Goodbye iMac

vinodh

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Also, the Taskbar does do the same thing as the Menu Bar - other than the menu options which rightfully belong inside apps.
Touchpads are irrelevant to me. I use a mouse, even when working on a laptop.

Menu options belonging inside apps is just your personal choice and does not suit everyone.

I prefer the gesture based trackpads found on Macs and never use a mouse on my MacBook. Even my Mac Mini has a separate trackpad and not a mouse. Also personal choice, by the way.
 
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mmmm, saw the first sentence "As a PC user I need to come to Apple's defence here." and then saw the long story, scrolled and saw "In short". I tend to skip long stories and skip to the "in short" or "TL;DR version". Sorry. Can you maybe sum the part up that I missed...:whistling:

It's in the part you quoted, you just didn't bold it...

Touchpads are irrelevant to me. I use a mouse, even when working on a laptop.

When using any Windows laptop I agree with you fully. When using a Macbook Pro I disagree, there's no need for a mouse.
 

PostmanPot

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Touchpads are irrelevant to me. I use a mouse, even when working on a laptop.

Then I suggest you Google for info about Apple's unparalleled Trackpads.

You're very good at Googling for info! Who needs experience with devices, when one can just Google to understand the full experience.
 

Johnatan56

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Then I suggest you Google for info about Apple's unparalleled Trackpads.

You're very good at Googling for info! Who needs experience with devices, when one can just Google to understand the full experience.

I would love for you to post an article on that, though an article based on the last ~ year. You are saying they are great, back it up please.
I don't use a Mac, but on my windows laptop I like using the trackpad to scroll, you can just use two fingers to scroll, way nicer than using the mouse wheel when browsing web pages. Otherwise Mouse > Trackpad.
 

Bryn

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Then I suggest you Google for info about Apple's unparalleled Trackpads.

You're very good at Googling for info! Who needs experience with devices, when one can just Google to understand the full experience.

I've used most of the popular devices out there. Dunno what the hell you're talking about. The trackpads in Apple laptops are certainly very usable as far as trackpads go, but I don't know why anyone would prefer that over a mouse. I haven't used a Force Touch one, but I assume those just mimic a click. And I assume the standalone unit is the same as what is in the laptops.
 

PostmanPot

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I would love for you to post an article on that, though an article based on the last ~ year. You are saying they are great, back it up please.
I don't use a Mac, but on my windows laptop I like using the trackpad to scroll, you can just use two fingers to scroll, way nicer than using the mouse wheel when browsing web pages. Otherwise Mouse > Trackpad.

If you love to scroll, you'll love Mac Trackpads. They're in another league, no Windows high end laptop comes close. And I'm sure you'll enjoy finding out the many other cool things you can use the Apple Trackpad for.

I've used most of the popular devices out there. Dunno what the hell you're talking about. The trackpads in Apple laptops are certainly very usable as far as trackpads go, but I don't know why anyone would prefer that over a mouse. I haven't used a Force Touch one, but I assume those just mimic a click. And I assume the standalone unit is the same as what is in the laptops.

✓ Used
✗ Owned
✗ Experience
 
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I've used most of the popular devices out there. Dunno what the hell you're talking about. The trackpads in Apple laptops are certainly very usable as far as trackpads go, but I don't know why anyone would prefer that over a mouse. I haven't used a Force Touch one, but I assume those just mimic a click. And I assume the standalone unit is the same as what is in the laptops.

The point is that, unlike with any Wintel laptop, you don't need to use a mouse with the Macbook touchpad, not that you should go out of your way to use the touchpad instead of a mouse.
 

Cassady

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I've used most of the popular devices out there. Dunno what the hell you're talking about. The trackpads in Apple laptops are certainly very usable as far as trackpads go, but I don't know why anyone would prefer that over a mouse. I haven't used a Force Touch one, but I assume those just mimic a click. And I assume the standalone unit is the same as what is in the laptops.

Trackpads might lose some accuracy i.t.o. small area work (mostly Excel), but in almost all other regards, the trackpad is far more versatile. On OSX, it's in a different league due to its integration. Add in BTT, and the manipulation of apps and the OS opens up far more possibilities that would ever be possible in Windows.

An often overlooked value-add to Mac, is the software. There are some seriously well-made apps that are significantly cheaper (and often superior) to what is on offer on Windows. Case in point are the Windows equivalents of Textexpander, Alfred/Launchbar, Keyboard Maestro, Hazel (by Noodlesoft) - these apps offer the possibility of inter/intra-app workflows that are simply impossible on Windows.

The price difference is more than made up for with the potential gains made daily by simply being more efficient and productive, relatively speaking, than what would otherwise be possible.
 
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I feel I have said too much good about Apple and need to bring some balance back into the equation. My PC is better than anything Crapple can offer and the iPhone sucks :p
 

Bryn

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✓ Used
✗ Owned
✗ Experience

If you've used something then you've experienced it, even if not to its fullest extent. Are you saying the trackpad starts giving head after you've used it for a while?

And where's the value for non-laptop users?

[XC] Oj101;17052992 said:
The point is that, unlike with any Wintel laptop, you don't need to use a mouse with the Macbook touchpad, not that you should go out of your way to use the touchpad instead of a mouse.

If at all possible, I use a desktop PC. All this talk about trackpads doesn't help me much.

Trackpads might lose some accuracy i.t.o. small area work (mostly Excel), but in almost all other regards, the trackpad is far more versatile. On OSX, it's in a different league due to its integration. Add in BTT, and the manipulation of apps and the OS opens up far more possibilities that would ever be possible in Windows.

An often overlooked value-add to Mac, is the software. There are some seriously well-made apps that are significantly cheaper (and often superior) to what is on offer on Windows. Case in point are the Windows equivalents of Textexpander, Alfred/Launchbar, Keyboard Maestro, Hazel (by Noodlesoft) - these apps offer the possibility of inter/intra-app workflows that are simply impossible on Windows.

The price difference is more than made up for with the potential gains made daily by simply being more efficient and productive, relatively speaking, than what would otherwise be possible.

Windows is ridiculously customisable. I'm sure you can find what you're looking for somewhere. For example, most of the new features in Windows 10 (like snapping windows, multiple desktops etc.) have been around for years.

I do a lot of stuff on my PC, and I'm really not sure where the obvious bottleneck is that a Mac might circumvent. Creative Cloud, Visual Studio, Brackets, Office 365 etc. have or are great apps and I can access and switch between them as fast as I can click. My Stardock apps hugely increase the customisability of Windows, and I have it set up just how I like it.

Also, I use a desktop 99% of the time I'm on a PC. Trackpads don't mean much to me.
 

Cassady

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Windows is ridiculously customisable. I'm sure you can find what you're looking for somewhere. For example, most of the new features in Windows 10 (like snapping windows, multiple desktops etc.) have been around for years.

I do a lot of stuff on my PC, and I'm really not sure where the obvious bottleneck is that a Mac might circumvent. Creative Cloud, Visual Studio, Brackets, Office 365 etc. have or are great apps and I can access and switch between them as fast as I can click. My Stardock apps hugely increase the customisability of Windows, and I have it set up just how I like it.

Yup. Having started on MS-DOS, and passed through the various iterations, I finally jumped ship at Win 7/8. Haven't really had much time on Win10, and I hear it's a good OS. Believe me when I say, I understand how customizable Windows is.

But here's the thing - knowing what I know now, I find Windows to be more sandboxed than OSX! Crazy-speak, I know, but it's true.

As much as Windows allows one to tweak stuff, and as good as some of the software is at helping you get maximum efficiency out of *a* particular App, OSX simply blows it out of the water by allowing one to construct workflows BETWEEN separate apps. Its UNIX base simply allows 3rd party apps to leverage far more from the OS, than what is possible in Windows.
 

HavocXphere

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Gaming on a mac...even the console peasants are more credible.

200_s.gif

That said if you don't plan on gaming then I can see a mac working out.
 

Johnatan56

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Yup. Having started on MS-DOS, and passed through the various iterations, I finally jumped ship at Win 7/8. Haven't really had much time on Win10, and I hear it's a good OS. Believe me when I say, I understand how customizable Windows is.

But here's the thing - knowing what I know now, I find Windows to be more sandboxed than OSX! Crazy-speak, I know, but it's true.

As much as Windows allows one to tweak stuff, and as good as some of the software is at helping you get maximum efficiency out of *a* particular App, OSX simply blows it out of the water by allowing one to construct workflows BETWEEN separate apps. Its UNIX base simply allows 3rd party apps to leverage far more from the OS, than what is possible in Windows.

Huh? Windows allows you to pretty much anything you want to the system. What do you mean by your statement. (I don't take your second part credibly. That totally depends on the software. And by integration, what do you mean by that?)

You are saying a ton of things are better than the other, but give some examples please.
You guys say Mac integration with the touchpad is better, yet you don't actually say how so when that is specifically what I asked. This all seems to be too fanboyish.
And software tweaks: You can make your windows pc look/feel like a OSX machine if you wanted to, just get the tweak.


Do you mean gestures like this:
trackpad.png

(Not saying Windows is better than OSX, I just want to know where you are coming from, as in what do you think is so much better.)
 

PostmanPot

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Huh? Windows allows you to pretty much anything you want to the system. What do you mean by your statement. (I don't take your second part credibly. That totally depends on the software. And by integration, what do you mean by that?)

You are saying a ton of things are better than the other, but give some examples please.
You guys say Mac integration with the touchpad is better, yet you don't actually say how so when that is specifically what I asked. This all seems to be too fanboyish.
And software tweaks: You can make your windows pc look/feel like a OSX machine if you wanted to, just get the tweak.


Do you mean gestures like this:
View attachment 339646

(Not saying Windows is better than OSX, I just want to know where you are coming from, as in what do you think is so much better.)

I don't use a Mac...

You remind me of myself from just a few years ago. I didn't use Mac, never owned one or spent extensive time with one, yet I told Mac users that they were wrong, stupid, wasting money, had the same thing as me, etc.
 

Johnatan56

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You remind me of myself from just a few years ago. I didn't use Mac, never owned one or spent extensive time with one, yet I told Mac users that they were wrong, stupid, wasting money, had the same thing as me, etc.

You completely missed my question.
 

SauRoNZA

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42% of Americans play at least 3 hours of games per week. And the worldwide PC gaming market surpassed the combined worldwide console and handheld gaming market in revenue in 2014 and has stayed ahead. The average age of gamers is 35 years.

Three common stats that strongly suggest that the market for PC gaming is massive.


And nobody said or argued otherwise.

I was simply saying that a large part of the Mac vs PC comparison only comes into play when you want to play games on it.

If you don't, then the stats aren't a problem.
 

PostmanPot

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You completely missed my question.

I realise that. I'm just highlighting the fundamental issue here, which is zero experience.

In response to your screenshots FWIW. You can trust us when we say that Windows cannot do it. Remember that the software is only half of the story. The high quality hardware being the other.

NI2NUZwl.png


Ce5Sry0l.png


qq0HTnvl.png
 

SauRoNZA

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Having to install third party Software to scroll an unfocused window is enough to keep me on OSX.

Maybe Win10 finally fixed that, I can't remember.
 
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I am specifically talking about the physical feel of the touchpad, eg how sliding your finger across it always remains smooth for the duration of the life of the laptop, how it has a very sturdy click with the same travel distance no matter where on the touchpad you click, how clicking doesn't cause the cursor to move AT ALL (use a Lenovo laptop with the clickable touchpad and you'll know exactly what I mean), etc. It's also not just any single one of these factors, but all of them combined into one.

Combine that with the build quality of a Macbook Pro - for example, lifting the screen can be done without having to hold down the bottom half of the laptop to prevent it from coming with while at the same time being stiff enough to to fall about), the battery life, the brilliant screen.

Add to that the brilliant efficiencies in both the OS (try running two copies in parallel from the same hard drive to the same flash drive to understand what I mean) and certain OSX-only software such as shown in this video (the render speed has nothing to do with the hardware or OS and everything to do with the program at hand):

[video=youtube;KnapaZYD2cU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnapaZYD2cU[/video]

Wrap that up with the simply brilliant Time Machine which allows you to backup from one Mac and restore to any other without the need to worry about drivers, etc, the low virus infection rate, how incredibly Parallels allows Windows integration, how logical and simple installing or uninstalling software can be (Want to install? Drag to Applications. Want to remove? Drag to Trash), locational IP addresses (eg you can set manual IP addresses for home, work, a friend's place, etc and it will automatically swap to the applicable static IP address, gateway, subnet and DNS settings for the network you connect to - there is no way to do this in Windows without some advanced scripting) and more and you understand why I respect and love the Macbook Pro as a package more than any Wintel laptop available.

I'm no blind Apple fanboy though, this love doesn't extend past their laptops. I think the iPhones are too limiting, the iPad has the wrong aspect ratio, the Mac Pro is a garbage can that belongs in a garbage can, the Mac Mini is an overpriced, glorified media player as it doesn't have the grunt to do anything serious and the iMac doesn't give me the flexibility I need from a PC.
 

Cassady

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Huh? Windows allows you to pretty much anything you want to the system. What do you mean by your statement. (I don't take your second part credibly. That totally depends on the software. And by integration, what do you mean by that?)

You are saying a ton of things are better than the other, but give some examples please.

Lots of examples, but what would be the point? If you're comfortable on Windows, why worry about other systems?

But regardless - here's a simple one I put together a few weeks back. It strings a series of 3rd party apps together (but only because OSX makes it possible), to save me a few clicks on something I sometimes do 20/30/50 times a day...


>> An email comes in to Outlook/Mail - contains name/surname/unique identifier@email address.

>> I select that *entire* string, and click (as opposed to touch) my trackpad with two fingers (and only two fingers).

>> Firefox is triggered, and in the tab where I need to input that unique identifier, and the specific entry-field where it must be input, is selected, and *only* that parsed-text of the unique-identifier is pasted, and then enter is hit, to call up the relevant record.

>> Another keyboard shortcut invokes the SaveAsPDF option, and its saved in a specific "favourites" folder using DefaultFolderX.

>> Hazel 3.0 is watching that folder, and in the background - automatically renames that saved PDF using a filename that can be pulled in from the PDFs contents (i.e. Unique Identifier_Project Xx_ Date downloaded), and adds an OSX tag - and then moves it to a new subfolder inside ProjectXx's root folder (if that specific subfolder doesn't exist - Hazel will create it for me).

>> My information manager, is meanwhile watching that Project Folder for any new files tagged with that specific tag that Hazel gave it, and updates my indexed folder list.

I have zero programming knowledge, but in the background, BTT has interacted at a system level with the trackpad, OSX has allocated a keyboard shortcut in Mail/Outlook that isn't ordinarily available, KM has called the system clipboard and parsed the necessary data using a Regex code, and then sent that back to the system clipboard, before calling Firefox, locating that entry spot, invoking the paste command, and then hitting enter. DefaultFolderX and Hazel have all been given permission to access the system to do what they need to do.

All that done in the blink of an eye, with the help of 3rd party apps speaking to the system. And by using a trackpad click, and a single unique shortcut that only fires in Firefox, my filing is taken care of, and my Information Manager is updated, with me barely doing anything.

Granted, in this particular example, not all that much has been done at system level, but in other workflows, using Applescript or options to interact directly with the target apps at menu level, impressive things can be done.

Can all that be done on a Windows PC? No doubt!? Can it be done so easily - by someone like me who is a bit of a geek, but really just cobbles together the work of others? Maybe, but I think most neutral observers will agree that the entry-friction to building workflows like this that honestly can save hours(?) of wasted effort a month/year(?), is significantly easier on OSX than Windows.

I say again, you can be as productive IN an app on Windows or OSX (admittedly - MS Office on the PC, wins hands-down i.t.o. efficiency, the Mac equivalent still lags behind in several key areas) - but I remain convinced that the minute you look at getting something done/passed along from App A to B to Z, OSX comes into its own.

Hope this gives you some idea?
 
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