

Best you get yourself some of this. You may need it in a year or two.

Vodacom are telling you stories. They are using DFA to get up to the fake pine tree opposite the Spar on Sir Lowry's Pass Rd. Basically their fibre is opposite ours.

The Boskloof / Dennehof project is supposed to be open access. We'll offer service there once the control room is linked to Teraco.

Next week, we start digging at one of the complexes that was going to be part of that scheme but pulled out to do their own thing.

I was just thinking of the big hotspot rollout we did together four years ago and realised that the site is running so well that nobody from our side has been there in two years. Have you checked the batteries lately? If not, best I send someone to check them before one of us gets a distressed call about funny smells under the bar counter. They should be reaching end of life some time soon.

you should have spoken to wedderwil. I heard they spent 20bar laying their own fibre ring and they only have radio backhaul through to teraco

I dont run that site anymore - dropped them to focus more on mobile dev. Give them a call and see if you can sell them some fibre

 

[zeely]

Best you get yourself some of this. You may need it in a year or two.

Vodacom are telling you stories. They are using DFA to get up to the fake pine tree opposite the Spar on Sir Lowry's Pass Rd. Basically their fibre is opposite ours.

The Boskloof / Dennehof project is supposed to be open access. We'll offer service there once the control room is linked to Teraco.

Next week, we start digging at one of the complexes that was going to be part of that scheme but pulled out to do their own thing.

I was just thinking of the big hotspot rollout we did together four years ago and realised that the site is running so well that nobody from our side has been there in two years. Have you checked the batteries lately? If not, best I send someone to check them before one of us gets a distressed call about funny smells under the bar counter. They should be reaching end of life some time soon.

1 - fibre to the estate
Vodacom will bring their Fibre to the estate, but they will only confirm this once the Technical Site Survey has been completed and once the report comes back to Vodacom

2 - open access model
Regarding the Open Access model, Their (Vodacom's) model is different from Telkom's model

Should you have a Vodacom Fibre point in your house and you want to use MWEB or any other of the large ISPs (the list will be available when they launch commercially at the end of June)
to provide you with their Fibre service, you contact them, they bring you a new router and they plug that in
You pay once (for example MWEB) and MWEB will then pay Vodacom in the back-end for the use of the Fibre infrastructure

Vodacom does not believe in the two services being split, because if something goes wrong the one service provider will blame the other (like what is currently happening with ADSL)

I really like their open access model - it simplifies things a LOT

 

[gripen]

1 - fibre to the estate
Vodacom will bring their Fibre to the estate, but they will only confirm this once the Technical Site Survey has been completed and once the report comes back to Vodacom

2 - open access model
Regarding the Open Access model, Their (Vodacom's) model is different from Telkom's model

Should you have a Vodacom Fibre point in your house and you want to use MWEB or any other of the large ISPs (the list will be available when they launch commercially at the end of June)
to provide you with their Fibre service, you contact them, they bring you a new router and they plug that in
You pay once (for example MWEB) and MWEB will then pay Vodacom in the back-end for the use of the Fibre infrastructure

Vodacom does not believe in the two services being split, because if something goes wrong the one service provider will blame the other (like what is currently happening with ADSL)

I really like their open access model - it simplifies things a LOT

See the discussion here:
http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthread.php/695276-What-is-Open-Access?goto=newpost

Interesting info about Vodacom. In their model, will you be able to use 2 ISPs at the same time - like we can with DSL - example: Afrihost capped (small account - 40GB or something) and then Crystal Web capped or uncapped (or whatever) to take advantage of off peak rates. This flexibility should be possible for Open Access - why not? since you would be paying MORE per month.

The additional CPE is a pain but it seems most of the networks are doing that. We had/have it good with xDSL

 

[zeely]

See the discussion here:
http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthread.php/695276-What-is-Open-Access?goto=newpost

Interesting info about Vodacom. In their model, will you be able to use 2 ISPs at the same time - like we can with DSL - example: Afrihost capped (small account - 40GB or something) and then Crystal Web capped or uncapped (or whatever) to take advantage of off peak rates. This flexibility should be possible for Open Access - why not? since you would be paying MORE per month.

The additional CPE is a pain but it seems most of the networks are doing that. We had/have it good with xDSL

if each provider needs their own CPE, you'd have a difficult time using multiple accounts at once anyways.

for 99.9% of the population a single provider will be all that they need. Its only a few technically inclined users who would want multiple accounts on single line.

maybe this will change in the future?

 

[gripen]

if each provider needs their own CPE, you'd have a difficult time using multiple accounts at once anyways.

for 99.9% of the population a single provider will be all that they need. Its only a few technically inclined users who would want multiple accounts on single line.

maybe this will change in the future?

Perhaps. Though I think it is closer to 90% and also not a rational excuse really. If I was Netflix I'd be keen to deploy a service to the end user but couldn't be bothered to have to drop another CPE down. Seems silly. The CPE should be part of the "line" side i.e. GPON ONT/ONU with the bells and whistles (Wifi etc). Anyway that's just my view. Maybe I'm the 0.01%. Maybe 99.99% are happy with a single provider ripping them off and restricting the services they can subscribe to. Ignorance is bliss!

 

[zeely]

Perhaps. Though I think it is closer to 90% and also not a rational excuse really. If I was Netflix I'd be keen to deploy a service to the end user but couldn't be bothered to have to drop another CPE down. Seems silly. The CPE should be part of the "line" side i.e. GPON ONT/ONU with the bells and whistles (Wifi etc). Anyway that's just my view. Maybe I'm the 0.01%. Maybe 99.99% are happy with a single provider ripping them off and restricting the services they can subscribe to. Ignorance is bliss!

I hear you. I'm having a hard time selling this in the estate. You'd be surprised how many people are actually happy with a ****ty 4mb connection. Now try imagine them running multiple adsl accounts

 

[gripen]

I hear you. I'm having a hard time selling this in the estate. You'd be surprised how many people are actually happy with a ****ty 4mb connection. Now try imagine them running multiple adsl accounts

It's not actually about Open Access at all. It's about price. There's a reason 90% of Telkom's ADSL users stay religiously on the 2Mbps / entry level product... it's the cheapest. Only way to fix this is to eliminate that factor as they have done in Asia i.e. everyone gets 100Mbps or 1000Mbps. I personally like this idea - and let the ISP manage the rate limiting to manage their costs etc but that's a different discussion.

Has anyone raised objections about 123NET not being Open Access? I haven't see any. So if Vodacom and MTN and whoever come in with competitive pricing, people will support them - as they won't feel ripped off!

Me personally, I like the flexibility of a dumb terminal (DSL modem or whatever) and then do the routing elsewhere (Mikrotik perhaps). Again, this is a 1% requirement though.

 

[Nerfherder]

I hear you. I'm having a hard time selling this in the estate. You'd be surprised how many people are actually happy with a ****ty 4mb connection. Now try imagine them running multiple adsl accounts

You need to sell it on resale.

People are going to pay a premium to live in a village with fibre. In the UK house prices in areas with good DSL/Fiber are sky-rocketing.
Its happening here as well.

 

[portcullis]

Should you have a Vodacom Fibre point in your house and you want to use MWEB or any other of the large ISPs (the list will be available when they launch commercially at the end of June)
to provide you with their Fibre service, you contact them, they bring you a new router and they plug that in
You pay once (for example MWEB) and MWEB will then pay Vodacom in the back-end for the use of the Fibre infrastructure

Vodacom need to take some lessons from Frogfoot / Constantia project on how to run a proper open access network.

The way Constantia gets configured, you can have Cape Connect uncapped on one port of the CPE, WebAfrica capped on another, your Telkom landline on one of the two phone ports and your Cape Connect voip circuit with a normal phone on the other phone port - or run both ports into FXO cards on a voip server. Or have a dedicated port on the CPE just for sip circuits connected to a voip server. Six ports, six different providers - if you want.

This is not how it should be done.