Godsell blasts garnishee orders

[R13...]

Education, get information from the original judgement to enforce the "in duplum rule". Help the staff start a stokvel. And the hardest is get them not sign cellphone contracts.
ISCOR used to have a staff association years ago which helped get goods in bulk and pass that on. It was called IEMAS I see they are still going things like that help.

I'm surprised companies as big as those in the platinum sector don't offer personal financial education to workers. But I suspect it's a problem of keeping up with the Shabalalas which is very prevalent in this country and not limited to low wage mine workers.

 

[Ianf1]

And if the workers still cause grief for you, as employer, by going on strikes, causing you to lose extra contracts or income?

Let them suffer the consequences of their own actions.

What you want is the right attitude to start, sure there will be strikes and must be dealt with properly. What you want to do is avoid getting to that position. Google has great staff benefits I wonder if the employees there have been on strike.

 

[Ianf1]

And if the workers still cause grief for you, as employer, by going on strikes, causing you to lose extra contracts or income?

Let them suffer the consequences of their own actions.

What you want is the right attitude to start, sure there will be strikes and must be dealt with properly. What you want to do is avoid getting to that position. Google has great staff benefits I wonder if the employees there have been on strike.

 

[ttygt]

What if I told you that the employer gets to keep 17.5% of the amount of the garnish he has to pay over. every month.

YES. The employer gets paid to do this.

And belief me, they ALL keep this 17.5% for THEMSELVES, not the employee.

 

[ttygt]

double

 

[dlk001]

And so bad decisions by workers becomes the employer's problem

Absolutely. We measure (HR departments) workers at risk (financial problems, sick leave out of control, poor living conditions, eating habits, alcohol abuse, fatigue) because they affect the state of the workers which impact on Safety of everyone.

 

[SoulTax]

Correct me if I'm wrong, the "garnishee order" is a legal thing... so companies would ignore it at their own peril?

A court issued Garnishee order is a legal thing. This article seems to be talking about the Financial institution going directly to the company ceo/manager and appealing for a garnishee order. I would also tell them to sod off until a court issued order is given.

 

[dlk001]

Ultimately yes, you want staff who are productive and receive the bulk of their earnings at month end. This is about managing your staff for maximum productivity and so why not help them were you can.

For us, its about managing the safety risk. We know that garnishee orders (stress), sick leave out of control, fatigue, bad living conditions affect the behaviour of the worker and will impact SAFETY.

Garnishee orders is one of our leading indicators for stress and fatigue which impact mine safety.

 

[Vrotappel]

What if I told you that the employer gets to keep 17.5% of the amount of the garnish he has to pay over. every month.

YES. The employer gets paid to do this.

And belief me, they ALL keep this 17.5% for THEMSELVES, not the employee.

BS

 

[Vrotappel]

The moment lending rules is tightened (to protect the ignorant workers) they will be striking because they are excluded from the economy and it will be turned into a racist issue as such rules will mostly affect black workers.

 

[The_Unbeliever]

What if I told you that the employer gets to keep 17.5% of the amount of the garnish he has to pay over. every month.

YES. The employer gets paid to do this.

And belief me, they ALL keep this 17.5% for THEMSELVES, not the employee.

:wtf: where do you get this?

 

[Sly21C]

I blame micro lenders, lawyers and magistrate clerks for what happened in Marikana, and for what is currently happening to many uneducated poor South Africans.

Jannie Mutton, founder of PSG, once said in an interview that when he invested in Capitec Bank, he bought close to 200 small micro lenders all around the country. At one point he became the biggest micro lender in the country. All those micro lending businesses where changed to Capitec bank, which offered more finance services than just micro loans. So companies such as African Bank and Capitec are mostly to blame for many poor people being indebted.

Miners are mostly uneducated, so it's easy for them to be fooled and taken for a ride. They are given loans irresponsibly by micro lenders. Once miners can't pay up anymore because of high interest rates, the micro lender approaches a lawyer to help recoup their monies. Lawyers will then organize with (sometimes corrupt) clerks at a magistrates court to prepare a garnishee order letter which will be sent to an employer. The final loan amount is then inflated because lawyers' fees are added. So you might find a miner owes R5000, but after lawyers get involved, the miner might end up owing R20 000. Garnishee orders are done, and sometimes entire salaries are deducted. This is all criminal!

 

[ttygt]

BS

BS?

Ignorance on your side.

 

[ttygt]

:wtf: where do you get this?

I "get this" from the RSA Acts, as written by Parliament, and enforced by businesses.

 

[ttygt]

I blame micro lenders, lawyers and magistrate clerks for what happened in Marikana, and for what is currently happening to many uneducated poor South Africans.

Jannie Mutton, founder of PSG, once said in an interview that when he invested in Capitec Bank, he bought close to 200 small micro lenders all around the country. At one point he became the biggest micro lender in the country. All those micro lending businesses where changed to Capitec bank, which offered more finance services than just micro loans. So companies such as African Bank and Capitec are mostly to blame for many poor people being indebted.

Miners are mostly uneducated, so it's easy for them to be fooled and taken for a ride. They are given loans irresponsibly by micro lenders. Once miners can't pay up anymore because of high interest rates, the micro lender approaches a lawyer to help recoup their monies. Lawyers will then organize with (sometimes corrupt) clerks at a magistrates court to prepare a garnishee order letter which will be sent to an employer. The final loan amount is then inflated because lawyers' fees are added. So you might find a miner owes R5000, but after lawyers get involved, the miner might end up owing R20 000. Garnishee orders are done, and sometimes entire salaries are deducted. This is all criminal!

You are talking nonsense.
There are very clearly defined rules written in the ACT, which defines all possible costs that can be recovered, and your example is pure BS.

 

[dlk001]

I blame micro lenders, lawyers and magistrate clerks for what happened in Marikana, and for what is currently happening to many uneducated poor South Africans.

Miners are mostly uneducated, so it's easy for them to be fooled and taken for a ride. They are given loans irresponsibly by micro lenders. Once miners can't pay up anymore because of high interest rates, the micro lender approaches a lawyer to help recoup their monies.!

I will make you another example with respect to one of our subsidiaries, Kumba Iron Ore. A year before the Envision payout, micro lenders, insurance companies, car companies increased their presence around operations. On many occasions micro lenders are spotted inside our mining premises operating illegally. They were already giving employees cash loans a year before the shares were paid.

Every year, around March, August, you will see an increase in micro lenders, crime, random telephone calls from financial services providers because they anticipate Share dividend payouts.

On an interesting note, Kumba Iron Ore spent 6 months training employees about financial fitness, micro lenders, crime etc. We even involve local Banks and SAPS to train people about crime and safety. A survey was conducted and only 4% staff indicated they would buy cars with their dividend payout. Another survey after dividend payout indicated that 54% staff bought cars. We actually don't have enough space for car parking. This is the attitude of lower and higher level employees.

 

[Sly21C]

You are talking nonsense.
There are very clearly defined rules written in the ACT, which defines all possible costs that can be recovered, and your example is pure BS.

In reality rules are broken buddy, and these greedy lawyers are good at it. So you are saying there has never been a case whereby someone owes a certain amount of money to a certain company, and then having to pay up to 10 times that amount after lawyers get involved?

Is the following nonsense? http://www.moneyweb.co.za/moneyweb-financial/platinum-miner-repays-r11690-on-r1000-loan

I will make you another example with respect to one of our subsidiaries, Kumba Iron Ore. A year before the Envision payout, micro lenders, insurance companies, car companies increased their presence around operations. On many occasions micro lenders are spotted inside our mining premises operating illegally. They were already giving employees cash loans a year before the shares were paid.

Every year, around March, August, you will see an increase in micro lenders, crime, random telephone calls from financial services providers because they anticipate Share dividend payouts.

On an interesting note, Kumba Iron Ore spent 6 months training employees about financial fitness, micro lenders, crime etc. We even involve local Banks and SAPS to train people about crime and safety. A survey was conducted and only 4% staff indicated they would buy cars with their dividend payout. Another survey after dividend payout indicated that 54% staff bought cars. We actually don't have enough space for car parking. This is the attitude of lower and higher level employees.

Micro lenders are immoral criminals, worse than Malema. I blame them for the lose of 45 lives in Marikana. I wonder why the farlam Commission hasn't had micro lenders, lawyers, and everyone else questioned about their involvement in giving loans to unsophisticated people who wouldn't have afforded to pay them back.

It's fantastic that Kumba Iron Ore is trying their best to educate their staff regarding personal finance, among other things. The fact that 54% of those who received dividend payouts bought cars shows how clever and cunning these micro lenders, car dealerships, etc, are.

 

[The_Assimilator]

The fact that 54% of those who received dividend payouts bought cars shows how clever and cunning these micro lenders, car dealerships, etc, are.

Uh, no. It shows that the efforts that Kumba is making to educate their workers are for naught because said workers are too ignorant to learn. Even if the lenders are offering illegal products/terms, no-one is forcing the miners to accept those products. Stop trying to make the miners' fiscal irresponsibility the fault of the lenders.