Hashim Amla

...so...

Seeing that we are only comparing certain stats of the first 5000 runs rather than the last, what if Amla was picked earlier for ODI?...I mean, when he was still batting like a praying mantis with ADHD? Wonder what his first 5,000 runs would have looked like.
 
The way I see it is that if AB&Amla were the same race, e.g if they were both white Australians, or Sri Lankans I don't think there'd be any debate whatsoever as to who is the better batsman of the two. I get the sad impression here that many feel uncomfortable giving Amla the nod despite irrefutable stats.

So for whatever reason do you believe I am uncomfortable?
 
...so...

Seeing that we are only comparing certain stats of the first 5000 runs rather than the last, what if Amla was picked earlier for ODI?...I mean, when he was still batting like a praying mantis with ADHD? Wonder what his first 5,000 runs would have looked like.
I wonder why guys haven't called you out for your excessive and troll-like attitude towards Amla, all in the name of needlessly defending AB. So now Amla batted like an inexperienced Steve Smith, and then transformed into something with more grace than Saeed Anwar overnight? How on earth is your mind able to process that? Can you imagine if I had ever said anything that bad about AB, yet it's said I dislike him purely for posting stats and you get away with being this negatively graphic? If the ire directed in my direction was in anyway genuine you should not be able to get away with such reasoning.

I seriously don't know what you want. Post-readmission Amla has arguably been our best Test+ODI batsman. He's scoring runs&centuries faster than AB de Villiers in both Tests&ODIs.

The highest ODI score belongs to Gary Kirsten (#2 is Gibbs); Test score Amla (#2 is Kallis). Highest Test average is Kallis (#2 is Amla). I have no doubt&hope that AB will be quicker than Kallis to 8000 Test runs, but Amla will get there much quicker still.

Globally, in ODIs, the fastest to 1000-5000 is Amla. Next is Kohli. No one comes close to Amla's ODI average in the history of the game, plus fastest to 20 centuries too, light years ahead of many greats, never mind those in the making - Kohli,AB,Williamson&SteveSmith. In Tests many middle order batsmen we generally considered much slower batsmen than AB, but are all ahead of him. Of the greater ones Miandad&Mahela batted generally in the same position as him, and have done so quicker at certain periods.

AB holds the milestones to quick knocks - dislodging illiustrious names like Afridi&Anderson. Hardly earth-shattering. The most likely candidates to break them are still Maxwell, Ronchi - again it would take them miracles to be called great. Of those in this bracket the only one who can genuinely said to be a great is Afridi, because his name&innings appear several times to show that he was frequently capable of going crazy and succeeding, no matter what foundation was laid for him by those batting above him.

What really do you want? AB has done a fantsatic job to rebuild his Test&ODI career after he had some pretty low periods for quite some time. The fact that he's now managed to even come close Amla shows how much effort he's had to put in lately. And credit to him for that. But Amla will continue to be Amla, and be as consistent as ever so if AB keeps up the Proteas will continue to be a force over the next 5 years at least.

As for overtaking Amla, or ending up with a higher average(despite batting lower)/more centuries, that's not going to happen. The reality is for AB to do well consistently he needs Amla, but Amla doesn't need AB. So if Amla is inconsistent, AB won't be able to consistently deliver. The same was the case for Kallis. Amla rejuvenated him to a point where he now belongs alongside Ponting, Sachin, Chanderpaul, Dravid, Lara&Sanga, when it was seriously looking like he would stop at just a level below them at one point.

The consistently consistent point is that AB's career has non been consistently great like say Smith, Kallis or Amla. If it was then he would consitently be at the top or near it at various stages, but even his Test career is behind Kallis, Gibbs,Smith&Amla who batted higher than AB, yet other middle order batsmen from other cricketing nations did things quicker than those four. AB has been playing catchup a lot. As you know, many players had the luxury to allow their averages drop because of what they achieved years before - Mahela, Ponting, Smith etc. It won't be easy for AB going forward as most people think. A srecently as 18 months ago he's displayed the ability to go for periods over a year without form. So don't forget that. You run the risk of calling up this thread many years later and sounding stupid to yourself when he winds up with a 46 odd average in Tests&ODIs.
 
Yeah. A workaround would be for EVERYone to put him on ignore.

The problem with that is you can still see his quoted messages, and he can still see your messages and quote your messages, and if you are like me, then you want to know what he quoted you on.
If the "Ignore" function only had the option to hide users completely from each other, he would have been part of that list ages ago..
 
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The problem with that is you can still see his quoted messages, and he can still see your messages and quote your messages, and if you are like me, then you want to know what he quoted you on.
If the "Ignore" function only had the option to hide users completely from each other, he would have been part of that list ages ago..

I can't see his. If everyone ignores him, nobody would quote him, it'd be like he doesn't even exist.
 
So I was driving on the N2 in Somerset-West the other day and there's this huge poster in support of the Protea's team on the side of the Audi dealership.

only 3 players on it - Steyn, FAF and AB in the middle.

Audi still not happy with Amla's technik?
 
I wonder why guys haven't called you out for your excessive and troll-like attitude towards Amla, all in the name of needlessly defending AB. //
drivel
drivel
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The reason is that I am actually a huge fan of Amla.

Fact is that even though he is now one of the best in world, his poor technique was immediately exposed when he started. You love selective stats, so here are some:
First two series' he averaged 10 and he didnt get picked for another 15 months
The following 18 months he was given a continuous run while they worked on his technique which saw him bowled or LBW by quicks more than 50% of time for an average less than 30. These are facts

If you look at his technique then and now you can see the huge difference and wonder how he got to that level with the technique he had, though one sensed the talent underneath that poor technique.

This poor technique , poor form, low strike rate meant that his ODI debut was delayed by more than 3 years, meaning that he debuted well after significant improvements in form and technique. Facts.

Now, since you claim to have some sense, how can you equate his first 5,000 vs any other player who started immediately out of the blocks??

This is just one parameter I gave you. This is not about knocking Amla and praising AB, they are different, each being very important to SA's success, but imo AB's killer stats (vs Amla's foundation stats) are more valuable in finishing off/winning games. I look at all the stats, you choose some.

To accuse me of bagging Amla is silly. Everyone on this forum knows that I
a) am a strong supporter of quotas having been pivotal and successful.
b) I am very, very proud of the sons of previously disenfranchised showing that they too can be and are the best in the world.
c) I give 'white' saffers heaps of criticism for what I see as complaining against the status quo. "It is what it is", but I dont begrudge any of them.

So I am the last person to have a bias against heros like Amla vs AB.

However, I do not in troll fashion continue a biased agenda simply because of race. That is what you do.

cheers
 
...just some more meaningless comparitive stats according to the selection you are looking at:

Last 4000 runs: i.e. who is batting better/improving etc

They have scored it in same amount of innings, though AB at ave 65 vs Amla 56. The difference is the not outs, right?..one is opener, one is middle order. AB at SR 107, Amla 89. Two hundreds difference between the two.

The interesting thing is that AB's average is higher than his overall average, in other words he is batting better the more recent you look.
Amla's avarage is not any different to his overall and his last 4000 is worse than last 5,000...

Whatever you want to make of it

I think ZCF trolls at times, but he does have a point - without a platform AB doesn't do well.

Any middle order needs a platform most of time, but what are the stats to support that over last 4,000?

What is his average and SR when openers have failed?
 
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Fact is that even though he is now one of the best in world, his poor technique was immediately exposed when he started. You love selective stats, so here are some...If you look at his technique then and now you can see the huge difference and wonder how he got to that level with the technique he had, though one sensed the talent underneath that poor technique.

This poor technique , poor form, low strike rate meant that his ODI debut was delayed by more than 3 years, meaning that he debuted well after significant improvements in form and technique. Facts.

Now, since you claim to have some sense, how can you equate his first 5,000 vs any other player who started immediately out of the blocks??
So tell me again why isn't AB opening in all formats if he started well - "immediately off the blocks"?

Mr Holistic, I still can't find those stats of yours "that are not selective" anywhere. Did you send them via telegram? If you're having trouble finding them - he played 20 Test matches as an opener, and 37 ODIs as an opener.

By the way Graeme Pollock is a Test legend despite just 23 Tests, while Joe Root&Steve Smith are world beaters after just 22&26 Test matches respectively, so you can't tell me AB's 20 Tests as opener don't count.
 
So I was driving on the N2 in Somerset-West the other day and there's this huge poster in support of the Protea's team on the side of the Audi dealership.

only 3 players on it - Steyn, FAF and AB in the middle.

Audi still not happy with Amla's technik?
Ha ha ha!
 
Any middle order needs a platform most of time, but what are the stats to support that over last 4,000?

What is his average and SR when openers have failed?
Once again I don't understand you. Logically if AB was doing well both when there was a foundation plus when there was none, he would be averaging over 60 now taking into account his incredible purple patch recently. Seeing as Graeme Smith hasn't been doing well, Kallis has been average, QdK has been ok 30% of the time, while JP batted lower than him so he doesn't count; logically then, the only person who has been consistently good enough to lay that foundation is Amla. Which in effect means when Amla has failed AB has failed!

Have a look at this table which shows matches where both have been involved:
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...al1=span;team=3;template=results;type=batting

Narrow it down to when we've won:
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...al2=span;team=3;template=results;type=batting

Then have a look at the same stats when we've lost:
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...al1=span;team=3;template=results;type=batting

Surely if AB depended on AB, his average would not drop as low as 34 when we lose, and register zero centuries! Plus batting as low as he does, there's no reason for him to be OUT in every match when we've lost. He should be good enough to still be standing in at least 20% of the matches we've lost but he was never there over that period. Look closely at QdK's stats when we've won. In 20innings he's crossed 50 just 5 times. Amla has done that 31 times in 51 matches

In fact, I can go so much as to say without Amla, AB would've been a nothing batsman in ODIs! Proteas minus Amla = England minus KP! Ignore the Not Outs when we've won, and Amla has averaged 68, while AB has averaged 61. OzzieCapie, give it up mate!!!

AB&ProteasUselessMinusAmla1.png
 
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