Green powered hosting

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paulka007

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Hi guys,

Don't burn me down in flames, this isn't an advert, its research so I hope that is allowed. ;)

I'm trying to do some research about the feelings towards businesses interested in using '100% powered by green' energy efficient servers. I have written a short survey, 5 questions in total, and would like anyone who has a corporate/business website to partake. NO personal information is collected.

The survey is here: http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.aspx?sm=SNAn5IKEGWOhXbaOjdqPUg_3d_3d

I will release some of the more interesting findings as soon as i have enough responce :)


FAQ
What are the hosting specs?
The plan is to host internationally on a fail safe sever 'cloud'. Meaning 99.9% uptime.

Why would I want to change?
The reason is it provides a corporate advantage in the minds of consumers they ABC cc supports a greener and cleaner future.

What is competitively priced?
Hopefully this means similarly priced to leading business hosting providers currently. Of course getting servers that are 35% more power efficient isn't cheaper but, by getting corporate initiative involved this initiative could work.
 
Can we win anything if we complete the questionair? :D

BTW, how will you get the servers more "green", except spray painting them?
 
Which datacentre will be used? Having more energy efficient equipment is a step in the right direction - but its not enough when the facility is powered by coal and not a non - renewable resource.
 
Thanks for the thought, yes we were planning to use an international DC that is already using 100% solar and wind power :) (They are certified.)

@spiderz We were thinking of using green cases and astro-turfing the floor :p
 
Normally the datacenter doesn't actually use "green" energy, they just buy a certificate for Renewable Energy Certificates from some company, which is basically investing in some company that produces electricity from wind, solar etc. I don't really see the point of "green hosting" because basically any business that uses energy can buy a REC and claim they are "green".
 
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Honestly... when it comes to corporate stuff.... I don't care HOW my stuff is powered....

If you can guarantee the uptime, and have a proven track record of doing so... I'd host with you.
 
3x-a-d3-u5 said:
Hi guys,

Don't burn me down in flames, this isn't an advert, its research so I hope that is allowed. ;)

I'm trying to do some research about the feelings towards businesses interested in using '100% powered by green' energy efficient servers. I have written a short survey, 5 questions in total, and would like anyone who has a corporate/business website to partake. NO personal information is collected.

The survey is here: http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.aspx?sm=SNAn5IKEGWOhXbaOjdqPUg_3d_3d

I will release some of the more interesting findings as soon as i have enough responce :)


FAQ
What are the hosting specs?
The plan is to host internationally on a fail safe sever 'cloud'. Meaning 99.9% uptime.

Why would I want to change?
The reason is it provides a corporate advantage in the minds of consumers they ABC cc supports a greener and cleaner future.

What is competitively priced?
Hopefully this means similarly priced to leading business hosting providers currently. Of course getting servers that are 35% more power efficient isn't cheaper but, by getting corporate initiative involved this initiative could work.
Click to expand...

3 9s?? Is that a typo or should it be 5?
 
Yeah.... 3 9's from an enterprise class hosting facility looking to attract people who are looking for stability is not good enough... 5 9's at the VERY least.
 
ToxicBunny said:
Yeah.... 3 9's from an enterprise class hosting facility looking to attract people who are looking for stability is not good enough... 5 9's at the VERY least.
Click to expand...

99.999% is already just over 5 minutes of downtime in an entire -year-. Google struggles to achieve that or higher.
 
RavenServers said:
99.999% is already just over 5 minutes of downtime in an entire -year-. Google struggles to achieve that or higher.
Click to expand...

True, the reason I asked was that the OP said "Fail Safe server cloud... 99.9% uptime". If Fail Safe = Fault Tolerant, then it should be 99.999.... Most people would assume 99.9% to be Highly Available.....
 
Conradl said:
True, the reason I asked was that the OP said "Fail Safe server cloud... 99.9% uptime". If Fail Safe = Fault Tolerant, then it should be 99.999.... Most people would assume 99.9% to be Highly Available.....
Click to expand...

Even with fail over, 99.999% would be hard to achieve without some *serious* capital (unless it is a deadbeat site). A realistic figure for your run - of - the - mill failover is 99.99%.

Most quality hosts can easily achieve 99.99% each month on average, but they do not advertise it like that. The current trend for small - medium international hosts is 99.9% because they know that the consumer is educated and does not fall for 99.99999%, as what was suggested previously.

I think this is off topic from the OP's topic, though :)
 
Also, of course the problem with uptime stats is that they can be skewed by any number of factors..

I have had access to a hosting site that managed 99.999% uptime for a very very long time (excluding scheduled maint of course), but the figure was 98.9% thanks to external factors like communications links, and power issues that were beyond their control.
 
ToxicBunny said:
and power issues that were beyond their control.
Click to expand...

I must admit, power issues is a bit of a weak excuse. Even during SA's power problems, South african servers were up and running using UPS/generator power.

Here is some interesting calculations (Based on 31 day month):
Percentage uptime: 99.9% Downtime: 44 minutes 38 seconds
Percentage uptime: 99.99% Downtime: 4 minutes 27 seconds
Percentage uptime: 99.999% Downtime: 26 seconds
I think if you're predicting actual yearly uptime of 99.9% the service pretty reliable!

This is all based on what uptime you want to be. For example, The SA internet exchange is experiencing some problems and internet is slow and pings are so slow that your site is timing out. Your site is technically running perfectly, however You may experience problems. This or similar cases is SOO often the case with clients.
"So the screen is black. And you think its a virus."
"Yes!!!"
"Are you sure the power cables are plugged in correctly. no loose plugs?"
"I can't see its quite dark in the corner."
"And you can't switch the lights on?"
"No I can't we're having a power failure" :eek:
Adapted from a call centre conversation email that went around a while back
Click to expand...

@Conradl Thanks for the response. I agree it would be great to have 99.99% or even 99.999% yearly uptime, but what would you expect to pay for this? And consider its 'green power' based, running in a cloud, so there are several servers that need to be maintained. On that note would you see it as more beneficial if costs were kept lower, but the space and options were reduced? Since most business never even use most of them anyway.

@JasonH Yes I've done my homework and what you're talking about is how it happens. to explain:Image description/diagram_RECs.gif
The idea behind it is more for a competitive advantage and marketing exploitable strength, not as much being tree-huger.:p

So, what is a REC?

How RECs Work
  • Since it’s virtually impossible to request only the “green” electrons be delivered to your home or business by your electricity provider, RECs provide a low-cost mechanism for individuals and businesses to capture the environmental benefits (zero emissions, etc) of the green power and claim it as their own.
  • Each MWh of clean, renewable electricity reduces the need for one additional MWh of pollution-causing conventional power; therefore a REC represents the environmental benefits of this displacement.
  • Green-e Energy Certified RECs are audited to ensure that only one customer claims credit for each MWh of renewable electricity
Click to expand...
Just as JasonH said:
The sale of RECs generates additional funds that improve renewable energy project economics, making them more competitive with other fossil fuel sources, like coal and natural gas.
Click to expand...

If you haven't already please don't hesitate to take the survey mentioned.
 
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I said power issues, I didn't say power issues AT the hosting centre....

and their servers were up for 99.999% of the year (excluding scheduled maintenance) but OTHER issues, outside of the hosting centre, that were beyond the hosting centres control brought that figure down to 98.9%

I was probably over simplifying the issue, what i was TRYING to get at with my post, is that uptime stats are a bit of a black art... what uptime are you actually reporting on, and do ALL the customers see EXACTLY the same figure, because they have to use a multitude of other systems to get to the one thats hosted in your site.
 
3x-a-d3-u5 said:
I must admit, power issues is a bit of a weak excuse. Even during SA's power problems, South african servers were up and running using UPS/generator power.

Here is some interesting calculations (Based on 31 day month):
Percentage uptime: 99.9% Downtime: 44 minutes 38 seconds
Percentage uptime: 99.99% Downtime: 4 minutes 27 seconds
Percentage uptime: 99.999% Downtime: 26 seconds
I think if you're predicting actual yearly uptime of 99.9% the service pretty reliable!

This is all based on what uptime you want to be. For example, The SA internet exchange is experiencing some problems and internet is slow and pings are so slow that your site is timing out. Your site is technically running perfectly, however You may experience problems. This or similar cases is SOO often the case with clients.


@Conradl Thanks for the response. I agree it would be great to have 99.99% or even 99.999% yearly uptime, but what would you expect to pay for this? And consider its 'green power' based, running in a cloud, so there are several servers that need to be maintained. On that note would you see it as more beneficial if costs were kept lower, but the space and options were reduced? Since most business never even use most of them anyway.

@JasonH Yes I've done my homework and what you're talking about is how it happens. to explain:Image description/diagram_RECs.gif
The idea behind it is more for a competitive advantage and marketing exploitable strength, not as much being tree-huger.:p

Just as JasonH said:

If you haven't already please don't hesitate to take the survey mentioned.
Click to expand...

My point was not necessarily the number of 9s, as has been mentioned the actual calculation of up time is more art than science....

My question was around Fail Safe = 99.9? Perhaps the Fail Safe should be changed to Highly Available - its pedantic, but the first thing I picked up :)

How will this work, are you to host you your own equipment in a leased datacentre? As far as making a Fault Tolerant system and the price implications thereof; most of the equipment that you would require have inherent cost saving and HA features.

I'm assuming resources would be thin-provisioned, functionality that would also be inherent in the basic equipment? So no need to reduce functionality and capacity too much to reduce costs....

As to what I would pay? No idea really! Basically, I would not like to have to pay more for features that I know already exist in the technology - sold as benefits.... (if that makes sense!!).
 
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