Getting shocked by towel rail

rh1 said:
One liners without any substance.

My installer connected a separate earth. The company is owned by a qualified electrical engineer who check everything the qualified electrician did.

He also spoke about islanding, to be honest the technical side went over my head. But I got the main point, in the case where the grid is down due to an electrician needing to some maintainence, you cannot be sending power back into the grid.
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i would like to hear his reasoning on what he stated , its allways handy to understand what people have been told and what should actually happen ,hopefully he comes back .
 
For those that want a bit more info :
Loss-of-Grid
A condition in which supply from the Network Service Provider’s Network is interrupted.
Loss-of-Grid Protection
A single or series of protection elements designed to detect a loss-of-grid condition and disconnect
the Network Service Provider’s Network from the embedded generator installation’s Network to
prevent the embedded generator from energising a portion of the Network Service Provider’s
Network.
 
deweyzeph said:
If you follow the earth wire in most residential households you will see that it splits off from the neutral wire coming in from the mains supply to the house, so most residential properties have it bonded anyway.
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Earth Neutral is usually bonded in the streetbox, yes.
You lose earth during LS, hence the need for earthing rods and earth neutral bond to kick in (usually via relay) near the inverter. If not, then the earth leakage / RCD no longer works.
My installer drove 3x 1.2m copper clad rods into the ground about 1m apart, in a line, each connected daisy chain with a thick earth wire to the earth neutral bond relay. It clicks in when grid disappears, and out again when grid is restored. I have heard of permanent bonds, but never seen it. Problem with a permanent bond is that you then have two earths, which results in other issues.
 
RonSwanson said:
Earth Neutral is usually bonded in the streetbox, yes.
You lose earth during LS, hence the need for earthing rods and earth neutral bond to kick in (usually via relay) near the inverter. If not, then the earth leakage / RCD no longer works.
My installer drove 3x 1.2m copper clad rods into the ground about 1m apart, in a line, each connected daisy chain with a thick earth wire to the earth neutral bond relay. It clicks in when grid disappears, and out again when grid is restored. I have heard of permanent bonds, but never seen it. Problem with a permanent bond is that you then have two earths, which results in other issues.
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This is super interesting. When they installed my inverter I'm not aware of any additional earth spikes. They're not on the invoice and definitely not there in reality. I need to check this out.
 
Harmonic said:
This is super interesting. When they installed my inverter I'm not aware of any additional earth spikes. They're not on the invoice and definitely not there in reality. I need to check this out.
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You are not the first to say that.
Do yourself a big favour, test your earth leakage when there's load-shedding. You can buy a tester or use a (insulated) screwdriver or use the test button. If it doesn't work, call your install electrician back and show him.
 
Username: said:
You know just enough to be dangerous and that is the most dangerous person around.

Show me a single example where an earth connection gets disconnected.

Have you ever seen an earth wire in a circuit breaker or switch?

Exactly earth never gets disconnected. It's always continuous.

The only time you will see and earth wire on a switch is a earth neutral bond. But you never ever disconnected an earth.
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I don't get it, what exactly is it @soulie said that you say is so dangerous. I think that you two are arguing the same side of the point.
 
soulie said:
hahaha ,not getting involved .if youre getting 35 v on the earth then the earth or bonding sucks
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Or there's no spike on site and Eskom Earth is severed. Seems quite obvious to me. The person touching the rail is now earth and all induction is going to ground through the person touching these things. May be faulty inverter.
 
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Username: said:
And it's illegal

ecasa.co.za

NEUTRAL EARTH BONDING CLARIFIED | ELECTRICAL CONTRACTORS ASSOCIATION (SA)

There have been many questions about whether one permanently bonds the output of an inverter and there are numerous opinions around the matter. The ECA(SA) has referred the matter to the Department of
ecasa.co.za ecasa.co.za
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What does "The ECA(SA) has referred the matter to the Department of Employment and Labour and South African National Standards for deliberation and clarification from official sources and await feedback." mean exactly?
 
Username: said:
No it's not

Earth always stays connected

You island by disconnecting live and neutral. Never earth.
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Earth and Neutral at input are the same thing on Eskom's side of your house. When disconnected (load shedding), they're not, until you bond them on site. That's an over simplification. Of course they're not the exact same thing, but they both go to ground, i.e. are bonded.
 
Username: said:
Not always in most cases not.

TNC-S yes, but most munisipale distribution systems are TNS.

Earth and neutral are bonded at the transformers secondary start point to ensure neutral and earth are at the same potential.

But on a TNS system you have and earth with and a neutral wire.

You never disconnect the earth wire. Even if you have your own earth spikes.
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Tell us what Islanding means? What happens to the Earth on Eskom side in island mode? TN-C-S or TNS...
 
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FYI. My inverter kept tripping the earth leakage when changing over.

Installed the below. Worked for me.

Why isn't this relay/option just included in the inverter?

www.bonanzatech.co.za

Grounding Box for Axpert Inverters

Grounding Box for Axpert To be used when tripping of inverter occurs.
www.bonanzatech.co.za www.bonanzatech.co.za
 
Username: said:
Read post #30 but slowly this time
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Good grief man, post 30 says nothing about where Earth goes. I'm asking where it goes to... at what point does it go to ground? On the Eskom side, or on your side?
I haven't seen anyone in here suggesting "disconnecting earth".
When islanding mode kicks in, the inverter is the supply and the municipal earth, live and neutral don't exist, hence the need to bond neutral to earth on prem.
Think of the word island and what it means.
 
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Username: said:
No it's not

Earth always stays connected

You island by disconnecting live and neutral. Never earth.

You can supplement the earth with our own mat.

You are not even allowed to make an easily removable earth connecting, like using terminals must be a strong mechanical permanent connection on earth wires and connections
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No. Why does one need a local earth during islanding if the municipal earth is still present?
 
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