George Floyd death

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Vorastra

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The right in a nutshell.
I look forward to you outlining a plan for a perfect system with humans in it, because humans are perfect. You can't prevent wrongful death. You can punish them for it though.
 

rietrot

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If we ever had a game playing tequila shots for every time you posted this we'd be dead in a couple of hours.

At the very least you can admit the right want to 'get in on the killing'. The actuality is that they 'got in' a very long time ago.

Yeah that's why I don't pretend to have the moral high ground.

Your mountain of dead bodies is higher.
 

Cray

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Oh no. A few people have died. Out of the HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS of interactions with police across the US every year.
Now show me where a policeman got off for killing someone without going through a court of law? Just got off scot-free. No investigation. Just killed someone, and everyone was like, eh it's OK.
This is the other thing people seem to hate.
That policeman KILLED someone and GOT AWAY with it. Then you find out they went to court and were found not guilty.
You should read up on the grand jury process, plenty of police shootings never get close to a court of law because the Grand jury generally favours the police's version of events.
 

ForceFate

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Oh no. A few people have died. Out of the HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS of interactions with police across the US every year.
Now show me where a policeman got off for killing someone without going through a court of law? Just got off scot-free. No investigation. Just killed someone, and everyone was like, eh it's OK.
This is the other thing people seem to hate.
That policeman KILLED someone and GOT AWAY with it. Then you find out they went to court and were found not guilty.
But then we go to the next step and blame the justice system for not coming out with a verdict we all wanted.
There are multiple instances where the law looked the other way

Police officers in the United States kill about 1,000 people in the line of duty each year (only four other nations allow their security forces to take so many civilian lives annually — Brazil, Venezuela, the Philippines, and Syria — all of which have much higher crime rates than our country does). According to research from Philip Stinson of Bowling Green State University, between 2005 and April 2017, a grand total of 80 American cops were charged with murder or manslaughter for killing someone on the job. Less than 30 were convicted. In other words: Over that 12-year period, American cops who killed people in a professional capacity faced legal sanction in 0.25 percent of instances. Maybe only one in 400 police killings in the United States are unjustified. But given the myriad indefensible, unpunished police killings that have come to light in recent years, this seems unlikely. And uses of excessive force that result in a person’s death are the exception. Lesser forms of needless physical abuse are ubiquitous and even less likely to result in disciplinary action.

A wide range of fortifications protect abusive police officers from legal accountability. In many cities, police unions’ collective-bargaining agreements are full of provisions impeding oversight and abetting cover-ups. An anti-snitching culture (a.k.a. the “blue wall of silence”) further inhibits investigations. Meanwhile, the Supreme Court’s “qualified-immunity” doctrine has neutered the capacity of citizens to deter abuse through civil lawsuits (more on this point in a moment).

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Moosedrool

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So when will the neo "progressive" crazies be making chess racist?
 
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Vorastra

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Maybe only one in 400 police killings in the United States are unjustified. But given the myriad indefensible, unpunished police killings that have come to light in recent years, this seems unlikely.
This is where I stopped reading. Once again, because we don't like the information, we discard it.

Legitimate question, since I can't seem to find any info comparing a bunch of different countries, how many policeman die in various countries around the world?
I ask because, we assume there are more people killed by police because the police are inherently bad (ACAB amirite guys), what if crime against police are more violent?
What I mean is, what if police in the US kill more people compared to other countries because the likelihood of police interacting with someone who is then violent is higher?
Notice I say the direct interaction between the suspect and the policeman. To clarify again, let's pretend Brazil for example might have more violent crime, but the suspects surrender to police more peacefully.
 
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thestaggy

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Thing is, there's solid evidence that Obama's reforms helped, especially the consent decrees and de-militarization.

Then Trump's AG's rolled all of it back.


Unfortunately the 2016 election cycle was pure toxicity. Each side fed in to ''radicalising'' the other and things are now fever-pitched as a consequence.
 

cerebus

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Unfortunately the 2016 election cycle was pure toxicity. Each side fed in to ''radicalising'' the other and things are now fever-pitched as a consequence.

What does the 2016 election cycle have to do with Trump's decision to rollback Obama's police reforms? If ever I've seen a lazy both-sides-ism, this is it.
 

thestaggy

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What does the 2016 election cycle have to do with Trump's decision to rollback Obama's police reforms? If ever I've seen a lazy both-sides-ism, this is it.

Read the article.

“The Obama administration and the handcuffing and oppression of police was despicable,” he told the crowd. “The first thing President Trump did when he took office was turn that around, got rid of the Holder-Loretta Lynch regime and decided to start takin— letting the cops do their job, put the handcuffs on the criminals instead of us.”

We will never know if that unshackling emboldened Derek Chauvin to murder George Floyd. But the line between the relief demanded by Kroll on behalf of Minneapolis police, and the naked assassination committed on camera by one of his officers, is quite direct. The world around us, in which the streets of every major American city are filled with protesters, is the result of Trump granting the wishes of the most retrograde police officers. They are getting what they asked for.

It was the epitome of evolutionary cultural change.

This was the context for Trump’s nightmarish claims in 2016 that cities were being overtaken by bloodshed and carnage. Whatever wisps of data he could cite to support his wild rhetoric, Trump was drawing a picture borrowed from the imaginations of resentful police who experienced Obama’s carefully drawn nudges as intolerable oppression.

As I already pointed out, 2016 was toxic and fear mongering.
 
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