German energy giants pull plug on conventional power

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German energy giants pull plug on conventional power

Ever since Chancellor Angela Merkel announced a phase-out of nuclear energy over the next decade and pledged to generate as much as 80% of the country's electricity from renewables by 2050, big question marks have been hanging over the future of coal and gas-fired plants in Germany.

Merkel, seeking a third term in general elections on September 22, is a staunch supporter of this hugely popular policy move.

But the turnaround is depriving utilities, including market leaders RWE and E.ON, of massive profits from their atomic plants and turning their gas and coal-fired stations into loss-makers as they are sidelined by rival renewable sources of energy.

Last week, the two biggest players in the German sector unveiled steep drops in profits, and "many of our plants are operating at a loss", complained RWE's finance chief Bernhard Guenther.

Indeed, RWE announced that it would shut down a number of plants—representing combined capacity of 4 300 megawatts—in both Germany and the Netherlands. And more could follow, Guenther warned.

The networks agency that oversees such closures has received 15 such applications since the end of 2012, according to a spokesperson.

It was not immediately clear whether RWE's plants were part of the number, but Norway's Statkraft for one has also announced plans to pull the plug on two sites in Germany.

Wind and solar power priority

With political clout firmly behind renewables, priority is given in the national power grid to so-called "clean" electricity, which means that all power generated from wind turbines or solar panels is pumped into the grid, while that produced by coal and gas-fired plants is used simply to make up for any shortfalls.

Following the boom of solar power in recent years, nourished by generous subsidies, the capacity of renewable sources of energy is such that, if the wind is blowing and the sun is shining, Germany can actually do without its conventional power plants.

In the period from April to June, a number of RWE's plants were operating at less than 10% of capacity, said finance chief Guenther.

And with wholesale electricity prices at the current lows in Europe, that means substantial losses. That was the case with gas-fired plants until recently, but coal-fired generators are now barely profitable as well, he said.

Before reaching a deal in April, E.ON fought for months with the regional authorities over the fate of its gas plant in Irsching in Bavaria, which came online in 2010, but is merely just ticking over.

E.ON finally conceded to the requests of the authorities to keep it up and running, but only in return for payment.

The networks agency has warned that it is loath to approve many closures in the south of Germany.

Generation from renewables is dependent on the weather and conventional generation must make up for any shortfalls. But operators want compensation.

At the moment, E.ON's plants "are working for nothing", raged chief executive Johannes Teyssen last week, who is eyeing other closure scenarios and a possible relocation to Turkey where the group already has a solid presence.

But an industry source told Agence France-Presse that "I think it's more a threat. It would be very, very complicated and I'd be surprised if they were seriously considering such a move."

Such sabre-rattling is certainly the norm in any pre-election period. But the sector is expecting a massive re-think by the future government about the modalities of the energy turnaround.

"All the problems are known and identified. There won't be any respite for the incoming government," said Hildegard Mueller, president of the sector's BDEW federation. - AFP
I like the part "current lows" in prices. I wonder if we will see cheap power again in South Africa over the next few decades?

The Germans entertained this huge subsidy for people to install solar panels, if Government had to start a similar program here it could alleviate the power shortage at least in the day time.
 
German energy giants pull plug on conventional power


I like the part "current lows" in prices. I wonder if we will see cheap power again in South Africa over the next few decades?

The Germans entertained this huge subsidy for people to install solar panels, if Government had to start a similar program here it could alleviate the power shortage at least in the day time.

Electricity is not cheap here in Germany.

It's greener, but not cheaper.
 
Difference is here eskom is raping us.
Nothing else
Germany works for the people
All about profits

Eskom is having to compensate for almost two decades of under investment in generation and maintaince, during which the prices were below the true long term generation cost. It's now playing catch up as demand pushes capacity.
 
Electricity is not cheap here in Germany.

It's greener, but not cheaper.

The greener tag is debatable.

Wind is probably less green than nuclear, given the requirement to have 100% reserve capacity should the wind stop blowing at suppertime.

In England that 100% reserve is being met by diesel gennies.
 
That will never happen here , eventually every one that can afford solar power will be on solar power for the simple reason that ESCOM will be to expensive .
Some one has to pay for the electricity that is stolen all the time and Escom that is mismanaged so we eventually will not be able to afford conventional electricity.
Just a matter of time.
 
Eskom is having to compensate for almost two decades of under investment in generation and maintaince, during which the prices were below the true long term generation cost. It's now playing catch up as demand pushes capacity.
This is singularly the biggest reason for Eskom's dilemma and the person who signed the moratorium in the late 90's prohibiting the building of new power plants was none other than Phumzile Mlambo-Ngcuka.

The ANC signed a moratorium preventing Eskom building new capacity and for about 10 years they simply ignored Eskom's warnings that South Africa will run out of capacity by 2008 or so and when the whole bolt thing at Koeberg happened and we had rolling black outs only then did the ANC wake up and realise that despite many warnings and the probably now forgotten moratorium they signed, the country had indeed now run out of capacity, then the same old policy of trying to fix things when they are already broken.

The same old situation can be seen throughout the country, take a look at the Military installations, it looks like some of them haven't had a coat of paint since before there was still National Service in South Africa.

A self defeating African phenomena of not being able to think ahead.
 
Eskom is having to compensate for almost two decades of under investment in generation and maintaince, during which the prices were below the true long term generation cost. It's now playing catch up as demand pushes capacity.

You left out the effects of BEE .. letting qualified white people go in favour of blacks in the name of transformation changed Eskom from an efficient power company to an inefficient, top-heavy provider of employment instead.
 
You left out the effects of BEE .. letting qualified white people go in favour of blacks in the name of transformation changed Eskom from an efficient power company to an inefficient, top-heavy provider of employment instead.
I wanted to mention this, but yes our ex Vice President Phumzile Mlambo-Ngcuka signed the moratorium so that private companies could bridge Eskom's shortfall. Of course this was never given much thought at the time, because by 1998 standards our electricity was still cheap and the cost of building any type of privately owned Power Station cost unknown Billions, the start-up cost was horrendous, nobody would loan the money and the new operator when operational would still have to compete against Eskom who in 1998 did not have capacity problems, so nobody took up the gap offered by Government. I think there was one or two small operators in KZN, but they couldn't compete, the name IPSA comes to mind.
 
You left out the effects of BEE .. letting qualified white people go in favour of blacks in the name of transformation changed Eskom from an efficient power company to an inefficient, top-heavy provider of employment instead.
.. and they pay their many execs huge bonus's for being grossly incompetent
 
What do you think the price difference is between Germany and South Africa is? AFAIK, electricity is still cheaper here in SA
Hi there.

I cannot honestly answer your question in regards to what Germany charges without going in depth. I have a German friend I could ask who may be able to help.

The problem is by South African standards and in regards to what people earn here it is expensive. Taking Euros with the current exchange rate of the Rand (13.63) and extrapolating that isn't going to reflect things the way they really are.
Someone once said to me that if you want a more accurate value of a proper exchange rate of Rands to Euros you would need to use a ratio of about 4:1.
 
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Hi there.

I cannot honestly answer your question in regards to what Germany charges without going in depth. I have a German friend I could ask who may be able to help.

The problem is by South African standards and in regards to what people earn here it is expensive. Taking Euros with the current exchange rate of the Rand (13.63) and extrapolating that isn't going to reflect things the way they really are.
Someone once said to me that if you want a more accurate value of a proper exchange rate of Rands to Euros you would need to use a ratio of about 4:1.
The cost of producing energy isn't dependent on currency exchange though. You can't say producing electricity is more expensive in Germany because people earn more. Electricity is expensive to generate irrespective of where you live in the world and, as someone else pointed out, we have the added expense of increasing both capacity and distribution.
 
The cost of producing energy isn't dependent on currency exchange though. You can't say producing electricity is more expensive in Germany because people earn more. Electricity is expensive to generate irrespective of where you live in the world and, as someone else pointed out, we have the added expense of increasing both capacity and distribution.
Noted. I have been told that Germany is selling their excess capacity to neighbouring countries like the Netherlands.
 
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German energy giants pull plug on conventional power


I like the part "current lows" in prices. I wonder if we will see cheap power again in South Africa over the next few decades?

The Germans entertained this huge subsidy for people to install solar panels, if Government had to start a similar program here it could alleviate the power shortage at least in the day time.

This is very epic news. Thanks for sharing. Restores some of my faith in humanity.

Did you know, 2/3rds of the worlds solar panels have been build in the last several years? The world is adopting them at a massive rate. Huurah!
 
This is very epic news. Thanks for sharing. Restores some of my faith in humanity.

Did you know, 2/3rds of the worlds solar panels have been build in the last several years? The world is adopting them at a massive rate. Huurah!

While I'm a great fan of Solar, the problem remains storage, as the peak generation doesn't always match peak demand.

That's where Hydro comes into it's own, storing energy for peak demand.

Frankly as a planet we need to get Solar panels into orbit where they can do the most good, and find some way of transmitting the energy back to earth.
 
Difference is here eskom is raping us.
Nothing else
Germany works for the people
All about profits

I would say it goes the other way.

If you get energy from other sources you basically "printing" money, cause in the case of Eskom they still have to pay for the resources used.
 
I like Germany for this reason. That is very efficient of them in the long run. Also there are some wind turbines going up between Jbay and Humansdorp. Also some near Queenstown in the near future and I think Coega outside of PE might be seeing more. Very elegant looking things.
 
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