Gun Ownership

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Geriatrix

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I haven't seen much discussion on the issue here and was wondering what you peeps think.

On the one hand you have Gunfree SA and on the other hand you have Firearm Associations and Hunting Associations. Both have a myriad of opinions and 'facts' to prove their positions.

My own opinion is that private citizens should be allowed to own firearms for self defense, sports and hunting. A person can kill another person with just about any house hold object but you can't effectively defend yourself against a criminal wielding an illegal firearm without a gun yourself.

What are your thoughts?
 
Geriatrix said:
I haven't seen much discussion on the issue here and was wondering what you peeps think.

On the one hand you have Gunfree SA and on the other hand you have Firearm Associations and Hunting Associations. Both have a myriad of opinions and 'facts' to prove their positions.

My own opinion is that private citizens should be allowed to own firearms for self defense, sports and hunting. A person can kill another person with just about any house hold object but you can't effectively defend yourself against a criminal wielding an illegal firearm without a gun yourself.

What are your thoughts?
Click to expand...

I've been a bit of a fence sitter about this in the past but now I'm of the opinion that gun ownership should be mandatory not just a right. Most criminals would think more than just twice if they faced being riddled with bullets for so much as threatening another person.
 
You hit the nail right on the head Geriatrix.

Just looking at recent news articles on farm attacks, etc. it is clear that a person by no means need to have a firearm to commit heinous crimes. A firearm in a self defence scenario is, and should be, the last resort. That being said, I believe it is an option each and every citizen should have.

EDIT: +1 Nick
 
hi,

Firearms are used for self defense every day, mostly without the need to even take a shot. Millions of people carry around legal firearms every day without incident. Firearm accidents are in fact very rare, you are statistically more likely to hurt yourself many other ways, including pools etc.

In the US, the states that have the most liberal firearm laws also almost consistently have lower crime rates. The difference is that law abiding citizens can carry weapons and the bad guys know this. The bad guys prefer unarmed victims, simple. You can read the facts on http://www.gunfacts.info. I am not making unsubstantiated claims.

Mass murders such as school shootings etc are almost always in "Gun Free zones".. there is an obvious reason for that.

The fact is that the bad guys will always have weapons. They are criminals, and by definition gun control laws do not affect them. Illegal firearms are in the most part sourced from illegal sources and not from legal firearm owners. Without an effective method of self defense we can not exercise our right to self defense.

If we disarm this country the bad dudes will have no fear to do whatever they want to steal, rape and kill us. You don't have to own a gun, but the very fact that others do gives you some minor level of protection because at least the bad guy will fear that you may have a weapon.

Legal firearm owners are not the source of the problem with illegal guns, this has even been admitted in parliament. We need to stop illegal firearms being 'stolen' from the police and military. Gun Free SA never comments on the thousands of illegal guns sourced from the police or military, why is that? They don't really care about safety in this country, they are a political tool used by the government and other organizations.

Remember this - in South Africa the Police have stated publicly that they are NOT responsible for personal safety of an individual. Who is responsible for your life? You are!
 
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100% twister (LOL @ your name btw, excellent!)

On another forum we had a discussion on how ineffective a firearm (or any weapon/tool) can be in the hands of an untrained and unconfident person. Responsible gunownership is as much being able to effectively and efficiently use a firearm (heaven forbid in the event you need to) as it is complying with the relevant laws.
 
See, my issue with owning a firearm is that you are automatically at fault for using it, and it is up to you to prove that its use was legitimate. Too much red tape and bureaucratic BS which I really don't have the time for, so I'll rather take my chances and go without one.
 
srothman said:
You hit the nail right on the head Geriatrix.

Just looking at recent news articles on farm attacks, etc. it is clear that a person by no means need to have a firearm to commit heinous crimes. A firearm in a self defence scenario is, and should be, the last resort. That being said, I believe it is an option each and every citizen should have.

EDIT: +1 Nick
Click to expand...

I used to be a fence sitter too, still am in a way, but looking at crime stats of countries where guns are allowed(or mandatory) like Switzerland you have to pause and take note.

Belial said:
If we disarm this country the bad dudes will have no fear to do whatever they want to steal, rape and kill us. You don't have to own a gun, but the very fact that others do gives you some minor level of protection because at least the bad guy will fear that you may have a weapon.

Legal firearm owners are not the source of the problem with illegal guns, this has even been admitted in parliament. We need to stop illegal firearms being 'stolen' from the police and military. Gun Free SA never comments on the thousands of illegal guns sourced from the police or military, why is that? They don't really care about safety in this country, they are a political tool used by the government and other organizations.

Remember this - in South Africa the Police have stated publicly that they are NOT responsible for personal safety of an individual. Who is responsible for your life? You are!
Click to expand...
My mom has a friend that used his firearms to protect his family two times already. It's scary to think what would have happened to his wife and daughters had he not had a gun to shoot the robbers with. TWO TIMES!

(@) (@) twister said:
+1
Get youself an firearm - just make sure you get the correct training to use it.
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Waaay ahead of you. ;) Don't have a gun but I'm fully trained. After my hijacking last year and not being able to tell the investigating officer anything about the firearm used on us(basic things like was it cocked, what make, calibre) I decided this is stuff men need to know. Ignorance is not bliss, its dangerous.
 
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Mike Hoxbig said:
See, my issue with owning a firearm is that you are automatically at fault for using it, and it is up to you to prove that its use was legitimate. Too much red tape and bureaucratic BS which I really don't have the time for, so I'll rather take my chances and go without one.
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Nope, not true. If you have used it to protect a life against an armed intruder and could find no way to escape, the law will almost always be on your side. Don't use it to protect property though, they'll nail you for that.
 
Mike,

I guess the safety of my family is worth the risk. I'd rather answer to a jury after the fact than see anyone in my family become a victim to a violent attack. Shooting is a last resort of course.
 
Geriatrix said:
Nope, not true. If you have used it to protect a life against an armed intruder and could find no way to escape the law will almost always be on your side. Don't use it to protect property though, they'll nail you for that.
Click to expand...

Yeah but who really thinks straight in those circumstances? It's usually shoot first, ask questions later.
 
That, unfortunately, is the hogwash that Gunfree South Africa is trying to feed us. If you are going to go around shooting people who look at you funny, then you know what, you deserve to be locked up in a deep dark hole and forgotten.

Each and every person has the right to life, and at the end of the day, if you can prove that your life or that of someone in whch you have a legal interest (doesn't even have to be family or relatives) was threatened and that you did everything else in your power in that situation to try and avoid having to use your firearm, i.e. I had a security gate, they broke it down; I pressed the panic button, but the security company took too long; I have two big dogs, but they were poisoned; I used pepper spray but the badguys had masks on, etc.), I doubt you will any trouble.

EDIT:

@Belial : +1
@Mike : That is where training comes in. Repitition, repitition, repitition. Also, if you have a security gate or something in between you and Mr. Badguy, it will give you a chance to gather yourself and make a more rational decision. I assure you, if Mr. Badguy is trying to break down your security gate, he isn't there to just steal your flatscreen TV and toaster oven...he means you harm.
 
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Mike Hoxbig said:
See, my issue with owning a firearm is that you are automatically at fault for using it, and it is up to you to prove that its use was legitimate. Too much red tape and bureaucratic BS which I really don't have the time for, so I'll rather take my chances and go without one.
Click to expand...

The cops are legally required to charge you if you shoot someone but I've never heard of someone having to defend themselves in a self defense case. The fact is the cops seem to be pretty pro gun owners at the moment if recent cases are anything to go by.
 
srothman said:
That, unfortunately, is the hogwash that Gunfree South Africa is trying to feed us. If you are going to go around shooting people who look at you funny, then you know what, you deserve to be locked up in a deep dark hole and forgotten.

Each and every person has the right to life, and at the end of the day, if you can prove that your life or that of someone in whch you have a legal interest (doesn't even have to be family or relatives) was threatened and that you did everything else in your power in that situation to try and avoid having to use your firearm, i.e. I had a security gate, they broke it down; I pressed the panic button, but the security company took too long; I have two big dogs, but they were poisoned; I used pepper spray but the badguys had masks on, etc.), I doubt you will any trouble.
Click to expand...

The others I get, but trust me, if the c*nts tried to do anything to my dogs, they will be wishing that they were shot.
 
Nick333 said:
The cops are legally required to charge you if you shoot someone but I've never heard of someone having to defend themselves in a self defense case. The fact is the cops seem to be pretty pro gun owners at the moment if recent cases are anything to go by.
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That's good to hear, at least :)
 
LOL! I hear you Mike, was trying to illustrate the point that if all else fails, and you use your firearm as a last resort, you would be justified in doing so.

@Nick : 100% The boys in blue will arrest you regardless, because it's not up to them to decide if it was self defence or not. I have heard of a lot of cases where no arrests were made, because it was simply THAT obvious.
 
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Mike Hoxbig said:
Yeah but who really thinks straight in those circumstances? It's usually shoot first, ask questions later.
Click to expand...
Well part of the firearm training is understanding of the laws and legal procedures related to the use of firearms for self defense. We where told that although you should not go all cowboy and shoot like a mad man the courts do in fact consider that you where under heavy stress and would not have had time or mental clarity. As long as you acted in defense and did not chase them and go look for a fight you should be fine.

My moms friend has gone through it twice and was found to have acted in self defense both times.
 
Mike Hoxbig said:
The others I get, but trust me, if the c*nts tried to do anything to my dogs, they will be wishing that they were shot.
Click to expand...

Agree with you there... To me a bullet in the head would be completely justifiable if you broke into my place and kicked my dog...
 
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