Google: Please Don’t Kill Video on the Web

[[)roi(]]

Earlier today, Microsoft filed a formal competition law complaint with the European Commission (EC) against Motorola Mobility and Google. We have taken this step because Motorola is attempting to block sales of Windows PCs, our Xbox game console and other products. Their offense? These products enable people to view videos on the Web and to connect wirelessly to the Internet using industry standards.

You probably take for granted that you can view videos on your smartphone, tablet, PC, or DVD/Blu-ray player and connect to the Internet without being tied to a cable. That works because the industry came together years ago to define common technical standards that every firm can use to build compatible products for video and Wi-Fi. Motorola and all the other firms that contributed to these standards also made a promise to one another: that if they had any patents essential to the standards, they would make their patents available on fair and reasonable terms, and would not use them to block competitors from shipping their products.

Motorola has broken its promise. Motorola is on a path to use standard essential patents to kill video on the Web, and Google as its new owner doesn’t seem to be willing to change course.

So much for their "Don't be Evil" mantra.

This can't bode well for standards going forward...

In legal proceedings on both sides of the Atlantic, Motorola is demanding that Microsoft take its products off the market, or else remove their standards-based ability to play video and connect wirelessly. The only basis for these actions is that these products implement industry standards, on which Motorola claims patents. Yet when the industry adopted these standards, we all were counting on Motorola and every contributor to live up to their promises. Watching video on the Web is one of the primary uses of computers these days. And we’ve all grown accustomed to “anytime, anywhere” access to the Internet, often made possible by the Wi-Fi standard. Imagine what a step back it would be if we could no longer watch videos on our computing devices or connect via Wi-Fi, or if only some products, but not others, had these capabilities. That would defeat the whole purpose of an industry standard.

Anything but fair and reasonable terms

Unfortunately, Motorola has refused to make its patents available at anything remotely close to a reasonable price. For a $1,000 laptop, Motorola is demanding that Microsoft pay a royalty of $22.50 for its 50 patents on the video standard, called H.264. As it turns out, there are at least 2,300 other patents needed to implement this standard. They are available from a group of 29 companies that came together to offer their H.264 patents to the industry on FRAND terms. Microsoft’s patent royalty to this group on that $1,000 laptop?

Two cents.

That’s right. Just 2 cents for use of more than 2,300 patents. (Windows qualifies for a nice volume discount, but no firm has to pay more than 20 cents per unit.) Motorola is demanding that Microsoft pay more than 1,000 times that for use of just 50 patents.

And that is for a mid-level, $1,000 laptop. For a $2,000 laptop, Motorola is demanding double the royalty - $45. Windows is the same on both laptops, and so is the video support in Windows. But the high-end laptop will have a bigger hard drive, more memory, perhaps a titanium case—and Motorola is demanding a hefty royalty on all of this, even though none of these features implements Motorola’s video patents.

Imagine if every firm acted like Motorola. Windows implements more than 60 standards, and a PC supports about 200. If every firm priced its standard essential patents like Motorola, the cost of the patents would be greater than all the other costs combined in making PCs, tablets, smartphones and other devices. Obviously, this would greatly increase the prices of these devices for consumers.

http://blogs.technet.com/b/microsoft_on_the_issues/archive/2012/02/22/google-please-don-t-kill-video-on-the-web.aspx

Both Microsoft and Apple have filed complaints with the European Commission, hopefully sanity prevails wrt FRAND patents.

 

[hyarion]

What comes around, goes around.

Article badly one-sided there. How about mentioning the fact that Microsoft is jumping on the bandwagon with Apple to bully Google with as many patents as possible to prevent android sales? Now google/motorolla fight back and Microsoft claims to be the victim... yeah....

I think Google's long-term plan is to force Microsoft and Apple to realise that their patent wars are not going to stop Android and Google is not going to just sit back and let them bully all the manufacturers who choose android. This will hopefully allow them to come to an agreement along the lines of "stop suing android phone makers, app makers, etc. and we won't sue you with our now massive collection of patents that can hurt your own pockets".

 

[[)roi(]]

The key difference is fighting with FRAND patents i.e. industry standards... surely you can understand the distinction. I hope for the sanctity of the FRAND / RAND that the EC and US Justice systems stop this type of abuse.

This is like opening the fabled Pandora's box -- if this action is not curbed then this can only result is a huge mess for the entire industry.

There needs to be a clear distinction between the terms for FRAND and non FRAND patents.

 

[lucifir]

What comes around, goes around.

Article badly one-sided there. How about mentioning the fact that Microsoft is jumping on the bandwagon with Apple to bully Google with as many patents as possible to prevent android sales? Now google/motorolla fight back and Microsoft claims to be the victim... yeah....

I think Google's long-term plan is to force Microsoft and Apple to realise that their patent wars are not going to stop Android and Google is not going to just sit back and let them bully all the manufacturers who choose android. This will hopefully allow them to come to an agreement along the lines of "stop suing android phone makers, app makers, etc. and we won't sue you with our now massive collection of patents that can hurt your own pockets".

+1

 

[Bern]

What comes around, goes around.

Article badly one-sided there. How about mentioning the fact that Microsoft is jumping on the bandwagon with Apple to bully Google with as many patents as possible to prevent android sales? Now google/motorolla fight back and Microsoft claims to be the victim... yeah....

I think Google's long-term plan is to force Microsoft and Apple to realise that their patent wars are not going to stop Android and Google is not going to just sit back and let them bully all the manufacturers who choose android. This will hopefully allow them to come to an agreement along the lines of "stop suing android phone makers, app makers, etc. and we won't sue you with our now massive collection of patents that can hurt your own pockets".

Good point - what was the figure again on MS license fees Google has to pay for every Android device again? I am OK if they are using it as leverage to stop paying license fees on another essentially open industry standard by making a point - but it is a pretty slippery slope.

Maybe Google is trying to lose so they can use the precedent in a case against MS later?

 

[FlatspinZA]

What comes around, goes around.

Article badly one-sided there. How about mentioning the fact that Microsoft is jumping on the bandwagon with Apple to bully Google with as many patents as possible to prevent android sales? Now google/motorolla fight back and Microsoft claims to be the victim... yeah....

I think Google's long-term plan is to force Microsoft and Apple to realise that their patent wars are not going to stop Android and Google is not going to just sit back and let them bully all the manufacturers who choose android. This will hopefully allow them to come to an agreement along the lines of "stop suing android phone makers, app makers, etc. and we won't sue you with our now massive collection of patents that can hurt your own pockets".

+2 It's about time someone stood up to the behemoth/s!

 

[JStrike]

So much for their "Don't be Evil" mantra.

This can't bode well for standards going forward...



Anything but fair and reasonable terms


http://blogs.technet.com/b/microsoft_on_the_issues/archive/2012/02/22/google-please-don-t-kill-video-on-the-web.aspx

Both Microsoft and Apple have filed complaints with the European Commission, hopefully sanity prevails wrt FRAND patents.

Cisco has also sent a letter to the commission in support

 

[Ockie]

hehehe

/rubs hands together at the thought of MotoGoo sticking it to the bullies

one two....MotoGoo is coming for you!
three four better lock your door
five six...get your crucifix

:twisted:

 

[JStrike]

Good point - what was the figure again on MS license fees Google has to pay for every Android device again? I am OK if they are using it as leverage to stop paying license fees on another essentially open industry standard by making a point - but it is a pretty slippery slope.

Maybe Google is trying to lose so they can use the precedent in a case against MS later?

MS's patents that the Android manufacturers have licenced are not FRAND patents, and can be engineered around.

Please understand the difference between FRAND patents and regular patents.

If companies try abuse FRAND patents, this will have *massive* negative repercussions. It will be detrimental to everyone!

 

[JStrike]

hehehe

/rubs hands together at the thought of MotoGoo sticking it to the bullies

one two....MotoGoo is coming for you!
three four better lock your door
five six...get your crucifix

:twisted:

You are *for* companies abusing FRAND???

 

[JStrike]

Good point - what was the figure again on MS license fees Google has to pay for every Android device again? I am OK if they are using it as leverage to stop paying license fees on another essentially open industry standard by making a point - but it is a pretty slippery slope.

Maybe Google is trying to lose so they can use the precedent in a case against MS later?

The two are not related in any way. This is about abusing FRAND. If Motorolla are allowed to do this to MS, then MS, which has a lot more patents in the h264 FRAND patent pool, will be able to pretty much destroy every pc/phone/tv manufacturer
It's in no ones best interest

 

[Ockie]

You are *for* companies abusing FRAND???

I am for someone putting Apple and MS in their place. Especially Apple. This company have gotten out of hand and needs to be put back in its place. I aint no friend of MS either.

 

[Avenue]

What comes around, goes around.

Article badly one-sided there. How about mentioning the fact that Microsoft is jumping on the bandwagon with Apple to bully Google with as many patents as possible to prevent android sales? Now google/motorolla fight back and Microsoft claims to be the victim... yeah....

I think Google's long-term plan is to force Microsoft and Apple to realise that their patent wars are not going to stop Android and Google is not going to just sit back and let them bully all the manufacturers who choose android. This will hopefully allow them to come to an agreement along the lines of "stop suing android phone makers, app makers, etc. and we won't sue you with our now massive collection of patents that can hurt your own pockets".

couldnt have said it better myself

 

[[)roi(]]

+2 It's about time someone stood up to the behemoth/s!

Google is no small fry in this scenario by any measure; Yet somehow I don't believe this is going to end well for them, considering that France have already frowned of this type of abuse of FRAND patents (Samsung ruling).

The last thing Google need is for additional EC spotlighting re uncompetitive practices, especially considering the open antitrust issues hanging over them; and let's not forget the Oracle / Sun case.

Generally when these complaints are levied by more than 1 player, it's clearly reflects where the abuse is. Cisco has also now entered this fray and up till now they have not been party to the Microsoft / Apple / Google tussle.

Btw the acquisition of the Nortel patents have also been cleared for sale; there is a lot of potential pain for Google / Motorola in that bunch; it not managed well it could push Apple / Microsoft and others to partner. Either way I don't see a positive outcome for Google; their patent pool is not strong enough.

 

[JStrike]

I am for someone putting Apple and MS in their place. Especially Apple. This company have gotten out of hand and needs to be put back in its place. I aint no friend of MS either.

I understand you viewpoint.
But in this specific matter, it will have horrible consequences on everyone!!! FRAND is very, very important. If this breaks down, Nokia could abuse it's massive amount of patents in the GSM/3G FRAND patent pool, bankrupting every other manufacturer, and will pretty much be left as the only GSM/3G manufacturer in world.

Blindly hating Apple (or MS) when the consequences are so huge is cutting off your nose to spite your face

 

[Ockie]

Blindly hating Apple (or MS) when the consequences are so huge is cutting off your nose to spite your face

Perhaps. All I know is that I have had it with these bullies. Suing cause another companies tablet looks squarish and omg...it has ICONS!!. HOW DARE THEY....WE MUST SUE!!!!!

Honestly....it makes me wanna vomit!

 

[[)roi(]]

... If this breaks down, Nokia could abuse it's massive amount of patents in the GSM/3G FRAND patent pool, ...

Thanks for pointing out Nokia; their strong partnership with MS would place them on the opposite side of the Google fence... This could end very badly for Google / Motorola -- Somehow I doubt the EC and US will allow this much mileage.

 

[Ockie]

Thanks for pointing out Nokia; their strong partnership with MS would place them on the opposite side of the Google fence... This could end very badly for Google / Motorola -- Somehow I doubt the EC and US will allow this much mileage.

Does this entire saga not make anyone else think of the Cold War....except instead of stock piling nukes....they are now stock piling patents ready to fire?

hehe. I heard Motorola has got nice big patents also in the GSM/3G tech..somehthing to do with how the phone works with the networks or something. Cant remember now. Nokia aint the only one with patents there.

 

[[)roi(]]

Perhaps. All I know is that I have had it with these bullies. Suing cause another companies tablet looks squarish and omg...it has ICONS!!. HOW DARE THEY....WE MUST SUE!!!!!

Honestly....it makes me wanna vomit!

Honestly up till now this (the patent cases) have had no impact on anyone in SA, or for that matter most of the countries. The few instances have only served to temporarily delay a product to market e.g. Samsung Tab in Australia, Holland, Germany.

Hence I believe a lot of the hate / debate is completely unfounded i.e. no measurable impact for consumers only lawyers getting rich.

 

[[)roi(]]

Does this entire saga not make anyone else think of the Cold War....except instead of stock piling nukes....they are now stock piling patents ready to fire?

hehe. I heard Motorola has got nice big patents also in the GSM/3G tech..somehthing to do with how the phone works with the networks or something. Cant remember now. Nokia aint the only one with patents there.

The problem with that scenario is:

Microsoft + Apple + Cisco + Nokia + Nortel patents (is not equal to) Google + Motorola
Very one sided; end result is almost predetermined.

Btw Qualcomm have also demonstrated their allegiance with Apple in the Motorola / FRAND case, and let's not forget BB who have also through the Nortel patents sided with MS & apple. Not looking good for Google, sorry