Global Warming Scam Exposed?

Very much so. However, its the usual crowd. You cant expect too much outta them. Theyre South Africans who choose what they want to believe.
Hmm that works both ways for the people who refuse to believe that its a hoax. Why is it though that suddenly the personal name calling suddenly has to get thrown into the argument. I hate fsking godwin but he is so damn right.

You failed to read each and every post of mine completely up till this point. NO ONE is saying CO2 is not causing the current raise in temps on the warm cycle or the drop in the Cold cycle.
BINGO!!!!!! I will say that maybe the current CO2 levels are having an impact, but a very small part of what is a natural cycle of which we only have about 100 years of data. Which in the scale of things is not enough to set up any form of error bars for the type of accusations they are making.

I bet some wise ass will eventually think of another theory after we used up all the wind energy to power our homes in the next 10-20 years.
That will never work, wind power at least. Well it will but its not economically viable. I am more than likely going to get into **** for this, But here is a portion of a private email I received in September, which was written in response to an article in the Cape Times written by Mr. Davies and wasn't meant for publication

Slightly of topic but the ending is what I was thinking of with regards to this thread.

You then ask whether we can afford nuclear 'when cheaper alternative systems are available'! Misleading, it seems to me, to put it mildly - even though all costs are going through the roof.

In the fifth column, you ask why we don't turn to renewables 'when we have such abundant sun, wind and hydro resources? Answers: sun because it's very expensive and the technology will take many decades to work up to the massive scale required; wind because it's expensive and intermittent (see below) and, unlike Denmark, we have no powerful neighbours to support us when the wind drops; hydro because we have little locally and Inga, on which work has now sadly stopped, is 3000km away over politically unstable territory. I have no doubt that you believe all these things are feasible and must therefore be astonished that Eskom does not rush out and implement them. You are therefore obliged to attribute this failure to stupidity on the part of Eskom and malign influence on the part of the mining and, presumably, nuclear industries. Maybe it's not. Just maybe, the decisions are rational - if pedestrian.

You then say that we could generate base-load power from CSP and 'thermal batteries'. I can only imagine that a thermal battery is a tank full of molten salt. According to the Eskom guru on the subject, you need 50 000 tons of molten sodium/potassium nitrate working between 300 and 600 deg C for each 100 MWe tower. A technology in its infancy. I don't know of one working anywhere. Again, it is surely misleading not to mention the considerable cost involved. And has anyone in the environmental camp looked at the environmental and energy costs of procuring all the structural and other materials needed? It would, for example, need 900 000 tons of molten salt to replace Koeberg.

Just as a matter of interest, it would need a single mirror 24 km in diameter to generate the 240 000 GWh/year of electricity we use. Or, since I know you prefer the concept of distributed generation operated by the local population, rather more than a thousand 100 MWe towers, each with its 50 000 tons of molten salt, located in the sunnier parts of the country.

Finally, as you will recall, I keep harping on about the need to master the arithmetic of energy generation.

Take wind. Again, according to the same Eskom guru, from a wind farm, you get full power for about 5% of the time, nothing for about 35% when the wind is either too strong of too gentle, and a variable, intermediate power level for about 60%. Overall, in this country, you do well to achieve 20%. I understand that Klipheuwel almost gets there.

A 100 MWe wind farm will therefore give you on average 20MW, or 20 x 8760 MWh per year = 20 x 8,760 GWh/y = 175,2 GWh/y.

Now, as a nation we use 240 000 GWh/y. We would therefore need 240 000 / 175,2 x 100 MW of wind power, i.e. 136 986 MW, i.e. about 68 500 x 2MW windmills.

Now, you must place these windmills about five diameters apart, say 400m. So you would need a line of windmills 27 000 km long. Assuming that we have a 'smoothed-out' coastline 4000km long, you would need at least six lines of 2 MW windmills (twice as big as those at
Klipheuwel) stretching from Namibia to Mozambique. Why do wind enthusiasts not tell us things like that?

Of course, if we could miraculously call those lines of windmills into existence, we would have far too much energy on one day, far too little the next. We would therefore also have to call into existence perhaps 20 000 MW of coal or nuclear power to cover for bad wind days. And if we have to build those more dependable stations anyway, why build the windmills in the first place? South Africa has no external back-up or significant pumped storage. You have to accept, therefore, that wind can play only a minor (and expensive) part in our planning. I'm not convinced that we can justify any at all, other than for R&D.
Again, Koeberg generates about 1800 x 8760 x 0,9 MWh/y = 14, 2 million MWh/y = 14 200 GWh/y. So we would need 14 200/175,2 x 100 MW of windmills to replace it = 8105 MW of windmills. If we use big 5 MW off-shore machines as high as the Statue of Liberty, we would need only 1620.

Now then, the spacing required would be about 1km in the SE-NW direction and 500m across wind, i.e. two windmills per km2. We would therefore need about 810 km2, i.e. an area of ocean some 28 km square. This is about the area of False Bay totally covered with the largest windmills.
How's that for environmental impact? Is that really preferable to Koeberg? Think also of the building and decommissioning perhaps twenty years later. And then the rebuilding. Good-bye whales!

We all clearly have inbuilt filters. We internalise only 'facts' that resonate with what we already believe. And we believe only what our personalities incline us to believe. We accept uncritically 'facts', however bizarre, that suit our cause and reiterate, even embellish, those facts as time goes by.

The simple facts are that we must economise. Our lifestyles will have to contract. Electricity and oil costs will see to that. For the good of the planet we must develop renewables to the fullest extent that technical and, particularly, economic factors allow. For the same reason we must go nuclear as fast as the sadly depleted global nuclear industry can manage. The energy in the nucleus is surely as much a gift of God as is the sun. What folly, in the grim on-coming energy situation, not to develop it! Our children will not thank us if we burn up all their fossil reserves, despoil their environment and fail to bequeath to them viable generation technologies, renewable and otherwise.
 
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I'm not saying its as bad as the alarmists want everyone to think..

But I'm not saying its a scam either...

And yes glaciers are from the ice-age but I'm not saying we should still be in the ice-age... I'm saying that glaciers are normal in certain parts of the world due to the prevailing climate in the region, and the fact that they're disappearing is disturbing since we don't know what is causing the world to get hotter. It could be us, it could be natural.

I thankfully can think for myself, and don't jump on these little tinfoil theories of scams etc etc..

nicely put ToxicBunny.
 
Hmm that works both ways for the people who refuse to believe that its a hoax. Why is it though that suddenly the personal name calling suddenly has to get thrown into the argument. I hate fsking godwin but he is so damn right.

It doesn't work that way. Two opinions are not equally valid if lots of people adhere to each one. There are things called facts. One of those facts is that GW is not a hoax. You can call it a hoax all you like, but that doesn't make it so.
 
Hmm that works both ways for the people who refuse to believe that its a hoax. Why is it though that suddenly the personal name calling suddenly has to get thrown into the argument. I hate fsking godwin but he is so damn right..
That must be one large group of hoaxers going around the world melting all the ice then:rolleyes: Global warming is happening. Climate change is happening. Ice is melting on every continent.

Whether you choose your beliefs or not is irrelevant to me. Its happening with or without your belief or lack of belief in it. You are the kinda person who chooses your beliefs (as I said.. the usual crowd), I get reality shoved down my throat.

One thing that I do know, ignorance is not argued into people, so therefore it can not be argued out of them. So forgive me if I dont engage you again.

One thing I do know, is this thread shows a severe lack of scientific education in South Africa (on all levels), and an almost complete lack of understanding how science works. I guess too many guys played rugby and did woodwork in school. Saying that, there are some very bright minds here that know how science works and I even include Phronesis in that bunch. Just most South Africans have no clue (thats not ment to be insulting, thats the reality of our culture) about the scientific method or the scientific community. We live in the country of Heat and People magazine culture. Too little science too much woodwork.

Now I know a bunch of you are already thinking of all the scientific contributions we have contributed and that we are currently involved in.. but thats an extremely tiny percentage of the population that contributed that to humanity, and they would have understood that climate change is happening.
 
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It doesn't work that way. Two opinions are not equally valid if lots of people adhere to each one. There are things called facts. One of those facts is that GW is not a hoax. You can call it a hoax all you like, but that doesn't make it so.
Read the part I put in bold from the email.. its the most important part..

Whether you choose your beliefs or not is irrelevant to me. Its happening with or without your belief or lack of belief in it. You are the kinda person who chooses your beliefs (as I said.. the usual crowd), I get reality shoved down my throat.
Your arguing your own point, You yourself have a set of beliefs that you refuse to change. Please also read that bold part. Your are also trying to shove yours down mine. All I'm saying and have said from the very beginning, is that its not as bad as all the alarmist are trying to make out. Have you even read my posts.. Because it seems like your talking to somebody else completely. The part I put in bold above describing you all, is exactly what your now saying about me... WTF??? I don't get it?

One thing that I do know, ignorance is not argued into people, so therefore it can not be argued out of them. So forgive me if I dont engage you again.
Your call... doesn't bug me one bit

One thing I do know, is this thread shows a severe lack of scientific education in South Africa (on all levels), and an almost complete lack of understanding how science works. I guess too many guys played rugby and did woodwork in school. Saying that, there are some very bright minds here that know how science works and I even include Phronesis in that bunch. Just most South Africans have no clue (thats not ment to be insulting, thats the reality of our culture) about the scientific method or the scientific community. We live in the country of Heat and People magazine culture. Too little science too much woodwork.

Now I know a bunch of you are already thinking of all the scientific contributions we have contributed and that we are currently involved in.. but thats an extremely tiny percentage of the population that contributed that to humanity, and they would have understood that climate change is happening.
Hmmm Sorry, but I think I have much more "scientific" backround than most here.. and I don't believe it 100% so go on an carry on with the insults.

Again the wonderful part I put in bold is proving its point and its the same point you are all trying to argue back, and yet are doing it yourselfs over and over... Just in case nobody could read it, I'll put it here again..

We all clearly have inbuilt filters. We internalise only 'facts' that resonate with what we already believe. And we believe only what our personalities incline us to believe. We accept uncritically 'facts', however bizarre, that suit our cause and reiterate, even embellish, those facts as time goes by
 
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Read the part I put in bold from the email.. its the most important part..

Your arguing your own point, You yourself have a set of beliefs that you refuse to change. Please also read that bold part. Your are also trying to shove yours down mine. All I'm saying and have said from the very beginning, is that its not as bad as all the alarmist are trying to make out.

Your call... doesn't bug me one bit

Hmmm Sorry, but I think I have much more "scientific" backround than most here.. and I don't believe it 100% so go on an carry on with the insults.

Again the wonderful part I put in bold is proving its point and its the same point you are all trying to argue back, and yet are doing it yourselfs over and over... Just in case nobody could read it, I'll put it here again..

We all clearly have inbuilt filters. We internalise only 'facts' that resonate with what we already believe. And we believe only what our personalities incline us to believe. We accept uncritically 'facts', however bizarre, that suit our cause and reiterate, even embellish, those facts as time goes by

*yawn*

Enjoy the rugby.
 
Read the part I put in bold from the email.. its the most important part..

Your arguing your own point, You yourself have a set of beliefs that you refuse to change. Please also read that bold part. Your are also trying to shove yours down mine. All I'm saying and have said from the very beginning, is that its not as bad as all the alarmist are trying to make out.

Your call... doesn't bug me one bit

Hmmm Sorry, but I think I have much more "scientific" backround than most here.. and I don't believe it 100% so go on an carry on with the insults.

Again the wonderful part I put in bold is proving its point and its the same point you are all trying to argue back, and yet are doing it yourselfs over and over... Just in case nobody could read it, I'll put it here again..

We all clearly have inbuilt filters. We internalise only 'facts' that resonate with what we already believe. And we believe only what our personalities incline us to believe. We accept uncritically 'facts', however bizarre, that suit our cause and reiterate, even embellish, those facts as time goes by

Your bolded text highlights the important fact the all people have biases. That being said, it does NOT mean that all truth is relative. The fact that AGW theory is now the consensus view is because the theory is robust, not because everyone decided beforehand that that's what they wanted to believe.
 
Your bolded text highlights the important fact the all people have biases. That being said, it does NOT mean that all truth is relative. The fact that AGW theory is now the consensus view is because the theory is robust, not because everyone decided beforehand that that's what they wanted to believe.
The theory its NOT robust. Its the most published theory, one that has made the most headlines.

There are thousands of scientists out there who do NOT believe it. But their theories don't make governments money. With of course without, the scientists wouldn't be able to work in the first place

Does it have merit.. Yes.. Is it 100% accurate, IMHO not at all. The recent hoax thing is as funny as hell to me, because if it WAS 100% accurate, why would they of had to "modify" certain facts. To me it sounds like the did it to try make the theory sound robust as you put it, because otherwise people would of found holes in. There have already been posted countless times in this thread, with proof, that the world is in fact cooling. If you wish to believe them or not is up to you, But it goes back to what I said previously with regards to people using only the facts that they want in order to suit their cause. You cant sit back and take all that AL gore and his cronies have said as FACT and believe it all when there are suddenly thousands of smaller institutes publishing data to disprove it. YES they might not be as big, but that doesn't mean their facts are any less accurate.

One has to take ALL the facts and try view them as such. Deciding to ignore one part because it doesn't suit you, is... well think about it
 
The theory its NOT robust. Its the most published theory, one that has made the most headlines.

There are thousands of scientists out there who do NOT believe it. But their theories don't make governments money. With of course without, the scientists wouldn't be able to work in the first place

Does it have merit.. Yes.. Is it 100% accurate, IMHO not at all. The recent hoax thing is as funny as hell to me, because if it WAS 100% accurate, why would they of had to "modify" certain facts. To me it sounds like the did it to try make the theory sound robust as you put it, because otherwise people would of found holes in. There have already been posted countless times in this thread, with proof, that the world is in fact cooling. If you wish to believe them or not is up to you, But it goes back to what I said previously with regards to people using only the facts that they want in order to suit their cause. You cant sit back and take all AL gore and his cronies have said as FACT and believe it all when there are suddenly thousands of smaller institutes publishing data to disprove it. YES they might not be as big, but that doesn't mean their facts are any less accurate.

One has to take ALL the facts and try view them as such. Deciding to ignore one part because it doesn't suit you, is... well think about it

Please substantiate your bolded claim above. If you can do that, we can take this discussion further.

*edit* please don't submit this:

http://www.oism.org/pproject/

it's just a waste of energy even having to respond to that.
 
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Just go back and read some of the posts here, where some have put up information

http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showpost.php?p=3367511&postcount=115

http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showpost.php?p=3367814&postcount=120

This isn't my field of work, Its more a field of interest that I poke my head into every now and then, If you want however you are more than welcome to join me at the next SAIP, or even come with me to CERN in 3 weeks and ask all the scientists there PERSONALLY what they believe, instead of the things that make headline news, can be found on google, or that some publisher thought would make them millions and have, in a book by the Vice president of a country

EDIT: Or even closer, come to the next ASSA meeting and ask the working astronomers there what they think based on current observations
 
Just go back and read some of the posts here, where some have put up information

http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showpost.php?p=3367511&postcount=115

http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showpost.php?p=3367814&postcount=120

This isn't my field of work, Its more a field of interest that I poke my head into every now and then, If you want however you are more than welcome to join me at the next SAIP, or even come with me to CERN in 3 weeks and ask all the scientists there PERSONALLY what they believe, instead of the things that make headline news, can be found on google, or that some publisher thought would make them millions and have, in a book by the Vice president of a country

EDIT: Or even closer, come to the next ASSA meeting and ask the working astronomers there what they think based on current observations

Or even better look at the IPCC fourth assessment report and the endorsement of every major scientific body on earth.

Your two links are irrelevant - the one by Phrony says nothing about AGW skepticism, merely highlights a lack of knowledge on the current drivers of cooling. The one from Pitbull's from a blogger. Besides, they're a long way off from "thousands of scientists".

Evidently you have a lot of anecdotal evidence to fall back on but I'm far more willing to base my opinion on explicit position statements from relevant authorities, among other things.

There are some interesting surveys on "consensus" too:

Doran and Kendall Zimmerman, 2009

A poll performed by Peter Doran and Maggie Kendall Zimmerman at Earth and Environmental Sciences, University of Illinois at Chicago received replies from 3,146 of the 10,257 polled Earth scientists. Results were analyzed globally and by specialization. 76 out of 79 climatologists who "listed climate science as their area of expertise and who also have published more than 50% of their recent peer-reviewed papers on the subject of climate change" believe that mean global temperatures have risen compared to pre-1800s levels, and 75 out of 77 believe that human activity is a significant factor in changing mean global temperatures. Among all respondents, 90% agreed that temperatures have risen compared to pre-1800 levels, and 82% agreed that humans significantly influence the global temperature. Petroleum geologists and meteorologists were among the biggest doubters, with only 47 percent and 64 percent, respectively, believing in human involvement. A summary from the survey states that:

It seems that the debate on the authenticity of global warming and the role played by human activity is largely nonexistent among those who understand the nuances and scientific basis of long-term climate processes.[83]

[edit] STATS, 2007

In 2007, Harris Interactive surveyed 489 randomly selected members of either the American Meteorological Society or the American Geophysical Union for the Statistical Assessment Service (STATS) at George Mason University. The survey found 97% agreed that global temperatures have increased during the past 100 years; 84% say they personally believe human-induced warming is occurring, and 74% agree that “currently available scientific evidence” substantiates its occurrence. Only 5% believe that that human activity does not contribute to greenhouse warming; and 84% believe global climate change poses a moderate to very great danger.[84][85]
[edit] Oreskes, 2004

A 2004 article by geologist and historian of science Naomi Oreskes summarized a study of the scientific literature on climate change.[86] The essay concluded that there is a scientific consensus on the reality of anthropogenic climate change. The author analyzed 928 abstracts of papers from refereed scientific journals between 1993 and 2003, listed with the keywords "global climate change". Oreskes divided the abstracts into six categories: explicit endorsement of the consensus position, evaluation of impacts, mitigation proposals, methods, paleoclimate analysis, and rejection of the consensus position. 75% of the abstracts were placed in the first three categories, thus either explicitly or implicitly accepting the consensus view; 25% dealt with methods or paleoclimate, thus taking no position on current anthropogenic climate change; none of the abstracts disagreed with the consensus position, which the author found to be "remarkable". According to the report, "authors evaluating impacts, developing methods, or studying paleoclimatic change might believe that current climate change is natural. However, none of these papers argued that point."
[edit] Bray and von Storch, 2003

A survey was conducted in 2003 by Dennis Bray and Hans von Storch.[87][88] Bray's submission to Science on December 22, 2004 was rejected, but the survey's results were reported through non-scientific venues.[89][90] The survey received 530 responses from 27 different countries. One of the questions asked was "To what extent do you agree or disagree that climate change is mostly the result of anthropogenic causes?", with a value of 1 indicating strongly agree and a value of 7 indicating strongly disagree. The results showed a mean of 3.62, with 50 responses (9.4%) indicating "strongly agree" and 54 responses (9.7%) indicating "strongly disagree". The same survey indicates a 72% to 20% endorsement of the IPCC reports as accurate, and a 15% to 80% rejection of the thesis that "there is enough uncertainty about the phenomenon of global warming that there is no need for immediate policy decisions."

The survey has been criticized on the grounds that it was performed on the web with no means to verify that the respondents were climate scientists or to prevent multiple submissions. The survey required entry of a username and password, but the username and password were circulated to a climate skeptics mailing list and elsewhere on the internet.[91][92] Bray and von Storch defended their results[93] and accused climate change skeptics of interpreting the results with bias.

Bray and von Storch distributed an updated version of their survey in August 2008, sent to 1842 selected scientists drawn from authors in ISI listed climate related journals for the past 10 years, as well as lists used in previously published analyses. This survey contains a web link with a unique identifier for each respondent. Results of this survey are not yet available.
[edit] Survey of U.S. state climatologists, 1997

In 1997, the conservative think tank Citizens for a Sound Economy surveyed America's 48 state climatologists on questions related to climate change.[94] Of the 36 respondents, 44% considered global warming to be a largely natural phenomenon, compared to 17% who considered warming to be largely man-made. The survey further found that 58% disagreed or somewhat disagreed with then-President Clinton's assertion that "the overwhelming balance of evidence and scientific opinion is that it is no longer a theory, but now fact, that global warming is for real". Eighty-nine percent agreed that "current science is unable to isolate and measure variations in global temperatures caused ONLY by man-made factors," and 61% said that historical data do not indicate "that fluctuations in global temperatures are attributable to human influences such as burning fossil fuels."

Sixty percent of the respondents said that reducing man-made CO2 emissions in the US by 15% below 1990 levels would not prevent global temperatures from rising, and 86% said that reducing emissions in the US to 1990 levels would not prevent rising temperatures. Thirty nine percent agreed and 33% disagreed that "evidence exists to suggest that the earth is headed for another glacial period,"[95] though the time scale for the next glacial period was not specified.
 
Or even better look at the IPCC fourth assessment report and the endorsement of every major scientific body on earth.
The same IPCC that was awarded the Nobel prize jointly with Al Gore... That kind of disproves the whole point of listening to other peoples views doesn't it?

Further more, the award they were given was for "warning of the potential impact of global warming". It doesn't mean its all FACT.

Your more than welcome to jump into bed with all of these alarmists, Personally, I'd like to keep my mind open to other possibilities until somebody gives concrete evidence. Until then I'll be happy to sit on the fence regardless of how many people here who "THINK" they are scientists (not meaning you in that btw) choose to believe

As to my hearsay or anecdotal evidence. I'll be more than welcome to PM you my details and set you up in a Skype/EVO video conference in 3 weeks to listen to REAL scientists views instead of those funded by the IPCC (And I'll completely admit that some of them will agree, but just as many will disagree. Should make for an interesting conversation none the less, were we might all learn something instead of believing the BS spewed on Google)

PS: Just out of interest. Anything that has anything to do with meteorologists always makes me laugh. Science it may be, but an EXACT science it is not. Your just as likely to get the details of the rain fall from a wishing well as you are from any of them, at least anything that is more than 2 hours in the future for them to "try" predict"
 
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Pssst BCO, you said:
I've posted this before (directly from the IPCC):

"Most of the observed increase in globally averaged temperatures since the mid-20th century is very likely due to the observed increase in anthropogenic (human) greenhouse gas concentrations."

In IPCC statements "most" means greater than 50%, "likely" means at least a 66% likelihood, and "very likely" means at least a 90% likelihood
I can't find this ' "most" most means greater than 50% '. Could you perhaps help with the data or reference within this lengthy IPCC report?

One thing I do know, is this thread shows a severe lack of scientific education in South Africa (on all levels), and an almost complete lack of understanding how science works. I guess too many guys played rugby and did woodwork in school. Saying that, there are some very bright minds here that know how science works and I even include Phronesis in that bunch.
Am I supposed to be happy about someone commenting about me and ignores me by putting me in their slanderous "ignore" list? So much for trying to have a conversation with this "scientifically educated", "scientifically enlightened" and "bright" individual :erm:.
 
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Pssst BCO, you said:

I can't find this ' "most" most means greater than 50% '. Could you perhaps help with the data or reference within this lengthy IPCC report?

That's actually a good point, as it's only the Wikipedia article on the IPCC that seems to say that most is >50%.

Very vague and unsatisfactory as it stands. Going to have to try and get some clarity on this one.

Let's see if anyone over at Physics Forums can help out:

http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?p=2456172#post2456172
 
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Or even better look at the IPCC fourth assessment report and the endorsement of every major scientific body on earth.

Your two links are irrelevant - the one by Phrony says nothing about AGW skepticism, merely highlights a lack of knowledge on the current drivers of cooling. The one from Pitbull's from a blogger. Besides, they're a long way off from "thousands of scientists".

Evidently you have a lot of anecdotal evidence to fall back on but I'm far more willing to base my opinion on explicit position statements from relevant authorities, among other things.

There are some interesting surveys on "consensus" too:

Here we go again.....

Those graphs you know are from a body that measures global temps. They are based in the UK and accepted as a global standard together with 2 other companies ;) No matter where the graph is quoted it's TRUE.

I also provided you with factual data saying the oceans have been higher and lower before meaning the "extremes" we are talking about now which has been caused by "us" have been worse before without our help (Co2) So if our Co2 is causing some effect, we haven't seen it yet.

That must be one large group of hoaxers going around the world melting all the ice then:rolleyes: Global warming is happening. Climate change is happening. Ice is melting on every continent.

Whether you choose your beliefs or not is irrelevant to me. Its happening with or without your belief or lack of belief in it. You are the kinda person who chooses your beliefs (as I said.. the usual crowd), I get reality shoved down my throat.

One thing that I do know, ignorance is not argued into people, so therefore it can not be argued out of them. So forgive me if I dont engage you again.

One thing I do know, is this thread shows a severe lack of scientific education in South Africa (on all levels), and an almost complete lack of understanding how science works. I guess too many guys played rugby and did woodwork in school. Saying that, there are some very bright minds here that know how science works and I even include Phronesis in that bunch. Just most South Africans have no clue (thats not ment to be insulting, thats the reality of our culture) about the scientific method or the scientific community. We live in the country of Heat and People magazine culture. Too little science too much woodwork.

Now I know a bunch of you are already thinking of all the scientific contributions we have contributed and that we are currently involved in.. but thats an extremely tiny percentage of the population that contributed that to humanity, and they would have understood that climate change is happening.

And here his greaness humbles us again with his un-ending insight. We have supplied more than enough evidence to confirm that this whole "Global warming" was nothing more than a Warm cycle which is now changing to the Cold Cycle. Now instead of coming in here and spewing crap like you do in each and every thread which requires a little degree of education, why don't you part take in the conversation like an adult?

You also lack the abillity to read through a thread of close to 150 posts :confused:

We have all admitted that the CO2 imprint we create can/does have an affect on the degree of heat/cold on earth. However, there is no way of measuring what degree of change it does. The world has been warmer than it is now and it's been cooler than it is now. It's there just like your fossels in your Evolution claims. It won't/can't go away. The oceans used to be higer than they are now = Hotter than it is now. The oceans was allot lower before = More Cooler than now.

So pls, get your head out of your arse and contribute for once.... Your snotty remarks does nothing to any debate. Come show us your superior higher mental abillities. Don't be scared to be out played by "retards" :p
 
@ Phrony:

These are the responses I got re. "most" on Physicsforums:

Since 1750 anthropogenic warming has resulted in
a net positive forcing of +1.6 [+0.6 to +2.4] W m–2.

Over the same time, solar changes have contributed +0.12 [0.06 to 0.3] W m-2.

[1.6]/[1.6+.12] => 93%

So, since 1750, humans have most likely caused about 93% of the warming.

Most of the solar increases occurred prior to 1950 or so and
solar activity is currently very low. So, the amount of
warming from human causes since 1950 maybe greater
than 100%. In other words, there may have been
global cooling since the 1950's without human intervention.

It doesn't have a specific meaning it's just a summary, it's there for the usual legal wiggle reasons.
if they said "All the observed increase in global average temperatures since the mid-20th century ...' then some country could come along and say:
- But the temperature rise in one area of Hawaii is due to a volcano erupting, therefore the report contains a false statement, therefore it's all wrong and we can all get new bigger SUVs
 
It appears that someone from the inside of the Global Warming alarmists camp has leaked some documents and emails that reveals how the numbers are manipulated.

The leak has been admitted to and that "hackers" are responsible and the contents of the documents are legit as revealed here.

you can read some of the suspect emails and documents here

Global Warming is real. However, it was completely blown out of proportion. I'm so glad the truth is coming out.
 
Here we go again.....

Those graphs you know are from a body that measures global temps. They are based in the UK and accepted as a global standard together with 2 other companies ;) No matter where the graph is quoted it's TRUE.

I'm not sure whether Watts got the graphs from GISS and Hadley or if he got the data and then created his own graphs. If the latter is the case, what methods did he use to plot the graph? Besides, as I showed, newer graphs indicate that the downward trend did not continue.

I also provided you with factual data saying the oceans have been higher and lower before meaning the "extremes" we are talking about now which has been caused by "us" have been worse before without our help (Co2) So if our Co2 is causing some effect, we haven't seen it yet.

We have seen an effect - AGW theory argues (with data to back it up) that if it weren't for anthropgenic greenhouse gases, it's likely that we would be in an extended period (i.e since 1950-ish) of cooling. Yes, the sea level has been higher before, but back then we didn't have billions of people living in coastal cities. It's kind of a hassle to have to move massive numbers of people and infrastructure around. Other projected effects of warming aren't just oceans rising either.
 
I'm not sure whether Watts got the graphs from GISS and Hadley or if he got the data and then created his own graphs. If the latter is the case, what methods did he use to plot the graph? Besides, as I showed, newer graphs indicate that the downward trend did not continue.



We have seen an effect - AGW theory argues (with data to back it up) that if it weren't for anthropgenic greenhouse gases, it's likely that we would be in an extended period (i.e since 1950-ish) of cooling. Yes, the sea level has been higher before, but back then we didn't have billions of people living in coastal cities. It's kind of a hassle to have to move massive numbers of people and infrastructure around. Other projected effects of warming aren't just oceans rising either.

That graph was done by HadCRUT

Ok let's stop here for a second.

For the oceans to have been higher that would mean it needed to be warmer right? And we didn't part take in that "Global Warming" But now we are?
 
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