George Floyd death

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There are two monuments in SA some are drooling over to 'decolonise', but the scenarios in doing so are all pearshaped.
 
Cray said:
Except that history hasn't been destroyed, a statue has and since you clearly aren't willing to concede the difference or explain why a statue is a more important a record of history than a wiki page then i kinda get the feeling you are just arguing about a catch phrase.



Do you think the Iraqi's should have kept those massive statues of Saddam Hussein, should the Russians have retained the name of Stalingrad ? We put up statues and name cities to honor people, where is the honor in someone who engaged in the slave trade, don't we have better people from that area who are more deserving?
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You'll never get it.
 
Pegasus said:
fsckwits

https://twitter.com/x/status/1269656573162504192
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Ironic. Considering that had Churchill not rallied the nation to get behind the military during the Battle of Britain, which ultimately aided the downfall of the Nazis, we'd all be speaking German over here now. All those black/mixed race protestors wouldn't even exist because people of colour would simply have been cleansed from the face of the island a very long time ago.
 
Fox News Apologizes for Showing Graphic of Stock Market Gains Which Followed the Deaths of Black Men

time.com

Fox News Apologizes for Showing Graphic of Stock Market Gains Which Followed the Deaths of Black Men

The network said that the graphic "should have never aired on television without full context"
time.com time.com

Fox News has apologized after airing a graphic showing stock market data one week after the assassination of Martin Luther King Jr., the death of George Floyd and other events that caused civil unrest. The network said that the graphic “should have never aired on television without full context.”


During a segment of Special Report with Bret Baier on Friday, Fox News and Fox Business journalist Susan Li reported that the stock market had risen to “new highs despite the nationwide protests this week. Historically, there has been a disconnect between what investors focus on and what happens across the rest of the country.”


The channel then aired a graphic which journalist Yashar Ali later shared on Twitter, along with a clip of its broadcast on Twitter. He said that the data appeared to have been pulled from articles published in the Wall Street Journal and Fortune.


“This is a horrific graphic to have put up on air. My god,” Ali wrote.
 
The Voice said:
Ironic. Considering that had Churchill not rallied the nation to get behind the military during the Battle of Britain, which ultimately aided the downfall of the Nazis, we'd all be speaking German over here now.
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There is no calculus that states, "If no Churchill, then Nazis." Churchill did not win WW2 singlehandedly.

Some other British leader would have stood up against the Nazis. And another, and another.
 
Pegasus said:
And fsckwits in Scotland

https://twitter.com/x/status/1269662676550070274
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You see, what is happening here is that they are targeting the Tories which opposed the Whigs which supported emancipation. Robert Peel crossed the political line between being Tory and being Whig. Other than being a Tory at the time, supporting pro-slavery (or the West India Lobby) I don't think he has done something particular racist, but I'm not clued up with UK politicians unless they had their hands in some war or the other.
 
Pegasus said:
not racist
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I know, Peggy, that concepts such as racism can be hard to grasp.

So I am going to help you out: suggesting, as this protester is doing, a repetition of events from 1804 Haiti, is - in fact - racist. This protester is racist.

You are welcome.
 
Cray said:
If statues = history is the best argument you can come up with then probably not.
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Your whole premise is if there's something that offends you it must be destroyed, that's pathetic.

Statue of Dingaan offends Afrikaans people due to his actions, destroy it?
Statue of Shaka offends Xhosas et al for his murderous campaigns, destroy it?
Statues & memorials of Genghis Khan, destroy them?
Statue of Ghandi, destroy it?
Statues of Stalin, Lenin, Mao, destroy them?
Buddist statues thousands of years old, destroy them because they offend your islamic beliefs?
Rename place names because a person had some bad qualities even though said person played a major part in contributing to said place?
Rename de waal drive, ignoring said persons role in building the road in the first place, it's ok because he was some ancient colonial administrator?

So which of the above are okay with you?
 
scudsucker said:
There is no calculus that states, "If no Churchill, then Nazis." Churchill did not win WW2 singlehandedly.

Some other British leader would have stood up against the Nazis. And another, and another.
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So why didn't they? Churchill was the one who stood up, not anyone else. His rhetoric, his powerful speeches, his leadership guided Great Britain to what was arguably it's greatest military triumph. Not a bad feat considering that they were entirely on the defensive and on the brink of annihilation.

You're going to sit there and look at historical facts and still deny what Churchill achieved to justify people vandalising his statue?
 
The Voice said:
You're going to sit there and look at historical facts and still deny what Churchill achieved to justify people vandalising his statue?
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I'm denying nothing of his legacy, merely pointing out that Churchill did not prevent the Nazis winning WW2 by himself, as you imply.

The Brits would have come up with another great wartime leader. It seems that that is what they are good at.
 
Once again the US is leading the world in demonstrating the truth of "diversity is strength".
 
ponder said:
Your whole premise is if there's something that offends you it must be destroyed, that's pathetic.


Statue of Dingaan offends Afrikaans people due to his actions, destroy it?
Statue of Shaka offends Xhosas et al for his murderous campaigns, destroy it?
Statues & memorials of Genghis Khan, destroy them?
Statue of Ghandi, destroy it?
Statues of Stalin, Lenin, Mao, destroy them?
Buddist statues thousands of years old, destroy them because they offend your islamic beliefs?
Rename place names because a person had some bad qualities even though said person played a major part in contributing to said place?
Rename de waal drive, ignoring said persons role in building the road in the first place, it's ok because he was some ancient colonial administrator?

So which of the above are okay with you?
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Wow, that's quite the strawman mate, please quote the part where I said that the statue offended me? I just think there must be better people from that period to honor... In my mind statues are supposed to represent heroic figures, not perfect people because no one is perfect and people have flaws

So Ghandi....all good

Churchill... a great leader

Paul Kruger.. did a lot of good things

Buddha.. no complaints

etc, etc...

But why would we want statues of genocidal madmen in public spaces (Stalin , Mao), what do you think that a statue of said person adds and what does society lose if that statue is removed?

You have used the phrase "destroying history" a few times which i still think is cheap quote that has no real meaning but for all that, did you even know the first thing about Edward Colston before today? Far from destroying history the act probably gave him more exposure than he's had in a hundred years...

As I said, some people are always going to be divisive and you can make arguments either way(especially in SA with our history) but can we at least agree that we don't need statues of mass murderers or slave traders...?
 
Techne said:
Once again the US is leading the world in demonstrating the truth of "diversity is strength".
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That's right, the whole "melting pot" idea of the USA bring a home for all should be thrown out.

First expel the English. Then the Scots and Irish. Expel the Swedes. Expel the Poles. Expel the Italians. Expel all those who come from a different culture or language.

Those "whites" who are left will be the Real Americans
 
scudsucker said:
That's right, the whole "melting pot" idea of the USA bring a home for all should be thrown out.

First expel the English. Then the Scots and Irish. Expel the Swedes. Expel the Poles. Expel the Italians. Expel all those who come from a different culture or language.

Those "whites" who are left will be the Real Americans
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You forgot to expel the "African" Americans.
 
Grant said:
You forgot to expel the "African" Americans.
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Techne (alongside several others in thread) does not appear to regard the African Americans as Americans, I did not think I'd bother him with that, just keep it simple for him.
 
Pegasus said:
Diversity is actually strength.

The riots aren't caused by that.

Watch Tucker Carlson's take on it.
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Yeah we all see how diversity is making the USA stronger and stronger. I mean ever since 1965 they have become a stronger, unified nation.
 
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