Google versus Microsoft

To be fair though, users usually don't want competition when it comes to browsers. Most users are pretty happy to just have something on their machines when they start it up.

While it's true that IE is a festering cesspool and users are being made to use substandard software, I think that ensuring that it doesn't ship with Windows will just end up confusing people.

Unless there's some way to get a first time user to get Firefox or another browser (using what if IE isn't bundled?) I don't see that this will help all that much. I almost always use IE as a stepping-stone to new browsers and it's useful if only as a gateway to Firefox etc. Most of my machines have only ever had one page in IE and that's a google query that says "Get Firefox"
 
AntiThesis said:
To be fair though, users usually don't want competition when it comes to browsers. Most users are pretty happy to just have something on their machines when they start it up.

While it's true that IE is a festering cesspool and users are being made to use substandard software, I think that ensuring that it doesn't ship with Windows will just end up confusing people.

Unless there's some way to get a first time user to get Firefox or another browser (using what if IE isn't bundled?) I don't see that this will help all that much. I almost always use IE as a stepping-stone to new browsers and it's useful if only as a gateway to Firefox etc. Most of my machines have only ever had one page in IE and that's a google query that says "Get Firefox"
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Windows should be shipped with a browser (Can you imagine the mess of trying to download a browser when you don't have one?)

Windows should come with many browsers pre-installed and users should be given an option as to which browser to choose as their default browser when they first attempt to connect to the internet.

Failing that at least make IE uninstallable, right now it is impossible to completely remove the bloody thing.

I realise that a lot of users out there don't know what an internet browser is, but they should still have the choice, no matter how uninformed that choice may be.

Most of us have experienced the horror of using IE, even the elderly can tell how horrible it is when given the chance. My grandfather for example still refers to the Firefox icon on his desktop as "the internet", but as he once told me: "gosh darnit this is a better internet than that one with the blue 'e'!".
 
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I most certainly do want competing browsers... There are things I want to do (and only do) in Chrome, while there are things I reserve for Firefox and there are (mainly intranet) things I use IE for.

I believe if more people were more aware (and had more experience) with competing browsers, that these competing browsers would find more adoption in the market.
 
For sure Apo: But you're probably not an average intertubes user :D

I totally agree that there should be competing browsers, I just don't know how effective it'll be. As far as installing all the browsers goes, that just means I'll get a nice bloaty first install. Imagine having:

IE, Firefox, Opera, Safari, Chrome, Flock etc installed. Crazy.

Perhaps during first run a user could be prompted to choose a browser (without IE being given a clear advantage) so that they can actually make a proper choice. Then that browser is installed and the others are just left as part of the installation set.
 
Agreed. But there are ways of enabling the download of browsers without actually having one pre-installed and still giving users choice of which one to install. Eg have a desktop panel with the options detailed (with tech specs for advanced or curious users) and a download manager with all the options preloaded, ready to download whichever selections are double-clicked.

porchrat said:
Failing that at least make IE uninstallable, right now it is impossible to completely remove the bloody thing.
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+10 :D
(because it's inbred with the OS itself...)
 
AntiThesis said:
IE, Firefox, Opera, Safari, Chrome, Flock etc installed. Crazy.
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(no initial all-install, opted-install, see other post)

More frightening than the install is developing for all, hence my gripe that IE is not a standards based browser like the others are. IE8 is looking more friendly though. But viewing older sites I am constantly having to hit the "compatibility" toggle. But I am encouraged that MS (now that the Bill is gone) is opening up and playing more ... umm "nicely" with the rest of the planet - incrementally that is.
 
or windows can bundle a none windows certified bonus software to be installed by users preference?

Microsoft really does not care about money any more. They care about showing off how much they get and in the same sense their own pride in their* browser. Their company their baby they want to feel the pride and fame to have every one using some thing they made cause that's all that money can't buy these days.
 
bigger corporate companies doesnt even give the user a choice as installing another browser is against company policy
 
Magnarmalok said:
or windows can bundle a none windows certified bonus software to be installed by users preference?

Microsoft really does not care about money any more. They care about showing off how much they get and in the same sense their own pride in their* browser. Their company their baby they want to feel the pride and fame to have every one using some thing they made cause that's all that money can't buy these days.
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Bollocks. Pride doesnt come into it. It's a company that's aim is to make a profit. Klaar.

And do you really think that for a lower-end user (someone who is installing windows for the first time) it would be a difficult decision?

1. Firefox
2. Chrome
3. Opera
4. Internet Explorer

Hmmmm.... let me think about that.... hmmmmm (I'm wagering 90% of those people would choose something with the word "internet" in it...)

Not to mention most pcs come pre-installed with windows. Now with Microsofts retail clout - which browser do you think will get preferance for installation?
 
Sounds like sour grapes!
A company has the foresight, aptitude & courage to develop something. Along comes competition who simply want the original developer to roll over and hand over their developments. If the competitors are so sure of themselves, why don't they invest and develop something even better and compete on product?
 
IE is fine. 7 that is. and i am sure 8 will be on the level with the others. Microsoft have worked hard to sort out the sh1te they have been dealing us. Sure it's for their benefit, but for the competition it the same thing.
 
What I would like to know is why is there all this rigmarole over the browsers. Browsers are free applications and provide no financial return to the respective developers. What difference does it make to those involved in the browser wars which one the world is using? From a marketing perspective I can understand the propagation of a brand as this is a mandatory app as far access to the internet is concerned, but what else (third party development)?

No to sound paranoid but it makes me wonder if there is something more to browsers than meets the eye?
 
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psivius said:
What I would like to know is why is there all this rigmarole over the browsers. Browsers are free applications and provide no financial return to the respective developers. What difference does it make to those involved in the browser wars which one the world is using? From a marketing perspective I can understand the propagation of a brand as this a mandatory app as far access to the internet is concerned, but what else?

Makes me wonder if there is something more to browsers than meets the eye?
Click to expand...

The Mozilla Foundation got something like $65m from Google last year, just because the users of Firefox used the little Google search next to the address bar. Do you need any more motivation to spread your browser?
 
So you think Microsoft should be compelled by government to ship competitive browsers with Windows? And you want a vibrant software industry? And you think liberty is important?

You might as well argue the moon's made of green cheese - it's more rational.

Microsoft's crown jewels are the Windows API set, which provide the application compatibility that makes the Windows cosmos so large and influential. As computing becomes more web-centric, the strategic threat to Microsoft is that web-based applications diminish WinAPI's influence, and that ultimately translates to the bottom line.
 
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