Helpdesk response 'Get a firewall and antivirus'!

[LoneGunman]

(Mods please delete all off-topic posts, thanks)

An Iburst Helpdesk Correspondence

Noticed an odd Sentech-like trend with one of the helpdesk Orcs, called Tyrone. Simply put, no matter what I said - as far as he was concerned, there was no problem whatsoever.
I was getting up to 50% packet loss - 'no there's always going to be some packet loss'. My UTD showed I was getting a total of maybe 7kb speeds - he's like 'look its probably your MTU settings'.
So it didn't matter what I said - he either made it seem like it must be my problem, or else he effectively shrugged and repeated that the technicians said everythings fine. Given that this is Sentech-style approach, I thought I'd overrreact accordingly

I cut and paste the following ping result to him:
....(snip)
Ping statistics for 196.30.31.120:
Packets: Sent = 28, Received = 16, Lost = 12 (42% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 960ms, Maximum = 1696ms, Average = 1285ms

He gives me new MTU settings, which change nothing. I disconnect, reconnect via ethernet, onto another tower - and its better - and in the interim, I speak to Thato, who tells me there IS a problem with Auckland Park, and now I'm connected to Northcliff..
Then I get this from Tyrone:

----------------------HIS RESPONSE

>XXX
>
>Please get the following. spyferret www.spyferret.com
adaware from www.lavasoft.com Spybot - Search & Destroy 1.3 - product description Application to scan for spyware, adware, hijackers and other malicious software.
Detection updates 2005-03-19 - product description
This updates the detection rules. Only needed if you do not want to
use the update function integrated into Spybot-S&D.
Advanced check library update 2004-10-14 - product description
This is an update for a detection library. Only needed if you do not
want to use the update function integrated into Spybot-S&
http://www.safer-networking.org/en/download/index.html

Usually when you see latency and pings like that its something either
sending or recieving from your pc. Normal antivirus doesnt pick up
such things. i have found that adaware does not pick up everything
either so i run 3 adware and spyware programs.

In the line of antivirus and Firewalls i would recommend using
zoneAlarm from www.zonelabs.com and AVG from www.grisoft.com.

Please install spybot s&d and install the two addons which are just
under the download link on the spybot page i have given you. once you
have installed them please do the update in spybot and adaware and
scan after you have updated them.

Many thanks

Tyrone

-------------------------- MY CHEERFUL OVERREACTION:

Dear Tyrone
Thanks for the infor re spyware.
However:

I'm not stupid, I have multiple layers of spyware/adware/trojan and antivirus on my pc which update every 3 hours. These ping results are from YOUR broken network, not from anything whatsoever to do with my PC - this was further confirmed late on friday night by Thato who told me that Auckland Park Tower - which I was connected to, at the time of those ping results - was malfunctioning. I reconnected and according to Thato, was then on Northcliff.

I understand you're trying to avoid facing up to the fact that YOUR network has a problem, but please, its very insulting to customers when they can tell the difference between THEIR problem and YOUR problem - and you choose to consistently avoid taking responsibility for a problem on your side, as well as attempt to make me the Customer believe that 'it must be my fault in some way'.

This is not helpful, it's not productive, its also operating on a fairly offensive
assumption that your paying Customer can't tell when your Network is experiencing faults.

This kind of game is what Sentech played with I and many others for months on end so its very familiar to me, and it will be to others as well.

I'd appreciate it if you took a step back from your operating position, and consider that there are customers of IBurst who have a lot more IT knowledge than many of you folks at the helpdesk - this isn't being said to be somehow 'superior' in any way - merely to point out that its highly irritating to be treated and 'handled' as if the complainant was a stupid first-time-net user.

I've been online for some 11 - 12 years now, and yet throughout my entire call to you - you refused to acknowledge or believe
a) that anything I stated about my observations, speed tests or ping results, showing faults on your network was valid or 'true'
b) that you could do anything to rectify the situation, apart from repeating 'that you had spoken to the technician and he'd said there was no problem'
c) despite clear evidence, as stated in my ping results and UTD terminal readings - showing massive degradation of signal, you offered up only some MTU settings, and thereafter, nothing, apart from your email suggesting that I download programs, to fix MY pc.

Given the far more professional and experienced Thato, who actually listened to what I had to say, took my evidence, and cross checked it against the traffic logs, and saw that I was quite right - I would have to say that you appear to be operating from some kind of perspective that 'the customer is ignorant, always wrong, and cannot determine whether something is wrong with your Network'.

I would suggest that rather than try and make the customer fit into YOUR assumptions about the existing situation, when they call in - you might take the time to LISTEN to whether or not the Customer seems to have a good grasp of what is occurring re your Network, and to then adjust your attitude and help accordingly.

The object of your job is not to 'defend your Network against any suggestion that its faulty' - but to listen to your Customers, assess their understanding of the problem they experience, and provide an honest solution - which includes acknowledging there's a problem in your Network, when there is one. Otherwise you're simply playing mind games with customers and wasting both your and their time, and doing IBurst very little good.

Perhaps you thought you were helping - however, given that
a) Your network was faulty at the time
and
b) You refused to accept this, and even now, with your latest email, refuse to accept this simple truth,

I feel this choice you made at the start of our communication, of clearly assuming Customer ignorance, avoiding responsibility and acceptance of the fact of a genuine Network Fault as pointed out by a customer, needs to be pointed out to you very clearly, as its unacceptable, unproductive and in similar territory to Sentech's helpdesk staff, who became infamous for
blatant lying about the state of their network, to their customers.

This email to you is being placed online, along with the ping results, and your email to me - so that other customers can consider this. It is also being forwarded to the relevant IBurst Management personnel.

yours sincerely
etc

 

[slimothy]

OK i'll say one thing on topic since its an easy problem to fix, to find out what is chewing up your connection all you need is NetLimiter, it is a windows shaping application that lets you see what programs are using the connection and how much they are using. You can also shape or block a programs internet access. So if you had a very unique spybot or whatever on your PC that your antivirus/spyware apps didn't know about you coudl just see it plain as day in netlimiter and then continue with removing it but in the mean time you could block its access. Also it read child proccesses too so if an app is created and a child proccess is spawned and the parent killed off (ussually done to keep an app invisible from the proccess list) you could still see it running in netlimiter if it used the connection at any point.

Much better than netstat and all the crap they told you to use.

Having got that out the way, obviously the helpdesk people are not exactly computer g0ds, they just pick up what they can, what they need to and thats it. So why on earth would you be trying to strike up conversations with them when you already know the outcome, they will make a bunch of assumptions and make some things up and probably give you an obvious solution for an obvious problem which you dont have.

Oh one last thing, you dont need to be stupid to get a virus, zombie bot, worm, trojan or kiddy on your machine, every computer running software is vulnerable to something and firewalls/anti virus, spyware, adware, whatever apps are not absolute they just help make it a little harder. Go to security focus and look for exploit or search bugtraq for firwall exploits.

 

[guest2013-1]

Good one LoneGunman, I've dealt with Tyrone before as well, and let me tell you, I could explain to him what the exact problem is till I'm blue in the face, ALL he EVER tells you is to "check your MTU settings" or "Do you have a firewall installed?"

There was this one rare occasion I had problems on Northcliff, called in, and got the response of "MTU settings + firewall + nothing is wrong" and he was cut short by another customer support agent who had a similar call from someone AS he was speaking to me that was experiencing problems on northcliff as well.

He THEN ONLY told me they'll call the technician after I repeatedly asked him to do so. Yesterday Porscha promised to call me back by 16:00, when she didn't, I spoke to Thato, who IMMEDIATLY helped me, no "um, I don't know" or "I have to check here", he even told me that I could come in today and swop my modem if I wanted to, took my name and details and said that he won't be there himself, but he'll make sure they'll get the message.

I mean... why can't we have more people like Thato? Even Dylan (to my knowledge) isn't that helpful! (Or in the past hasn't proven to be as helpful as Thato has)

 

[LCE]

I had a similar experience with the helpdesk. The Kempton Park tower went down. I phoned the help desk and their response was that I need to reinstall my drivers. My connection is throw a Linux firewall. Then, I also tested the connection directly with my Windows PC. Two of my computers can't just brake like that.

The helpdesk person again: “Reinstall your drivers” I throw the phone down and phoned back 15 minutes later. The helpdesk person's reply: “The Kempton Park tower is down. The Radio people are on their way there.”

iBurst is a great system and I am happy with the service (if it is up!!). But the iBurst system can brake like any other system.

Helpdesk people >> If users call you make sure of your facts or you might be proven the idiot!!!!!

 

[LoneGunman]

I think a part of the helpdesk training should be as I said in my mail - 'listen to the customer, assess their knowledge and understanding of the problem, then crosscheck this against the actual reality' - (and if you CANT check this, tell the customer you can't, and make the calls to someone who CAN) - instead of assuming the customer is stupid. Some of the helpdesk folk are clearly working with their own incorrect agenda's and perceptions, from the start of every phone call. This just wastes everyones time and fixes nothing.

Thato is a good example of how a Helpdesk person should be - he only makes ONE assumption (and its the correct logical one) - namely that the customers experience is 'real' and 'true' - and then he tries to work out what can be adjusted with HIS Service (IBurst), to help the customer.

Whereas a number of the Helpdesk folk seem to start from an assumption that the Service is fine, and the Customers own mistakes or ignorance are causing a problem for them.

We've been here before, *points to the Orcs of Sentech*

 

[bb_matt]

One can only hope that iBurst management, or at least the manager of the helpdesk dept. gets the message and has a good talk with the staff - basically, get your act in gear or get out. There's plenty of people looking for jobs in this country !

I remember the Orcs at Sentech only too well, it looks like the same type of person is at WBS too - perhaps these people get drawn into helpdesk jobs just so they can be rude and dismissive - possibly a power trip of sorts ?

I'm watching with interest at how things develop with iBurst - hoping it doesn't end up like MyWireless !

 

[Shaun Green]

Thanks for sharing your experiences.

We need feedback to improve.

 

[jjtoymachine]

Shaun who must i talk to about getting uncapped local usage? I promise i wont be rude i just want to put through my veiw as a person trying to run a small local company's IT department.