Geyser timer solution for solar

[denmendez65]

So the installers are refusing to put the geyser on the inverter unless I can show them its a 1500W element or I get a bigger inverter. They said they can't issue a coc if they connect it because it's not big enough.

Thread 'Going solar and keeping the conventional geyser. '

Jan 14, 2022

So is anyone who has gone solar still running a conventional geyser? And by running I mean through the solar system and not via Eskom through non-essentials as everyone seems to want to do.

I got quotes for fitting a new solar geyser setup and also some extra work done and it all just seems quite outrageous to me when I have a perfectly working and functional geyser.

So being of the Smart home inclined notion and already having a smart switch in place I don’t see why I couldn’t simply run the geyser when the solar “activates” and set the thermostat a bit higher at 65 instead of the...

• SauRoNZA
• Replies: 251
• Forum: Eskom and Electricity: Load Shedding

https://powerforum.co.za/topic/32952-6-330w-solar-panels-and-no-ideas-on-how-to-assist-geysers-in-heating-water/page/2/

Those installers are selling you snake oil. Just read through these and see how many have 2kW+ elements on their 4.6 to 5kW inverters. The guy on Power forum (TaliaB) is an installer, and he posts a ton; not once has he mentioned element size per inverter.

It's a money grab as far as I am concerned. They will supply you their "recommended" inverter and probably tell you your cabling, etc, must be redone also for the load. It's like the trick that the plumber wanted to pull on me when I asked for my element to be changed from 3kW to 2kW; the guy said I must use Xtend PTC elements since they are compatible with inverters. My original quote went from 1.6k with installation to around 3.5k. I told them to leave my house. 5 minutes later, I kid you not, he phoned me, and he said Oh, we happen to have a 2kW element, we can install that for the original quoted price. Imagine how much money they make from gullible clients.

 

[wingnut771]

Thread 'Going solar and keeping the conventional geyser. '

Jan 14, 2022

So is anyone who has gone solar still running a conventional geyser? And by running I mean through the solar system and not via Eskom through non-essentials as everyone seems to want to do.

I got quotes for fitting a new solar geyser setup and also some extra work done and it all just seems quite outrageous to me when I have a perfectly working and functional geyser.

So being of the Smart home inclined notion and already having a smart switch in place I don’t see why I couldn’t simply run the geyser when the solar “activates” and set the thermostat a bit higher at 65 instead of the...

• SauRoNZA
• Replies: 251
• Forum: Eskom and Electricity: Load Shedding

https://powerforum.co.za/topic/32952-6-330w-solar-panels-and-no-ideas-on-how-to-assist-geysers-in-heating-water/page/2/

Those installers are selling you snake oil. Just read through these and see how many have 2kW+ elements on their 4.6 to 5kW inverters. The guy on Power forum (TaliaB) is an installer, and he posts a ton; not once has he mentioned element size per inverter.

It's a money grab as far as I am concerned. They will supply you their "recommended" inverter and probably tell you your cabling, etc, must be redone also for the load. It's like the trick that the plumber wanted to pull on me when I asked for my element to be changed from 3kW to 2kW; the guy said I must use Xtend PTC elements since they are compatible with inverters. My original quote went from 1.6k with installation to around 3.5k. I told them to leave my house. 5 minutes later, I kid you not, he phoned me, and he said Oh, we happen to have a 2kW element, we can install that for the original quoted price. Imagine how much money they make from gullible clients.

@cavedog should install 2kW himself:

 

[denmendez65]

@cavedog should install 2kW himself:
View attachment 1869898

I heard its not too difficult to do. Just a bit cramped up there. If he wants to stick to the same installer then he can do the 1.5kW and send the "proof".

This is when I started arguing with the plumber, he was pitching his element and I was pitching what I wanted . Glad he put the 2kW and not the 1kW. He didnt want to drive to ACDC to get the 1kW or find a 1.5kW (despite me calling them and telling them what I wanted 2 days before). But 2kW is perfect.

 

[wingnut771]

I heard its not too difficult to do. Just a bit cramped up there. If he wants to stick to the same installer then he can do the 1.5kW and send the "proof".

This is when I started arguing with the plumber, he was pitching his element and I was pitching what I wanted . Glad he put the 2kW and not the 1kW. He didnt want to drive to ACDC to get the 1kW or find a 1.5kW (despite me calling them and telling them what I wanted 2 days before). But 2kW is perfect.

View attachment 1869902

View attachment 1869903

This is what they wanted to rush you:



Its not difficult, there are a few saffer YT vids.

 

[denmendez65]

This is what they wanted to rush you:
View attachment 1869904


Its not difficult, there are a few saffer YT vids.

Quite a jump from a 300 rand element to 3200. Like those stupid Xtend things last 10x longer.

 

[cavedog]

Get the opinion from different installers. This sounds like Hogwash. Did they tell you the reason? Some other guy was told by an installer a 4mm2 cable cannot supply a house and he refused a COC. The guy just went to another installer and got it done. They all have different opinions and there is no SANS requirement that states you cant do that that I am aware of.

Also why 1500W? Why not 1000? 2000? How did they come to that conclusion?

Can you ask them why? 5500W > 2000W > 1500W. Put a 1500W then, then when they gone, change it to 2000W.

He said he saw my coffee machine and gaming room so he said my appliances will overload the inverter.

I know how to control my stuff I told him that but he said no. I kind off agree because we have a 3kw now. He put his clamp meter on the cable when we switched the geyser on it was pulling like 12.6A which is a bit heavy.

It's fine looks like the hailstorm also damaged my geyser. Insurance assessor approved a replacement today so I will just ask them to install a 1.5KW or maybe I can get approval for a solar geyser. Will see what the insurance says.

ref for the hailstorm I'm talking about. https://mybroadband.co.za/forum/thr...rning-thread-the-sequel.1304140/post-34143707

 

[GMAN03]

…the guy said I must use Xtend PTC elements since they are compatible with inverters.

Wow. Should have asked if they make kettles as well. Heaven forbid your inverter has to deal with a 2kW resistive load.

 

[wingnut771]

He said he saw my coffee machine and gaming room so he said my appliances will overload the inverter.

I know how to control my stuff I told him that but he said no. I kind off agree because we have a 3kw now. He put his clamp meter on the cable when we switched the geyser on it was pulling like 12.6A which is a bit heavy.

It's fine looks like the hailstorm also damaged my geyser. Insurance assessor approved a replacement today so I will just ask them to install a 1.5KW or maybe I can get approval for a solar geyser. Will see what the insurance says.

ref for the hailstorm I'm talking about. https://mybroadband.co.za/forum/thr...rning-thread-the-sequel.1304140/post-34143707

Solar geyser is a waste of money and roof real-estate. 2kW minimum, you dont want geyser to take 6 hours to warm up from cold with a 1.5kW element vs 4.5 hours with a 2kW.

 

[wingnut771]

He said he saw my coffee machine and gaming room so he said my appliances will overload the inverter.

I know how to control my stuff I told him that but he said no. I kind off agree because we have a 3kw now. He put his clamp meter on the cable when we switched the geyser on it was pulling like 12.6A which is a bit heavy.

It's fine looks like the hailstorm also damaged my geyser. Insurance assessor approved a replacement today so I will just ask them to install a 1.5KW or maybe I can get approval for a solar geyser. Will see what the insurance says.

ref for the hailstorm I'm talking about. https://mybroadband.co.za/forum/thr...rning-thread-the-sequel.1304140/post-34143707

How does hail damage a geyser?

 

[cavedog]

How does hail damage a geyser?

My geyser is on the roof completely open. The side where the power cord and element sit is smashed open. It's just plastic, I think.

 

[denmendez65]

He said he saw my coffee machine and gaming room so he said my appliances will overload the inverter.

I know how to control my stuff I told him that but he said no. I kind off agree because we have a 3kw now. He put his clamp meter on the cable when we switched the geyser on it was pulling like 12.6A which is a bit heavy.

It's fine looks like the hailstorm also damaged my geyser. Insurance assessor approved a replacement today so I will just ask them to install a 1.5KW or maybe I can get approval for a solar geyser. Will see what the insurance says.

ref for the hailstorm I'm talking about. https://mybroadband.co.za/forum/thr...rning-thread-the-sequel.1304140/post-34143707

If run simultaneously, yes. How many 8kW, 10kW inverters are overloaded out there when people forget to manage their loads. The inverter just kills itself and stops supplying. Wakes up after you reset it or it does it automatically. No hazard that will void COC.

But yeah, it seems you sorted with the insurance. Mind as well get a 1.5kW. If money allows and since insurance is paying, get the Geyserwise 1.5kW PTC element. They rave on about it so mind as well have something to brag around with on the forums . A 3rd of the price compared to the Xtend if not mistaken.

 

[wingnut771]

If run simultaneously, yes. How many 8kW, 10kW inverters are overloaded out there when people forget to manage their loads. The inverter just kills itself and stops supplying. Wakes up after you reset it or it does it automatically. No hazard that will void COC.

But yeah, it seems you sorted with the insurance. Mind as well get a 1.5kW. If money allows and since insurance is paying, get the Geyserwise 1.5kW PTC element. They rave on about it so mind as well have something to brag around with on the forums . A 3rd of the price compared to the Xtend if not mistaken.

How much do you want his insurance to spend?

 

[denmendez65]

My geyser is on the roof completely open. The side where the power cord and element sit is smashed open. It's just plastic, I think.

Maybe get 2 geysers also. With a valve to shut one off until your solar can do both unless you already can heat up 2?

 

[denmendez65]

How much do you want his insurance to spend?

Geyserwise 2Kw 230V Stainless Steel PTC Geyser Element – 2000W AC Only

Geyserwise 2Kw 230V Stainless Steel PTC Geyser Element – 2000W AC Only The GeyserWise 2000W PTC AC Element, crafted from stainless steel, represents a leap forward in immersion heater technology, offering enhanced safety and efficiency for electric geysers. Distinguished by its use of Positive...

livestainable.co.za

More expensive yes but still half price compared to the Xtend. Also they dont need a thermostat I believe? And are more suited for hard water. You can see I read all the marketing brochures when the guy was upselling.

 

[wingnut771]

Maybe get 2 geysers also. With a valve to shut one off until your solar can do both unless you already can heat up 2?

You dont need to power both. Set one to 70c and the other can just be for storage for now being fed 70c water, I guess you can have 1.5kW in there to maintain 50c but will probably hardly ever turn on or can do the relay thing so both dont turn on together.

 

[wingnut771]

Geyserwise 2Kw 230V Stainless Steel PTC Geyser Element – 2000W AC Only

Geyserwise 2Kw 230V Stainless Steel PTC Geyser Element – 2000W AC Only The GeyserWise 2000W PTC AC Element, crafted from stainless steel, represents a leap forward in immersion heater technology, offering enhanced safety and efficiency for electric geysers. Distinguished by its use of Positive...

livestainable.co.za

More expensive yes but still half price compared to the Xtend. Also they dont need a thermostat I believe? And are more suited for hard water. You can see I read all the marketing brochures when the guy was upselling.

If I was insurance I would do straight swap out, 150l kwikot out, 150l kwikot in, just make sure new one has better energy rating than the old one, I think its class b now and not class d? I'm sure they are also aware of the snake oil brands.

Then add another kwikot 150l for R5k in series for the rainy days and substation fires.

 

[denmendez65]

You dont need to power both. Set one to 70c and the other can just be for storage for now being fed 70c water, I guess you can have 1.5kW in there to maintain 50c but will probably hardly ever turn on or can do the relay thing.

Yeah, if insurance pays for 1 tank and the plumber has to come out mind as well pay the extra to add a second one. 300 litres of hot water. 2 300 rand 1.5kW elements in each driven by contactor or just one which feeds the other.

 

[wingnut771]

Yeah, if insurance pays for 1 tank and the plumber has to come out mind as well pay the extra to add a second one. 300 litres of hot water. 2 300 rand 1.5kW elements in each driven by contactor or just one which feeds the other.

I still think 1.5kW is too small.

 

[isie]

I had a geyserwise installed with my solar and it was well worth it. Being able to heat the geyser the minimum for a shower for me (45) early morning before I drive to the office but much warmer later when the sun is up was a large part of my electricity savings. The ability to both control temperature and time is the key. Early morning its set to 45. Later on it goes up to 60. Weekends I have a different schedule. I would prefer something a bit smarter though as it's an offline system and it constantly loses time. Something smarter I could manage with my phone would be preferable.

Secondly my geyser and stove are on the non essential side so they did not run when power was off. However we had a few times where power was off for a few days and I had an abundance of spare power with my whole system idling and the batteries full and no way to direct that power into my stove or especially the geyser. So I had an electrician install a bypass switch that allowed me to flip the stove and geyser between the essential and non-essential side. It's one of those 3 level switches on my main DB. Was not expensive to do and was a lifesaver a few times for me so that we could at least all shower. I have to obviously be careful to not have much else on with the geyser as it's a 3kw element and my inverter is a 5KW inverter but I find I can manage that fairly well during prolonged power cuts. It's nice having the option!

That is why Aux or smart load ( on Deye, sunsynk) is a great feature , unfortunately many installers don't advise their customers that it's an option ( or they themselves don't even know about it)

 

[cavedog]

So solar setup is installed. I don't know but I was hoping he would angle the panels a bit for better production and to make use of the bifacial panels but I will see later to optimize the setup a bit more.

So, the Navasolar Inverter even though it's in SUB mode it's still pulling from the battery. I need to go through the manual a bit more to understand exactly how this inverter will behave but so far when it was sunny I pull 4.5kw easy all via Solar and excess from battery/grid then the clouds rolled in. Ai