Going the Virtual route.

[EasyUp Web Hosting]

Hey Guys,

I am busy looking into Virtualization of some of our clients server. Couple of questions though.

1. Whom in SA sells this product?
2. What is the difference between VM Ware Server and ESXi?
3. From what I have seen, ESXi doesn't need a host OS. Does it install like an OS?
4. Start from scratch (new OS install and AD/exchange setup) or convert current hardware to VM? I really want to do a clean install, cause I am struggling with getting rid of a virus on the exchange server, but all the effort... Joining all the pc again, creating the users.... Luckily the client isn't that big, 2 server and about 20 users.
5. Backups and AV. I assume you still need an AV on the servers. Backup the VM or still normal backups?

 

[Park@82]

3. From what I have seen, ESXi doesn't need a host OS. Does it install like an OS?

Yes ESX/ESXi is a hypervisor and does not require a host OS like e.g. VMware workstation does, and yes it is pretty easy to install. BTW XENserver from Citrix is an alternative that might be worth looking into. Also speak to Conradl he knows a lot about these things... http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/member.php?71630-Conradl

 

[ironstone]

you get 'type 1' (Native) and 'type 2' (Hosted) virtualization. (check wikipedia. good info... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_machine)
either way, the 'virtualization' software / layer is called the 'hypervisor'.
ESXi is native - direct on the hardware, then 'guest' machines on top of that. VMWare Server & Workstation are type 2 - on top of existing OS (Win, Lin etc)
ito performance, as i have it, 1st prize is native. 2nd, type 2 on linux. 3rd, type 2 on windows (this is why MS 'open sourced' some of their HyperV code, seeking a performance improvement)
VMWare is a recognized leader in the field. (no exp with Citrix, so can't vouch, but sounds awesome too).
VMWare ESXi, Server and Workstation are all 'free' to download and toy around with, which is cool.
You only pay when you start going for full-fledged solutions that take care of HighAvailability, centralized administration etc.
Their full blown suite is quite something... read up on V-Motion for instance !

Big thing to cover in the test phase (without their full fledged solutions) is your backup strategy. You loose 1 physical machine, and all guests on there are gone. (We run backups for now as though each guest were a physical server).
other than that - guests are they're like separate 'physical' servers. still need AV etc

 

[ironstone]

ito who sells... gotta be a few vendors partners. AST or TCM are two i know of.

 

[ironstone]

sorry - another thing. there's this 'P2V' tool VMWare has. stands for 'physical to virtual'. it 'migrates' and existing physical server - "as is" - over to a virtual machine / guest. so no need for a full reinstall / re-setup. quite funky !
takes ages to run though, by my exp. but works. strips out all the 'hardware dependent' drivers etc and leaves the rest of the OS, installed apps, cofig & setup - the lot - in tact.

also, with any virtual architecture, seems the way you gotta go is NAS or SAN, and not 'internal' storage. this is about where i am in my 'research' now. looking at options (including open source solutions) so if anyone can comment - i'd appreciate.
true SAN's are damned pricey ! "SANmelody" seems an affordable alternative, and i'm also checking out "Openfiler"

 

[EasyUp Web Hosting]

Hey Guys,

Thanx for all the replies. Quite useful info.

The client is prepared to spend some money, but not enough for a san.

Also, from what I've read, ESXi is "vol k@k" with some hardware. The reason why I mention this, is because the client currently has a Mecer server, specs are pretty good for what they are going to do, but the server currently has Seagate ES Sata drives in. Think max it can go is 4, iirc. Should I look for 4x velociraptor drives (think it is the cheaper option) or go for SAS drives and controller.

ironstone, you mention that the VMware stuff is free to play with, is it a trial version then? I don't think we will go for V-motion and that stuff, as it offers a lot more than we need, so it's paying for something that we won't use...

PS: I know conradl knows a lot about these things, I am kinda a stalker of his knowledge.

 

[ironstone]

...is it a trial version then?

No - it's full featured, and you can run it in a production environment etc. Their web site says "VMware ESXi is the easiest way to get started with virtualization—and it’s free." Sounds like it wold work well for you, as the client only has 2 servers. You don't need to overkill.

 

[Conradl]

Hey Guys,

I am busy looking into Virtualization of some of our clients server. Couple of questions though.

1. Whom in SA sells this product?
2. What is the difference between VM Ware Server and ESXi?
3. From what I have seen, ESXi doesn't need a host OS. Does it install like an OS?
4. Start from scratch (new OS install and AD/exchange setup) or convert current hardware to VM? I really want to do a clean install, cause I am struggling with getting rid of a virus on the exchange server, but all the effort... Joining all the pc again, creating the users.... Luckily the client isn't that big, 2 server and about 20 users.
5. Backups and AV. I assume you still need an AV on the servers. Backup the VM or still normal backups?

To answer some of you questions:

1. We do. We sell CitrixXenServer - although you can get the fully functional free edition from Citrix.com, or I could bring you a copy. The free version is fully functional and has XenMotion (live migration between physical machine), no limits wrt CPU/memory etc. The non-free version has HA which you may or may not need. Not yet on our DA site - long story involving two companies SOA - but we are certified
2. As mentioned above, one is type one and the other type two. Server requires an OS installed, ESXi does not. XenServer is a type one and also requires no OS.
3. Yes
4. P2V an ADC = asking for trouble, heartache pain and suffering. Rather build a new one and DCPROMO it.
5. Backups require a physical server, depending on if you back up to tape, and if your tape is not network compatible. I assume that it is not, although different products require different backup strategies depending on the hypervisor capabilities.

Openfiler is awesome for smaller deployments, SANMelody is good, but not free and runs on windows.... For disks try to stay away from software/FakeRAID, non-windows machines may or may not see the array, but will see single disks instead. Raptors are no good, go for SATA or SAS, although for your site, SATA would be the way to go, with a decent hardware RAID controller.

Also consider you licensing - what licenses does you customer have?

TA P82

 

[EasyUp Web Hosting]

Hey Conradl,

Thanx for the info.

The server that I am going to use has got 2x500GB Sata and 2x1TB Sata drives in. The server has an Intel Mobo, but sure which one though and I am pretty sure you need to know to tell me if the raid controller is any good. Do you have a quick guide to tell me what is FakeRAID? Is my Asus Rampage II Gene raid controller classed as FakeRAID?

Maybe we should speak some more and you guys can come in and do the work for me?

 

[davemc]

Sharkbait, that server sounds like it is not using hardware that has VM extensions build into it.

Have a closer look at that hardware and the VM software guys recommendations regarding VM extensions on the CPU and motherboard.
A simple change of CPU and motherboard on my side improved performance of my VM's 4 times.

 

[spiderz]

VM ESXi requires a 64 bit processor if I'm not mistaken. (That finicky hardware issue you mentioned.) So it does not work on my old P3 servers.

FakeRAID is probably software raids. They are not bad, but not nearly as good as hardware raid. (performance wise)
The Raid on that Mecer server will most likely be SCSI based and not SATA. So you'll need to get a decent SATA raid card.

 

[Conradl]

Hey Conradl,

Thanx for the info.

The server that I am going to use has got 2x500GB Sata and 2x1TB Sata drives in. The server has an Intel Mobo, but sure which one though and I am pretty sure you need to know to tell me if the raid controller is any good. Do you have a quick guide to tell me what is FakeRAID? Is my Asus Rampage II Gene raid controller classed as FakeRAID?

Maybe we should speak some more and you guys can come in and do the work for me?

Yes your Gene two is fakeRAID. FakeRAID is basically a bios extension that allows the windows driver to see two drives configured in the BIOS, as a single drive; whereas real RAID has a dedicated RAID processor and RAM. If you do not have the correct driver, then the OS will simple see two drives. Most consumer level boards are FakeRAID, anything with HostRAID from adaptec is FakeRAID. An entry level hardware RAID controller will cost around 2k - so you can use that as a benchmark. Also note that you can buy a FakeRAID PCI card - do not be fooled into believing that it is RealRAID.

PM, email or call me - we are more than happy to assist where possible.

 

[Conradl]

The most important factor in determining CPU suitability is VT (all processors with VT are 64bit). Without VT you will not be able to run Windows based VMs, although Linux will work fine....

 

[EasyUp Web Hosting]

Did a quick CPUz on the server:

Number of processors 2
Number of threads 8
Name Intel Xeon E5405
Codename Harpertown
Specification Intel(R) Xeon(R) CPU E5405 @ 2.00GHz
Package (platform ID) Socket 771 LGA (0x6)

Chipset
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mainboard Model S5000VSA
Northbridge Intel 5000V rev. B1
Southbridge Intel 6321ESB rev. 09
Memory Type FB-DDR2
Memory Size 4096 MBytes
Memory Frequency 332.5 MHz (1:1)

Link for mobo: http://www.intel.com/Products/Server/Motherboards/S5000VSA/S5000VSA-specifications.htm
CPUs have VT: http://ark.intel.com/Product.aspx?id=33079

So, I think this server is fine for what I want to do, the only thing that bugs me, is HDD performance... What I can do is run Raid 0 on the 2x500GB and 2x1TB drives...?

 

[Conradl]

RAID0 is a terrible idea. If one disk fails then you loose all your machines. RAID1 will be fine for that size environment...

 

[EasyUp Web Hosting]

Yeah, but I will be backing up snapshots of the servers, as the whole idea behind this is, when we have a hardware failure, I can copy the files to another server have have minimal downtime.

 

[Conradl]

Just be very careful of using snaps for backups - the short and skinny below:

In the old days if you wanted to upgrade a service pack, for example, you would have to make a system backup (using GHOST, Acronis or something similar). If the upgrade crapped out, then you would restore the image and the machine would work.

Backup software essentially works by flushing memory to disk, thus creating a consistent copy of the resource on disk (be it a file, database etc), and backing up the consistent disk copy of said resource to another location.

Snapshots work by writing memory to disk, making the virtual disk read only and then writing delta changes to the new "snap" disk. It does not quiesce the resource and leave it in a consistent state. End result is that you could have a situation where the disk, vmem file and actual data are out of sync, and things deteriorate from there. Snapshots are a good enabler of backup technology - but they require VERY careful planning, management and execution to work correctly - and should not be used in isolation, without some other form of backup system (even if that system is simply a script to quiesce the db - including AD).

Snaps are perfect for the first scenario, where you need to create a point -in-time backup for easy recovery of a certain scenario - not so much for recovering a system in 6 months time when a disk fails.

 

[EasyUp Web Hosting]

Well, currently we use ntbackup for backups. Is it worth it spending R5k+ on backup exec?

 

[Elvis007]

VM ESXi requires a 64 bit processor if I'm not mistaken. (That finicky hardware issue you mentioned.) So it does not work on my old P3 servers.

FakeRAID is probably software raids. They are not bad, but not nearly as good as hardware raid. (performance wise)
The Raid on that Mecer server will most likely be SCSI based and not SATA. So you'll need to get a decent SATA raid card.

Nope, does not need 64bit, think your hardware was just to old. I installed ESXi on a P4 with HT, no 64bit...

 

[EasyUp Web Hosting]

But you will need 64bit if you are going to use more than 4gig ram...?