HD digital TV

[sybawoods]

@sybawoods, to be fair that's not entirely true. 1080i is inferior for fast moving objects. Thus 720p is better for sports, and due to the limited bandwidth available is the first choice of most broadcasters. However, 1080i is great for movies and general interest content. If your screen is big enough, 1080i looks better than 720p for most content, and only fails with fast moving content where it tends to break up on details.

@feo SkyHD in the UK (unusually) picked 1080i as their choice, so it is a real option for SA as well. The Pace box is capable of handling a 1080i signal. Ideally Multichoice should alter the encoding based on the content... 720p for sports, and 1080i for movies... but i don't think that that'll happen.

edit: Just to confirm what sybawoods said: 1080i doesn't use much more bandwidth than 720p. (720p = 921,600 pixels per 50th of a second; 1080i = 1,036,800 pixels per 50th of a second... but since most content is, in fact, 1440 x 1080 and not 1920 x 1080.. it works out at only 777,600 pixels per 50th of a second)

Hi arf999
I know this is a debatable point. I'm sure your're aware though, that after exhausting testing of 720p vs 1080i, the European Broadcasting Union recommended 720p as the superior broadcasting standard. They actually published the details of how they arrived at this conclusion, which makes for interesting reading. Nevertheless, I agree, that the optimum solution is to be able to switch format / resolution on a program by program basis depending on content - not sure how practical that is though.

 

[arf9999]

Hi arf999
I know this is a debatable point. I'm sure your're aware though, that after exhausting testing of 720p vs 1080i, the European Broadcasting Union recommended 720p as the superior broadcasting standard. They actually published the details of how they arrived at this conclusion, which makes for interesting reading. Nevertheless, I agree, that the optimum solution is to be able to switch format / resolution on a program by program basis depending on content - not sure how practical that is though.

Yup, I'm aware of their recommendations, but it is important to note that their recommendations are split into 2:
Production (i.e. acquisition) and emission (broadcast). Their selection has more to do with VIDEO acquisition and the point that it is difficult to create p from i. The opposite is not true tho' and Film (naturally progressive @ 24fps) converts really nicely to interlace. In general Film to Video conversion for PAL territories is a 1:1 frame basis (the video version runs slightly faster @25fps). Thus deinterlacing does not create any artefacts, because the deinterlacer is merely reassembling the original frame.

 

[PeterCH]

Yep, it may be that they have some 1080p (progressive) trials going - that would be quite an achievement, and probably achievable for them given their broadband infrastructure. 1080p, as a broadcast standard, will remain prohibitive in most other parts of the world for the foreseeable future. Even where it is technically possible, the cost vs benefit, will continue to make it prohibitive.

Most broadcasts in Japan are in SD, if one reads around. They were ahead of everyone with their 1035i ANALOG system (a now defunct spec which my domestic Japanese HD plasma can also do ) but since they run various
channels some in HD some in SD, if you look at Channel WoWow for example,
one of the premier HD/SD TV satellite channels, they have limited HD feeds.
https://eww.pavc.panasonic.co.jp/pro-av/sales_o/04reports/hdd5_rep/wowow/wowow.html

However what is cool is that NHK is coming out with the Ultra High Definition video standard. They want to make this the de facto international standard by 2015 ie 7 years from now.

Super Hi-Vision, also known as Ultra High Definition Video, UHDV, Ultra High Definition Television, UHDTV and UHD is an experimental digital video format, currently proposed by NHK of Japan.

Super Hi-Vision's main specifications:

Resolution: 7,680 × 4,320 pixels (16:9) (approximately 33 megapixels)
Frame rate: 60 frame/s.
Audio: 22.2 channels
9 — above ear level
10 — ear level
3 — below ear level
2 — low frequency effects
Bandwidth: 21 GHz frequency band
600 MHz, 500~6600 Mbit/s bandwidth

UHDV resolution shown in comparison to other digital video formats.The new format with a resolution of 7,680 × 4,320 pixels is four times as wide and four times as high (for a total of 16 times the pixel resolution) as existing HDTV, which has a maximum resolution of 1920 × 1080 pixels. According to the Yomiuri Shimbun, the Japanese Ministry of Internal Affairs and Communications will be starting a public-private partnership to develop technology for UHDV in the hopes of setting an international standard for Super Hi-Vision in addition to broadcasting with it beginning in 2015.[1]

NHK's English site for UHDV (8K):
http://www.nhk.or.jp/digital/en/super_hi/index.html

Sure sucks not to be in Japan when it comes to high def video, ne?

 

[sybawoods]

Sure sucks not to be in Japan when it comes to high def video, ne?

Indeedio!

 

[PeterCH]

Resolution: 7,680 × 4,320 pixels (16:9) (approximately 33 megapixels)

At that res, they better remove the mosaics though.

 

[ToxicBunny]

I honestly doubt that standard will see the light of day for many many years... it just requires WAY too much bandwidth to be put into effect in anything but the most hitech of areas (and I mean that in terms of inside Japan)... it needs a 10gbps connection, given that the stream can use up to 6.6gbps of bandwidth.

 

[PeterCH]

I honestly doubt that standard will see the light of day for many many years... it just requires WAY too much bandwidth to be put into effect in anything but the most hitech of areas (and I mean that in terms of inside Japan)... it needs a 10gbps connection, given that the stream can use up to 6.6gbps of bandwidth.

People have said the same about HD. I'm sure it or something better will come along. HD is not going to be the final standard by any means.
If anyone can do it, NHK can ! After all they have Domu-kun .

Now as long as they get rid of those darned mosaics.... I'll be happy.

 

[ToxicBunny]

Oh, I'm not saying it won't happen.. Hell I know it WILL happen... just not by 2015 I don't think.. 2020 maybe... because that kind of bandwidth into a majority of homes is still out of Japans reach, and will be for some time I think.

 

[UnoPanelvan]

Oh, I'm not saying it won't happen.. Hell I know it WILL happen... just not by 2015 I don't think.. 2020 maybe... because that kind of bandwidth into a majority of homes is still out of Japans reach, and will be for some time I think.

In Africa? Never. By then there will be a Zim II, Zim III and Zim IV ....

Back to the old ages, just with no, animals and anything in nature as that will all be consumed.

 

[PeterCH]

Oh, I'm not saying it won't happen.. Hell I know it WILL happen... just not by 2015 I don't think.. 2020 maybe... because that kind of bandwidth into a majority of homes is still out of Japans reach, and will be for some time I think.

Well even with limited HD penetration in Japan, some people over there think
that 8K is the way to go. Sort of makes our little arguments here about 720p, 1080i and 1080p a little pointless. Maybe we won't see it outside of Japan(and some other Asian countries) for many years but they wouldn't be making
such claims if they were all hot air. Failure is embarrasing, you know.

 

[ToxicBunny]

I actually agree with them in terms of 8K being the way to go... just that it will have to make economic sense for them to deploy the technology and that will require a large portion of the population to be able to view it before they will.

UPV : I am talking about Japan, not here, I am under no illusions that Africa won't have that kind of bandwidth, let alone bandwidth to spare for broadcasting for MANY MANY years to come.

 

[SpoOkie]

Resolution: 7,680 × 4,320 pixels

Name me one TV/Screen/Monitor that can display that picture?!(and doesn't cost more than $100 000 )

The one thing I hate about living here is that we pay double for any electronics.. Was in America recently saw a 42" Aquios Full HD tv for $389.99,
It's depressing when you have to pay about R10 000 to get a full HD screen here

 

[Rouxenator]

I'm getting 720p as being a more than 100% improvement since your 576 standard is 720x576...

This equals 414720 pixels on the screen wheres 1280x720 gives 921600 pixels on the screen which is more than double the number of pixels on screen.

AFAIK the dstv HD broadcasts is anamorphic.

 

[arf9999]

nope. HD broadcast is native.

If DSTV starts to broadcast SD widescreen it will be anamorphic.

 

[PeterCH]

Name me one TV/Screen/Monitor that can display that picture?!(and doesn't cost more than $100 000 )

The one thing I hate about living here is that we pay double for any electronics.. Was in America recently saw a 42" Aquios Full HD tv for $389.99,
It's depressing when you have to pay about R10 000 to get a full HD screen here

I think SK/NM is using some 4K projectors in theaters.

However if you wanted to name a full HD screen 18 months ago in
South Africa - you'd have to quote a R250K projector or LCD too.

I'm sure NHK will get it right. If anyone can get it right they can.
Although just because they establish this standard and standarise
the tech to record and broadcast it, it doesn't mean people will
have such big sets at home. Even now most Japanese run SD at home
and most channels are SD. Then again in a country like US, Japan
or any European country - people just have so much more to do
than sit at home and stare at the boob tube.

As for HDTV prices in US, they are cheap. People earn more in comparison
to SA and electronics (and everything really) is just cheaper, with the
exception of real estate in places like NYC where an apartment
can cost you 10-20mil USD.

On the subject of Aquos, my cell has that tech

 

[ToxicBunny]

Thanks arf9999..

Rouxenator : Please, if you are going to attack a technology being used, learn the basics of the technology you are attacking. 720p as used by Multichoice is 1280x720... and they use standard PAL resolutions on SD broadcasts, therefore different aspect ratios etc etc.

 

[arf9999]

I think SK/NM is using some 4K projectors in theaters.

IIRC they're using 2K Christie projectors.

As for HDTV prices in US, they are cheap. People earn more in comparison
to SA and electronics (and everything really) is just cheaper, with the
exception of real estate in places like NYC where an apartment
can cost you 10-20mil USD.

QFT. In addition the USA don't have protective tarriffs to protect the local TV industry. Duty and excise on a television is around 35% of the FOB value... and then you pay 14% VAT on top of that. So when you buy a R10000 TV, SARS gets around R3400.

 

[PeterCH]

IIRC they're using 2K Christie projectors.


QFT. In addition the USA don't have protective tarriffs to protect the local TV industry. Duty and excise on a television is around 35% of the FOB value... and then you pay 14% VAT on top of that. So when you buy a R10000 TV, SARS gets around R3400.

Does SA have a local TV industry? Who assembles TVs in SA? Don't they all get shipped from China (mostly)?

 

[arf9999]

Does SA have a local TV industry? Who assembles TVs in SA? Don't they all get shipped from China (mostly)?

hmmm. Good point. There are some manufacturers locally: Tedelex, Panasonic/Futronic, and some Chinese guys like Hisense. Most sets are 51cm and 72cm CRT ones. It seems that some manufacturers are looking at local production of LCD models, but will pro'ly be the same suspects. It doesn't make any financial sense whatsoever given the small volumes in SA and our local productivity.

 

[UnoPanelvan]

Does SA have a local TV industry? Who assembles TVs in SA? Don't they all get shipped from China (mostly)?

Nope, there is many brands assembled in Africa AFAIK. The localised cheap name brands. Swaziland comes to mind as I had to direct call there for a repair manual once.