Helkom "For my own good"

The_Librarian said:
If I invent time travel, then I'll send a terminator back through my time travel thingy to mess telkom up. :D

Looking at the state of Telkom I guess you must have done it. Pity we have a bit of collateral damage ;0)
 
Silent_Bob said:
lol, telkom are just incompetent retards

Thats just wrong!!! You are giving incompetent retards a bad name :D
 
marjb said:
On the 10th of this month i got a call from the Telkom Accounts department to advise that i have to make a payment on my account.

...

On Thursday 18th i pick up the phone to phone a client - i was in the middle of negotiating a deal- and i have no lines......
Needless to say i phone to report a fault and get told i have been suspended.

...

I asked [Telkom] if the account is in arrears and i was told it was not - just over the limit
Hello, marjb.

I suggest that you obtain a copy of Telkom's "Standard Terms and Conditions" (the FULL version, not the abridgement which is attached to telephone-service application forms), familiarize yourself with its contents, and then email to (e.g.) Telkom's legal-services department a letter along the following lines:

"Dear Sirs,

On ............ 2005, I received my monthly invoice from Telkom (dated ............ 2005) in the amount of R............ payable on or before ............ 2005.

In fact, though, my service (at xxx-xxx-xxxx) was suspended on ............ 2005 — i.e. some X days PRIOR to the relevant "due date" of ............ 2005 — even though there were in fact no outstanding arrears on my account at the time of the suspension. Upon telephonic enquiry as to the reason for the suspension, I was told that I had exceeded my "credit limit" of R............ .

I have examined a copy of Telkom's "Standard Terms and Conditions" and have been unable to find therein any provision, either in clause 7.1 ("Suspension") or elsewhere, entitling Telkom to suspend my service for non-payment of an amount which has not yet become due. (It is true that clause 6.3.2 entitles Telkom, at its own discretion, to "demand immediate payment of any amounts due by the customer" — but the amounts have to be "due" before they can be demanded in this way, and you cannot make them "due" simply by threatening suspension of service unless they are immediately paid).

In the circumstances, I would ask that you reply to this email (TODAY, please) informing me of the contractual provision(s) (if any) relied upon by Telkom as justifying the suspension effected on ............ . Should there be (as I suspect) no such provision(s), I would appreciate your assurance that no repetition of this behaviour on Telkom's part will occur.

In the event of a recurrence of the behaviour now complained of, I shall regard Telkom as responsible for any consequential damages suffered. In this regard, I would ask you to consider yourselves on notice (as from the time of your receipt of the present email) that the telephone service for which I have contracted with Telkom on the basis of the aforementioned "Standard Terms and Conditions" is in fact in use for the conduct of my estate-agency business and that the consequential damages arising out of any future suspension in breach of the contract are likely to include substantial amounts attributable to lost commission on missed sales.

Yours faithfully,

[Signature]"


That may or may not do much good, but at least I can't see how it can do any harm. And it might just get you flagged as a customer not to mess around with in this way in future.


Michael Alachouzos
 
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Hi this has been my day with Telkom!! I have been in the process of trying to obtain a copy of the standard terms and conditions to sent the letter off to them (thanks for the help - it is a great letter!!!!!) Funny but they are not forthcoming with the full version. Not on their website either. Their legal department is not available to assist in this regard either so i shall go in to their offices tomorrow. For a telecoms company they are sure eager to make you come to them in person and not deal with you over the phone. Also for a company that says all calls are recorded they sure go mum when you tell them that the calls are in fact being recorded from your side. I found them to be very evasive with regard to reference numbers on the so called recorded calls and i was told that the calls simply "may" be recorded but that may not necessarily always be the case. - It seems when they are in the wrong then the latter recording preference applies so i took it upon myself to ensure that the calls WERE recorded but had to fulfil the legal requisite of advising them of the fact before proceeding with the call. Then they were no longer keen to "assist" with my call.

Marj
 
marjb said:
I have been in the process of trying to obtain a copy of the standard terms and conditions to sent the letter off to them (thanks for the help - it is a great letter!!!!!) Funny but they are not forthcoming with the full version. Not on their website either. Their legal department is not available to assist in this regard either so i shall go in to their offices tomorrow.
Hi, Marj.

According to the paragraph 3 of the abridged version (which is attached to Telkom's standard "Telephone service order form for new customers"), the full version (referred to in the abridgement simply as "The standard conditions") is "available for perusal at any Telkom customer service branch and can be inspected free of charge during normal office hours".

So all that you have to do — or so, at any rate, Telkom would have you believe — is to turn up at any Telkom customer service branch during normal office hours and say "Hello, I have come to peruse your standard conditions (full version), so please provide me with a copy for my inspection free of charge".

Try doing that tomorrow, and let us know how you get on!

Michael Alachouzos


PS: If the above fails, I will put you out of your misery by sending you a copy as an email attachment (I'm a lawyer and I happen to have an emailable version to hand). Just send me a message at [email protected] if you need it. But I'd really like to know, first, what reaction you get if you turn up at a customer service branch and ask to peruse the thing there.
 
Hi - here is the feedback on my expidition to Telkoms offices: I went in there and was helped at customer services by one Mpumi Mdyogolo. I very sweetly asked him for a copy of the terms and conditions and was referred to the the abridged version. I then told him that i needed the full version. After much clicking on his mouse he eventually located the document on his system and started printing. He then starts to hand it to me and i asked him so sweetly to show where it gives Telkom the Option to suspend for a credit limit. He flicks through, disappears to the back and tells me he printed the old one and that the new version has it in. So he does some more clicking ( i in the mean time was entertained by cartoons on the TV screen behind him). Eventually he hands me the new one and i again ask him to show me the clause. I was told that he does not know which clause but if i read it i will find it myself or phone customer sercices. I told him i would perfer it if he shows me instead as i am already sitting at customer services i want to spare myself the aggravation of the telephone call- Besides i'm suspened!!! (i dont think he caught that fact!). He then tells me he has not read the terms and conditions. Imagine my horror- i asked him how he can refer me to a document that he has not read himself. At that point i was informed that "I DO NOT HAVE TIME FOR THIS!" and he stomps off. Then came one LEBO who was superb. He dodged the issue of the terms and conditions effectively and proceeded to get my lines up without much ado. He told me he logged the dispute and MY LINES ARE UP UNTIL THE DISPUTE IS RESOLVED!!That in itself is an about swing in Telkoms policy of pay first talk later. He then asked me if i would agree to a credit limit of R 6000. At which point i told him that no credit limit was agreed to and i will not agree to one now out of duress. He left it at that........saga to continue!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Marjb,

You are in the wrong profession.
You should have been a lawyer.
Well done to yourself and to Mr Alachouzos for his help who continues to amaze me with his knowledge of Jurisprudence.
 
Just a question out of interest: The PAIA stuff which needs to be published etc etc...

Would one be entitled to obtain all the facts considered when Telkom set a credit limit? Could one "force" Telkom to proof that they applied their minds appropriately before setting a credit limit?

We have also been the victims of this - and Telkom refused to provide a detailed invoice for the account up to that date. It smells of racketeering and extortion. Pay-up, without any documentation, or else...

Few SMME's can get hold of that kind of money unscheduled in the middle of the month.
 
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Hi Kaspaas,

I am sure that you can compel Telkom to provide access to that information in terms of the Access to information Act if you can show that you are protecting a right in the the bill of rights or if you can show that it is in the public interests to compel them. I may be wrong on that score but it may be a good place to start.Download the form and fill it in say which right you need to protect and see what happens.
 
marjb -- I'm glad that this worked, and that your lines are now up. And I don't think they'll ever find the clause! :-) Unless, of course, they amend their standard conditions (or have already amended them since the date of my copy) by inserting one. :-(

kaspaas -- I'll do some legal research relevant to your question, and then try to answer it over the weekend. My initial feeling, though, is that you probably can oblige Telkom to disclose the facts/reasons etc which they've taken into account in setting a credit limit -- either by invoking PAIA or by relying upon (a) the Constitution and/or (b) common-law principles of administrative law which pre-existed PAIA. However, I am in doubt as to whether such manoeuvres are in fact presently necessary: what's wrong with just asking them to show you whereabouts in their standard conditions provision is made for the suspension of services for credit-limit reasons at all? That seems -- so far, at any rate -- to have worked for marjb. :-)

Michael Alachouzos
 
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Rofl

I've not laughed so much in a long time... It’s really sad.

I've also had my own problems but no this bad. What really annoys me is when I was using a normal 56K modem connection to ABSA (my ISP) server there server sometimes was down or I'd get a bad connection and each time a connection was attempted Hellkom would charge R0.52 ... How can you charge a client multiple times for calls with a duration of less than 10 seconds i.e. R187 per hour for absolutely nothing!!!!! Ahh yes the word nothing comes to mind when we had our phone down (plus neighbours) for 2 weeks and they never apologized / reimbursed us for the inconvience, this was after they "FIXED" one persons lines and left the rest of us out in the dark...

I once had one of their technicians telling me that our line was perfectly fine after doing a continuity test (that just tells me some signal can get through big deal I can get a sound signal through a piece of string, that doesn't mean we should use string instead of copper). I then indicated to him that our 56K modem was connecting at 6.7K (connection speed) which certainly showed the noise on the line. i.e. there must have been some interference on the line/exchange.

Oh yes another classic which I must mention was a SMS message we kept getting on our phone??? A far as I understand there is no such service on a normal line never mind the fact that we phoned this person and he said he never sent any message... It kept on sending this message at intermittent durations between a few minutes and hours for many days (late at night ringing etc.....). Their solution was for us to unplug the phone!!!!! What's the point of having the phone in the first place!!!! Their second solution was to listen to the message until it ended, but it always ended short with no instructions!!!! and this made no difference. Eventually after phoning them many times and telling them to make it stop/block that number/ SMS message.... they did this and it continued a few days later. Fortunately we have since moved from this house and don't intend on keeping the number.

Sorry but I'm sure many people will probably laugh at all this as well, but I can't help wander how secure/confidential our calls are, when on more than one occasion I've picked up the phone (no ringing) and heard other peoples conversations on the other end!!!!!

I almost want to weep when I see their TV adverts: High speed, reliable, friend and affordable services!!!!!

We have since moved and I'm waiting for a new line looking for some cheep decent option that is reliable... hmm don't think those words are in Hellkoms vocabulary. They have already managed to damage our new complex by taking out a wall at one of our neighbours (can't even drive their vehicles properly).

We spent some time enquiring if our complex was on their system yet (all neighbouring complexes are and they use the same exchange box). We were told by one person that we aren't but found another that says we are... Apparently some people in our area / complex zone took over a year to get their lines :-(

PS They must just aggravate me again and I'll start ripping out and melting their copper cables for money (why don't they replace them with fibre where they keep on getting stolen on long stretches?).
 
Don't ask for fibre until they start implementing VDSL! Otherwise you'll be stuck with dail-up! :D

PS. Welcome to the forums! Just saw it's your first post!
 
:D Yes knowing them they'll install the cables (charge you exorbitant prices even though they are relatively cheep except the Kevlar shielding) and won't have the necessary transmitter/receiver at their end to operate it!!! In some respects it still wouldn't help since we would probably still have a bottleneck at the Atlantic pipe, I have always wonder exactly what international bandwidth we have, I remember seeing some world map with an indication of bandwidths between contents (from certain countries) I think ours was a pathetic fraction (< 1/100) :eek: of Israel's (remember they cannot go through Europe directly since they have Arab neighbours) even though we have a similar distance required for our Atlantic pipe :mad:
 
Hi All!!!

Well what do you know - this morning i am without phones again!!! This time some guy called David Seema from Telkom calls to tell me i have been suspended for eceeding the "CREDIT LIMIT" - Only thing is this time i did my payment to Telkom Yesterday in full by way internet payment- so when i told him it is impossible to be over the credit limit he tells me my account is on R4000- since i have just paid R 3006.66 it is impossible!! I am told that i must wait 48 hours for the payment to interphase with their system so until then no lines..... not for non - payment of course. I have never seen a company more obstructive to the enconomy than HELLKOM!!!!
 
oh my word... are you being punished because their system is sub par? i know nothing of the law, but i am sure this borders on blackmail
 
Well- whadaya know!!! I threatened them with an urgent application - within 15 minutes i was reconnected!! I thought i had to "wait for the payment to interpase within 48 Hours"???? Explain that one!!! Goal posts on wheels!
 
marjb said:
Well- whadaya know!!! I threatened them with an urgent application - within 15 minutes i was reconnected!!
Good. You're learning!

I'm not going to have much time for posting on the MyADSL forum for the next couple of weeks or so, Marj, but if this happens to you again then phone me ((011) 886 0191) and I'll try to advise/help you about it by telephone. No charge: I hate Telkom!

Michael Alachouzos
 
I wonder if anyone else has had this happen to them I asked Telkom to let me know what the charges for ADSL were. I told them they were too high, nevertheless the following month they charged me for going over the Gigabyte limit on two ocassions. Turns out a friend of mine also had the same experience. I wonder, if they can find me
downloading on a none existant line, what is happening to ADSL users
Ron Wells
 
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