Global Warming Scam Exposed?

Morgoth, Morgoth, Morgoth..... and why, pray tell, would those producers be producing if the consumers chose not to consumer their product?!?

And glad you asked, Morgoth, I have in fact changed all my light bulbs. Even my dimmer spots now have energy savers which really is an "inconvenience" as I can no longer dim them but such is life. I do not have solar heating as I reside in a flat so it is not a possibility. I do, however, have a geyser blanket. I also have an awareness of my carbon footprint and make a concerted effort to reduce this where I can. I am also bringing my children up to be aware of the consequences of their actions in this respect. They are already fully aware of the fact that driving a Hummer does not make them at all cool! I also have a monthly challenge with myself to see whether I can reduce my fuel consumption by driving conservatively. I constantly monitor my litres per hundred kms.

As stated earlier, besides all of this possibly helping in the fight to protect our planet, it also means financial savings for me every month, so I really cannot see the point in not trying to do your bit!
 
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LancelotSA said:
Morgoth, Morgoth, Morgoth..... and why, pray tell, would those producers be producing if the consumers chose not to consumer their product?!?
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suggest any alternative to driving a car? ... the debate goes beyond light bulbs now does it?..

They make cheaper stuff and sell it because its erm? cheaper....
The consumer buys what is available? the cheaper stuff?...

and of course there are other factors involved such as competition, if you are not prepared to make the cheaper goods the so called - environmental poison, then someone else might take on that market share.

we have politics, - I am sure George bush can tell you lots of stories about his policy to get more oil, I mean war on terror in Iraq...
and yes there are countless other factors involved- the system at the moment is quite messed up. Good luck in convincing everyone to go greener, or rather prepare to the ice age!
 
LancelotSA said:
Morgoth, Morgoth, Morgoth..... and why, pray tell, would those producers be producing if the consumers chose not to consumer their product?!?

And glad you asked, Morgoth, I have in fact changed all my light bulbs. Even my dimmer spots now have energy savers which really is an "inconvenience" as I can no longer dim them but such is life. I do not have solar heating as I reside in a flat so it is not a possibility. I do, however, have a geyser blanket. I also have an awareness of my carbon footprint and make a concerted effort to reduce this where I can. I am also bringing my children up to be aware of the consequences of their actions in this respect. They are already fully aware of the fact that driving a Hummer does not make them at all cool! I also have a monthly challenge with myself to see whether I can reduce my fuel consumption by driving conservatively. I constantly monitor my litres per hundred kms.

As stated earlier, besides all of this possibly helping in the fight to protect our planet, it also means financial savings for me every month, so I really cannot see the point in not trying to do your bit!
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sure, buts lets see if my financial savings per month are really worth it! I mean installation costs are also an issue... and be careful not to indoctrinate your children :), are they aware that their bit might be meaningless as it contributes about 0.000000000000000001% to a greener future?
 
You are perhaps stuck with needing a car but you can choose the car you drive!

And we have already covered the cost argument. I, personally, am willing to spend a little bit extra if it means being more "environmentally friendly".

You are totally mistaken as at the end of the day the consumer is the one controlling the situation. Unfortunately you are not the only one out there who couldn't give a damn and just buys without a conscience. If we all made a stand the producers would be forced to change.
 
Morgoth said:
sure, buts lets see if my financial savings per month are really worth it! I mean installation costs are also an issue... and be careful not to indoctrinate your children :), are they aware that their bit might be meaningless as it contributes about 0.000000000000000001% to a greener future?
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And should they not be proud of the fact that they are playing their part no matter how small? :rolleyes:

Have you ever done Math? Do you know what 0.000000000000000001 x 6,692,030,277 is? Well if every 0.000000000000000001 did their bit that would be the result!

I would much rather choose indoctrinating them into that way of thinking than them not giving a damn about their effect and influence on society and the planet! I actually can't believe that even needs to be said and discussed!
 
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LancelotSA said:
You are perhaps stuck with needing a car but you can choose the car you drive!

And we have already covered the cost argument. I, personally, am willing to spend a little bit extra if it means being more "environmentally friendly".

You are totally mistaken as at the end of the day the consumer is the one controlling the situation. Unfortunately you are not the only one out there who couldn't give a damn and just buys without a conscience. If we all made a stand the producers would be forced to change.
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I would normally choose a car because its light on petrol and because I can afford it, that is logic so if that is a contribution then I am glad I can help out.

there is also the argument of industries declining or shifting due to this climate debate. People can lose jobs is one of the implications involved, imagine an entire oil industry dieing in the world, I am sure the arabs won't be happy, but hey its all for the greater good!
 
LancelotSA said:
And should they not be proud of the fact that they are playing their part no matter how small? :rolleyes:

Have you ever done Math? Do you know what 0.000000000000000001 x 6,692,030,277 is? Well if every 0.000000000000000001 did their bit that would be the result!

I would much rather choose indoctrinating them into that way of thinking than them not giving a damn about their effect and influence on society and the planet! I actually can't believe that even needs to be said and discussed!
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I believe they should decide for themselves (the PD section of full of articles on how bad it is for you not to indoctrinate your children!)
and if you didn't notice already I pulled that figure out of my ass... but I am quite capable of adding it up,
 
Morgoth said:
I believe they should decide for themselves (the PD section of full of articles on how bad it is for you not to indoctrinate your children!)
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Oh please! Have your own kids and then argue with me about how I bring mine up! They will always be "indoctrinated" by their parents whether those in the PD section like it or not. They learn by your every action and word!

Let a two year old decide for themselves!! ha ha ha ha ha what a joke!
 
LancelotSA said:
Oh please! Have your own kids and then argue with me about how I bring mine up! They will always be "indoctrinated" by their parents whether those in the PD section like it or not. They learn by your every action and word!

Let a two year old decide for themselves!! ha ha ha ha ha what a joke!
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I think you missed the point and no I didn't know how old they are!
 
LancelotSA said:
Well I have a little reality check for you there Morgoth, they'll need to find something to do when the oil eventually dries up!
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yeah, its going to dry up when the ice age arrives, there is a better change in them finding a way to make new oil or reuse the co2 in the air then actually going green, there was an article the other day by pumping the carbon back into the earth to farm minerals, the chemistry is done but the practicality is a bit hard ( I'll try find it when I actually get uncapped)
 
I am going to have a quick (because it uses less water and hot water) shower (again because it uses less water), which is only heated to 50 degrees in my blanket covered geyser, under the energy saver lights in my bathroom now. I will continue this "argument" later.
 
LancelotSA said:
I don't think I missed the point at all.

And the other one is 10. The same argument applies there too.
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according to me indoctrination = letting others think for you when you are completely capable of thinking for yourself. Yes a two year old is not always incapable of deciding what is dangerous and what is not and other obvious things, but I am sure he won't understand the carbon debate either.
 
LancelotSA said:
I am going to have a quick (because it uses less water and hot water) shower (again because it uses less water), which is only heated to 50 degrees in my blanket covered geyser, under the energy saver lights in my bathroom now. I will continue this "argument" later.
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in that case I will enjoy a heated ( because it uses lots of energy) warm ( because I like it warm and it uses lots of water) swim then (because I like screwing up the planet!)
 
I was hoping that more of a discussion concerning the material that was leaked would be discussed.

For instance, the following
"I’ve just completed Mike’s Nature trick of adding in the real temps to each series for the last 20 years (ie from 1981 onwards) and from 1961 for Keith’s to hide the decline."

It was good to see you again yesterday - if briefly. One particular thing you said - and we agreed - was about the IPCC reports and the broader climate negotiations were working to the globalisation agenda driven by organisations like the WTO. So my first question is do you have anything written or published, or know of anything particularly on this subject, which talks about this in more detail?

In my (perhaps too
> > harsh)
> > view, there have been a number of dishonest presentations of model
> > results by individual authors and by IPCC. This is why I still use
> > results from MAGICC to compare with observed temperatures. At least
> > here I can assess how sensitive matches are to sensitivity and
> > forcing assumptions/uncertainties.

47 out of 91 models listed in Chapter 9 assume that carbon dioxide in the atmosphere is increasing at the rate of 1% a year when the measured rate of increase, for the past 33 years, has been 0.4% a year. The assumption of false figures in models in order to boost future projections is fraudulent. What other figures are falsely exaggerated in the same way?
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Update 12:58 - Oh oh.... From Phil Jones... and its recent:

From: Phil Jones <[email protected]>
To: "Michael E. Mann" <[email protected]>, "raymond s. bradley" <[email protected]>
Subject: A couple of things
Date: Fri May 9 09:53:41 2008
Cc: "Caspar Ammann" <[email protected]>

....

2. You can delete this attachment if you want. Keep this quiet also, but this is the person who is putting in FOI requests for all emails Keith and Tim have written and received re Ch 6 of AR4. We think we've found a way around this.

And then there's this...

From: Phil Jones <[email protected]>
To: "Michael E. Mann" <[email protected]>
Subject: IPCC & FOI
Date: Thu May 29 11:04:11 2008

Mike,

Can you delete any emails you may have had with Keith re AR4? Keith will do likewise. He's not in at the moment - minor family crisis.

Can you also email Gene and get him to do the same? I don't have his new email address.

We will be getting Caspar to do likewise.

I see that CA claim they discovered the 1945 problem in the Nature paper!!
Cheers
Phil

One has to wonder: was the "way around it" (the FOI) mentioned in the first correspondence to intentionally destroy the emails requested?

This is fraudulant representation of information, and it goes right to the very top.
One hopes that the media will present this honestly to the public and inform the public what Al Gore, Goldman Sachs and the other "Climate Profiteers" are planning.

For those of you that ask "Why are the Glaciers Melting" it is more than likely natural. You just have to look at the ice data for the Arctic and Antarctic to realise that they are at levels last seen in the 70's when all the alarmists were screaming about another Ice Age.

Global Warming/Climate Change is a Scam.
 
Fieldy said:
I was hoping that more of a discussion concerning the material that was leaked would be discussed.
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The actual figures do not concern me to be honest. I feel it cannot be argued that we are screwing up our planet. Anything that creates awareness to this problem is fine by me... even if some of the figures used have been tweaked a little.

I don't believe for one second that those on the other side of the fence are giving us 100% honest data either!
 
LancelotSA said:
The actual figures do not concern me to be honest. I feel it cannot be argued that we are screwing up our planet. Anything that creates awareness to this problem is fine by me... even if some of the figures used have been tweaked a little.

I don't believe for one second that those on the other side of the fence are giving us 100% honest data either!
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Tweaked a LITTLE.... Hmmm from a scientific point of view, its impossible to take date from the last 50 years which is all we really have to be honest and form anything that is worth its weight on the paper its written on.

Awareness is one thing, Al gores BS is another. The recent nomination of the current US president for a nobel prize after doing nothing just goes to show how much that is worth.

Are we doing bad things to our planet.. I believe so. Are we doing worse that then millions of Volcanoes that are now extinct... I think not. When ever you talk to real scientists (not these al gore idiots) you will see that they are spilt in two. Some THINK it might be a problem, some THINK it might not. None of them are 100% sure.

Personally, I'll stick to the data that we actually have, and that is from astonomers, who have been studying things and recording data for almost 2000 years (which is the most complete data we have, instead of some wanna be, Its much more complicated than I can post in this thread though, but is easily researched). And if they are anything to go by, We should be expecting a another period of rapid cooling again in the next 4-5 years. And I'll bet you that gets blamed on CO2 gases again.

Its not about what is true and where the facts are, its about what makes news headlines. Global warming makes headlines, The fact thats its a naturally recuring event, is kinda boring
 
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