Gun Ownership

Remember reading this, almost word for word in another gun thread. :)

That’s quite likely. Post research and construction has already being done. There is no sense in messing with a laboriously structured document (where all ducks are in a row). It is lightly edited and reposted where it appears relevant (the body remains much the same).
 
Gun guys, quick question for you. What do you do with your guns when you go on holiday?
Do you just leave them at home in the safe? And if you take them with, where do you keep them when you go to the beach or pub?
 
Gun guys, quick question for you. What do you do with your guns when you go on holiday?
Do you just leave them at home in the safe? And if you take them with, where do you keep them when you go to the beach or pub?
I NEVER go anywhere in SA without my firearm. If I leave the country I give them to my local gun store for safekeeping, perfectly legal and safe.
I also do not consume alcohol so.....
 
I NEVER go anywhere in SA without my firearm. If I leave the country I give them to my local gun store for safekeeping, perfectly legal and safe.
I also do not consume alcohol so.....
So if you go to the beach, do you pickle the firearm along? Surely that's a huge shlep(and bad for the firearm).
 
That's why you should take a Glock to the beach ;-)

But seriously, I would usually have my firearm in a rucksack when I have my swimming trunks on. If I KNOW I will be getting into the water, I will leave it in the hotel room, provided they have a personal safe. Also, if I do that, I will disassemble my firearm and take the barrel with me.

Other than that I take my firearm wherever I go.
 
Just a quick question , have any of you or know of anyone that ever used a paint ball marker with solid balls/rubber balls for home defense ?? Just interested to know how effective a deterrent it is. As its not illegal to own one and you need no licence either.
 
Marine1 - what would be the best .45 hand gun to get for SD?
 
.45 ? I always say the glock or HK is the best, have used both but prefer HK due to external hammer and better safety. Glock safety is only on the trigger once you have "one up" which IMO isnt safe at all.
Sig is also a good make as are many others but I just prefer the HK, shoots anything you put in it.
 
.45 ? I always say the glock or HK is the best, have used both but prefer HK due to external hammer and better safety. Glock safety is only on the trigger once you have "one up" which IMO isnt safe at all.
Sig is also a good make as are many others but I just prefer the HK, shoots anything you put in it.

I love the glock but im also not too fond of the 'no' safety but which is the best firearm between the 2?
 
@marine1: If you follow common sense and adhere to the golden rules of gun safety, there is no reason why a +1 on a Glock should be unsafe. The issue I have with external safeties is that, under stress, we lose all fine motor skills. Your heart is racing at 200km/h, and the last thing you want to have to worry about is your gun NOT going bang when it is suppose to.

@The_Mowgs : .45's are great, but you have to ask yourself what you intend using your firearm for. In general, a .45 is going to be much more difficult to shoot than, say, a 9mmP. Now, if this intended firearm is going to be used for selfd defence, you need to have a firearm that you can accurately place a shot, every time. Big bullets help nothing if you miss your target. That, with the additional disadvantage of magazine capacity (Your average 1911 holds 8 rounds, including the +1, and the Smith & Wesson M&P45 holds 10+1), you might want to consider a 9mmP, or at most a .40, although, generall a .40 is a lot more snappy than a good .45.

Bottom line, you need to get a caliber and handgun that works WITH you. You are going to have your hands full dodging bullets, counting your shots, worrying aout your family, etc. Using your firearm should be easy.

EDIT: Sorry, I only se now that you will be using it for SD. My initial post still stands though.
 
Just a quick question , have any of you or know of anyone that ever used a paint ball marker with solid balls/rubber balls for home defense ?? Just interested to know how effective a deterrent it is. As its not illegal to own one and you need no licence either.

Do yourself a favor and check out this post on the Gunsite.co.za forum. I think you will get your answers there:

http://www.gunsite.co.za/forums/showthread.php?14397-Paintball-marker-instead-of-9mm-(

In short, bad idea.
 
Yeah I understand that but for me a 9mm is too fast. When I am in a situation where I need to shoot, I dont want to still have to position myself so that I do not hit someone behind the intended target when the 9mm goes through.
 
I'm sorry, but that comes down to the type of ammunitioin you intend using. If you shoot ball, i.e. round nose bullets, you will have substantially better penetration. Shooting JHP's, or Jacketed Hollow Points, you will have less penetration. Either way, shooting a 9mmP round at someone, chances of it passing through your target, and then through a concrete/brick wall as well, are pretty slim. Remember, we live in brick houses, not drywall houses like the yanks ;-)
 
@The_Mowgs : .45's are great, but you have to ask yourself what you intend using your firearm for. In general, a .45 is going to be much more difficult to shoot than, say, a 9mmP. Now, if this intended firearm is going to be used for selfd defence, you need to have a firearm that you can accurately place a shot, every time. Big bullets help nothing if you miss your target. That, with the additional disadvantage of magazine capacity (Your average 1911 holds 8 rounds, including the +1, and the Smith & Wesson M&P45 holds 10+1), you might want to consider a 9mmP, or at most a .40, although, generall a .40 is a lot more snappy than a good .45.

Bottom line, you need to get a caliber and handgun that works WITH you. You are going to have your hands full dodging bullets, counting your shots, worrying aout your family, etc. Using your firearm should be easy.

EDIT: Sorry, I only se now that you will be using it for SD. My initial post still stands though.
I agree. A 9mm will shoot just as dead as a 45 AND you'll have some extra shots spare in the magazine in case you need them. Also 9mm ammunition will cost you a lot less.
 
Another interesting one:

Source:http://www.nraila.org/Legislation/Federal/Read.aspx?id=6832

NRA-ILA said:
Gun Ownership Skyrockets, While Violent Crime Drops…Again

Friday, May 27, 2011

This week, the FBI estimated that the number of violent crimes decreased 5.5 percent from 2009 to 2010, including a 4.4 percent decrease in the number of murders. Because the U.S. population increased during the period, the figures imply that the total violent crime per capita rate and the murder rate decreased more than six percent and five percent, respectively. Based upon the preliminary data, it appears that violent crime fell to a 37-year low and murder fell to a 47-year low. The FBI will report final figures for 2010 later this year.


We’re repeating ourselves, but, as has been the case for quite a while, the decrease in crime coincided with an increase in the number of privately owned guns—particularly handguns and detachable magazine semi-automatic rifles. For example, Americans bought over 400,000 AR-15s in 2009, and trends in AR-15 sales over the last few years suggest a similar number for 2010.


Those who have followed the gun control issue for a few years probably have noticed that with crime declining and gun numbers rising year after year, gun control groups have all but abandoned their previously perennial claims that more guns equal more crime. Even their friends in the news media don’t believe it anymore. The Violence Policy Center and, breaking with past habit, the Brady Campaign didn’t even try to claim that the decrease in crime in 2010 was attributable to gun control.


Neither did Mayors Against Illegal Guns, headed by New York City’s gun control activist mayor, Michael Bloomberg. Bloomberg’s rare and welcomed silence is to be expected in this instance, however. New York City’s murder rate rose 15 percent despite its severe gun laws, while Bloomberg dedicated himself and lots of money to criticizing the less restrictive laws that are in place in other parts of the country.


Speaking of cities with less restrictive gun laws, El Paso had the greatest decrease in murder—58 percent— among cities of over 500,000 population in 2010. For those who are counting, El Paso’s estimated murder rate was 0.8 per 100,000 population, while New York City’s was eight times higher at 6.4. Across the border from El Paso, in Juarez, where the gun laws are more to Bloomberg’s liking, the murder rate is over 100 per 100,000.


Adding to the bad news for gun control supporters, the District of Columbia and Chicago—the handgun bans of which were repealed following the Supreme Court’s decisions in the Heller and McDonald cases in 2008 and 2010—experienced decreases in murder of eight percent and six percent, respectively.





Copyright 2011, National Rifle Association of America, Institute for Legislative Action.
This may be reproduced. It may not be reproduced for commercial purposes.
11250 Waples Mill Road, Fairfax, VA 22030 800-392-8683
Contact Us | Privacy & Security Policy
 
Fed-up resident outguns thugs

PretoriaNews.co.za said:
Fearing for his wife’s life as a robber held a gun to her head, an infuriated Pretoria resident took the law into his own hands and shot his attacker and at least one of his accomplices.

Jaap van Tonder, who is being hailed as a hero, simply had enough on Monday when he and his wife, Mari, were attacked as they stopped in the driveway of their Brooklyn home. The couple, who live opposite Pretoria Oos Primary and Pretoria Boys High schools, had just returned from a bank when at least three men, who are believed to have followed them, launched their lunch-time attack.

Stopping behind the couple, one of the gunmen ran up to them and put a gun to Mari van Tonder’s head as she climbed out of the car.

Frozen with shock, Mari van Tonder watched as her husband, realising that they were about to be robbed, fired at their attackers.

“I just froze. This man came at me out of nowhere,” she said.

“When I heard my husband screaming and then shooting I knew I was okay and that he was alive,” she added as a neighbour comforted her.

Jaap van Tonder fired at the man who was holding a gun to his wife’s head, wounded him in the chest and then chased him.

“I just grabbed my gun and started shooting. I shot until I had nothing left to shoot at. I’d just had enough. It was as simple as that,” he said.

“I was not going to let these thugs kill my wife or me or get away with our money.”

As the wounded gunman ran for the getaway car and climbed in, Jaap van Tonder pursued him, shooting at him.

He also fired at the man’s accomplices who, by then, were shooting at him from their vehicle.

As the men reversed from the driveway of his Roper Street home, Jaap van Tonder carried on firing, riddling their Mercedes-Benz with bullets.

“I was so angry. I was determined to do everything in my power to stop these guys,” he said.

Unable to keep up with the fleeing men, he abandoned his chase. The gunmen crashed into a vehicle driven by Pretoria University student Martin Zekveld, turned into Ambrose Street and escaped.

As Jaap van Tonder returned to check on his wife, the gunmen - some of whom are believed to have been seriously wounded - abandoned their car in William Street and hijacked a woman they had forced off the road.

Pushing a gun into her face and threatening to shoot her, they pulled the screaming woman from her car, a white VW Jetta, and then sped off in it.

When told that the gang had abandoned their silver Mercedes-Benz, Jaap van Tonder made his way to the scene, where residents hailed him as a hero.

“He could have been killed, but he didn’t think about it,” said a woman, who asked not to be named. “He was more concerned about stopping these guys than saving his own life. He is a hero.”

Sarel van Tonder (no relation) said it was good to know that there were people who were prepared to stand up to thugs.

“Too often people are afraid and rightly so, but it is fantastic when people like this guy come along and say ‘No more’,” he said.

Zekveld said he was driving from the university when he heard shots.

“I didn’t know what was happening. I heard the shots and then saw the car racing out of the driveway. It crashed into me before it raced off. It was so quick. You don’t even have time to realise what’s going on.”

Brooklyn police station commissioner Brigadier André Wiese said investigators found a 9mm pistol in the gang’s car. There was also blood in the car.

“At least one, if not more, were wounded during the shootout. We are searching the hospitals and are hoping to find the suspects soon.”

Wiese said Jaap van Tonder would not be charged as he had not done anything wrong.

“The man was defending himself and his family and could easily have been killed by those who were attacking him.” - Pretoria News

http://www.pretorianews.co.za/fed-up-resident-outguns-thugs-1.1076081

Guys, sorry I keep harping on with this. I am by no means trying to prove anything, I just want to create awareness around what is happening, and that gun ownership isn't always the evil people make it out to be. Especially for those who feel that you will get in trouble the moment you use your firearm.

A great success story. Give that man a Bells!!!
 
It is already tough to get a license in SA. Nobody has been any safer since the new laws came into play, because legal firearm owners are not the cause of crime in SA. You will currently be refused a license if you have a criminal record.

I again feel we have become safer (if we ignore corruption with police selling guns). With the assumption that corruption will remain low with the firearm process we can at least have less 20 year olds at youth league meetings standing with their guns in their trousers. The new laws make it much to difficult for every second guy to just pick up a firearm and go pay R100 at the police station and have it legally. Secondly, the people who just wanted guns for having a gun will not carry a gun around without fully understanding the weight of responsibility associated, leaving it in a bed-side table etc. Thirdly, the guys who now get firearms will have at least some training to understand how to handle a weapon safely.

These things obviously assume that we life in a world closer to ideal than we currently do, but I believe the gun-laws have a very good basis. A self-defence weapon should however be granted without approval relating to your motivations. Every person has the right to defend himself with a single weapon if he is a capable human being. The bull about someone not getting a sd weapon because he wants to use it for sd is bull and should be scrapped - once again, just my opinion.
 
Some valid points jmak, but I am inclined to disagree with you about us living in a safer world. Going by the stories reported on the news and in the paper, I hardly think this is the case. (and these are only the reported ones).

The system is flawed, and the rest of this reposnse will be based on that statement.

I have no problem if a 20 year-old owns and carries a firearm, regardless what he does or who he is, i.e. at a youth league rally, going to church, stuffing his face at McDonnalds. In fact, I have no problem if they bring back the law that you can get a firearm licence at the age of 17. Why must it be 21? Why is a person considered a major when they are 18 and are allowed to make decisions, like voting, driving a car, being employed, etc., but are still considered a minor by the Firearms Control Act, which stipulate they need to be 21 to apply for a firearm competency certificate? That's just another primse example of how contradictory and rediculous the Firearms Control Act really is.

I agree that people shouldn't want a gun just for the sake of having a gun, no argument there. BUT, why not? (just throwing a spanner in the works, but hear me out). How many times have you bought something, whatever, just because you wanted it? At the end of the day, a firearm is simply a piece of property, a tool, a device used to do XYZ. Same as a car, a hammer, or a new pair of shoes. I agree that there needs to be a great level of understanding and responsibility associated with having a firearm, and that holds true for anything that can cause injury or harm to another human being. By that token, the same process should apply for people buying cars, hammers, new butter knives, etc. But in essence, yes, I agree, people should be responsible, and those who aren't should be locked up in a deep dark hole and forgotten. The law is just so messed up that it makes it difficult for people to prove that they can be responsible.

As for the gun laws having a very good basis, they really don't.
 
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