High School Initiation

You're missing the point - it's not about proving their damn manhood.

Of course it isn't - they are stilling trying to do that.

Initiation is dumb. There is absolutely no proof that it is 'good' for you and is going to make you respect your elders. In fact, the cycle has to be broken at some point because while it continues the matrics will keeping telling us to do things for them, and we're going to keeping on peeing in their tea.
 
If someone was trying to "initiate" me he'd get stabbed/shot. Seriously, I was in Standard 6 in 1992 and even though there was talk before we started high school there was none of that *****- the worst scenario was that some of the boys got picked out for "special duties" but it verged more an the farcical than anything violent/humiliating.

I can't believe that almost two decades later there was still some people who would advocate bullying- cause that's what it is.
 
All of you who have said initiation is not so bad and we shouldn't over react have obviously not been emotionally scarred by the practice. Initiation is totally unneccessary.

When I went into residence at university, there was no initiation, it was orientation. And it was fantastic. The seniors took use all over Cape Town, gave us plenty of free drinks and food and we had a lot of fun and very positive experiences - and you know what? That gave us far more respect for the seniors than some malicious beatings and relentlessly degrading activities.

You earn respect, you don't demand it - that is why initiation is just rebranded torture.
 
Respect through fear is not respect at all.

Did you actually read my post? You come to learn to respect the school and it's people by learning it's traditions, by learning about it's people. Some people can't get away from the "initiation = physical abuse" thing. There was no physical abuse involved for me.

For schools, especially boarding schools, a sense of belonging is important. I think people who haven't been wouldn't understand so much of this stuff, yet they tend to be the biggest critics.

And sorry, to compare high school to university is silly - two completely different things. An O-Week is completely different to 'initiation'. You're mixing a group which is basically all adults, whereas at high school you have 14 year olds with 18 year olds which is a massive difference.
 
Schools need to come down hard on any and all forms of initiation. Or give the younger children blanket permission to exact their own revenge.

"Tradition" can only be good things.
Don't know where you get that crazy idea. Traditions are just things people have always done and which they keep doing even when they're stupid or outdated.

We had to learn about things like the history of the school, and we had to learn the names of all the rankholders and be able to greet them by name.
Orientation. No need for anything further.

However, it was more of a mentor system
Then assign mentors, and allow only what would be allowed at work between adults.

I think the main things it teaches is respect for elders.
Don't know where you get that bizarre notion. Just the opposite.

So I'm more for that kind of orientation type thing
Orientation does not require anything other than...orientation.

You come to learn to respect the school and it's people by learning it's traditions, by learning about it's people.
Did just the opposite with most of the people I was at school with. I don't think the morons who were prefects at the time had even the vaguest clue of how counterproductive it actually was. The lesson was clear to the juniors though - the seniors are pathetic idiots. When a new headmaster took over he put a complete stop to it. The seniors were told it was an expulsion offence. What I noticed was that it was only the known bullies who grumbled about not being allowed to haze the juniors.

For schools, especially boarding schools, a sense of belonging is important.
Does not require any kind of initiation. In fact initiation will alienate some children.

I think people who haven't been wouldn't understand so much of this stuff, yet they tend to be the biggest critics.
Only those who have been tortured are entitled to criticise it.

And sorry, to compare high school to university is silly - two completely different things. An O-Week is completely different to 'initiation'. You're mixing a group which is basically all adults, whereas at high school you have 14 year olds with 18 year olds which is a massive difference.
All the more reason why degrading or humiliating them is totally unacceptable.

What the male seniors involved in initiations need is a good stiff kick in the balls. Build camaraderie and make them feel part of the group.
 
Obviously this seems to happen more at boarding schools but im sure it happens quite a bit else where too. I matriculated last year and I can say that when I was in Grade 8 there was none of this *** and last year we didnt try any of this ***. I think its rather immature and I somehow think that it mainly happens at these rich boarding schools. I will say this though, if somebody had to try *** with me even if they 18 and im 13, I would kick him in his ****.
 
When I was at school prefect punishments were worse than initiations. Initiations often involved sprinting non-stop till you threw up, pranking the principal, climbing to the top of the rugby poles and not moving for half an hour, having to play open gates with the 1st team prop but you're only allowed to run straight, having to sit in the girl's school's pool naked just before their break time - in winter etc - no real harm was done apart from possibly playing open gates with the prop - but it was no different to being tackled on the pitch though so it was a moot point. The prefect punishments were always worse though. The cane was made out of bamboo and sand paper...
 
back in the day I was one of the "bad crowed" the gr12 kids tried to abuse us, I took the guys bat and "moerd" him over the head and whacked his buddy on the spine and told them you can't expel me you <insert fun words here> so I'm not giving into this useless fun you having.

They were upset and threatened me but I laughed and told them try. Luckily I was a fat buff kid back in the day so no worries for me but the smaller lighties couldn't do much and their "boer background parrents did not really bother with it because they think their kids shouldnt be sissies and take it like men.

Bending over and taking it from behind is being a man OMF sounds like telkom.

DO you know HOW HARD IT IS for a school to expel people? Don't take this cr*p from gr12 kids if your gr8 "moer them back" you are more stand together and "moer" them stupid kids :)

if you ALLOW people in to make you bend over from child hood and let those hoodlums get their way because they are higher up in the system I'm sorry my friend but your the reason the ANC and telkom and Eskom and the rest of the world is so not hunky dory, RISE UP clench your fist remove a gr12's teeth and say it was a reaction of self defense with out thinking and the school can't touch you!
 
"Yeah ... you're a jock ... you just needed to pick on the small ones ... and when you were in std 6 they left you alone" etc etc

This is probably the truth, although you deny it for the time being. I found that, especially if your older sibling is in matric, they leave you alone, because they're afraid of your older brother.


When I was at school prefect punishments were worse than initiations. Initiations often involved sprinting non-stop till you threw up, pranking the principal, climbing to the top of the rugby poles and not moving for half an hour, having to play open gates with the 1st team prop but you're only allowed to run straight, having to sit in the girl's school's pool naked just before their break time - in winter etc - no real harm was done apart from possibly playing open gates with the prop - but it was no different to being tackled on the pitch though so it was a moot point. The prefect punishments were always worse though. The cane was made out of bamboo and sand paper...

These things sound like torture, plain and simple, the kinds of things that happen in Eastern countries when you're a POW or regarded as an enemy of the state.

Does this crap happen in American and European schools? Not as far as I know. And why does it have to happen? My theory is this, we have a totally fscked up society that sees it fit to harm younger people under the guise of "bonding", "acceptance", "earning respect" and various other adjectives, when as someone mentioned it could be homosexual fantasy, but in reality I still am of the position it is the same old people, the same old label, "jocks" the same kind that drives towtrucks, or the more affluent 4x4 drivers that have shaved their heads and hide behind sunglasses, even in a restaurant, and push their weight around on the roads, in shopping centres, etc..

Down with "initiation" and maybe we will see less shopping mall brawls and over a period of years be rid of the pricks on SA's roads
 
These things sound like torture, plain and simple, the kinds of things that happen in Eastern countries when you're a POW or regarded as an enemy of the state.

Are you soft or something? I'd agree that such things seem more appropriate in a college hostel enviroment than high school, but torture? My dear dear deluded friend, if you think this is torture you will cry yourself to death within the first day if you ever end up a POW.
 
anyone who thinks initiation is a good thing and enforce it suffers from a minority complex, have the need to force his so called "power" out on others and fails to realize that he will not earn respect through it.
 
Morgoth:

What you fail or just dont want to understand is that initiation has some greatly positive effects if implemented correctly but only if it is done at tertiary education level. I was at hostel back when it was still allowed to initiate first years, and one thing I saw is is that because of the initiation hostel had no racial problems whatsoever.

It's a multi-racial hostel, all first years were treated equally, everyone suffered equally but rarely too much, and if anyone suffered its because he asked for it. That alone created a comeradery amoungst the first years and we never did anything against each other because of anything as trivial as race.

Granted the final initiation was harsh but in retrospect it was just a type of controlled gauntlet, bad but not as bad as advertised and you get over it quickly, hell I got over it the very same night. That alone gave the first years who decided to brave it, myself included, a amount of self respect.
Of course we were never forced to do anything exessive, if something like that was ever required there were allways more than enough volunteers.:D

And lastly the initiation traditions of the hostel also acted as a buffer against the chaos that normally happens when a youth lives outside his parent's house for the first time, that alone proves its usefullness. Hell before I stayed at the hostel I was a snot nosed brat from a small town, if not for the structure and character building enviroment I would have never become so comfortable with city life so easely in such a safe manner.

No my friend, if you dont like initiation u were obviously subjected to either a bad initiation or you have the guts of a worm
 
Morgoth:

What you fail or just dont want to understand is that initiation has some greatly positive effects if implemented correctly but only if it is done at tertiary education level. I was at hostel back when it was still allowed to initiate first years, and one thing I saw is is that because of the initiation hostel had no racial problems whatsoever.

It's a multi-racial hostel, all first years were treated equally, everyone suffered equally but rarely too much, and if anyone suffered its because he asked for it. That alone created a comeradery amoungst the first years and we never did anything against each other because of anything as trivial as race.

Granted the final initiation was harsh but in retrospect it was just a type of controlled gauntlet, bad but not as bad as advertised and you get over it quickly, hell I got over it the very same night. That alone gave the first years who decided to brave it, myself included, a amount of self respect.
Of course we were never forced to do anything exessive, if something like that was ever required there were allways more than enough volunteers.:D

And lastly the initiation traditions of the hostel also acted as a buffer against the chaos that normally happens when a youth lives outside his parent's house for the first time, that alone proves its usefullness. Hell before I stayed at the hostel I was a snot nosed brat from a small town, if not for the structure and character building enviroment I would have never become so comfortable with city life so easely in such a safe manner.

No my friend, if you dont like initiation u were obviously subjected to either a bad initiation or you have the guts of a worm

sorry but I don't buy "character building" , making people feel worthless or forcing some kind of task on them wont bring my character up doesn't matter how positive you think your initiation is,

As for me being subjected to "bad" initiation, yes and no, I never saw the point of it, even when I could enforce it on others I refused to do or participate in these kind of orientation bull****, sorry but someone trying to use my time to do either his bidding or prove that he is some kind of master above master and still think it is right, lacks some brain cells. I didn't see why I should listen to someone who is just 4 years older then me, hell my brother is that much older and he sure as hell wasn't a **** to me back then why was these guys? I have heard of these " bonding" that form, sure that is a good thing, then again I made good bonds without initiation, I didn't try to be a rebel about the whole school system but I ended up being one so badly that I was called in and asked why I did not do my part

I told the prefects in charge of the initiation the the same thing I just told you, that it is bull**** and I refuse to do their bidding. He tried to convince me about "bonding through it" , making life long friends and some crappy christian values, that he tried to bind to it, and if I remember it right " volk, kerk en vaderland" - that is where I lost some of my respect for the so called " Afrikaner Christian society" and If i am a outsider due to it then so be it. I have never supported this crap , and I don't see the reason why I should enforce it on others - they sure as hell ain't worth my time. I am glad you mention "small town" because that is where it "might" fit in,
 
sorry but I don't buy "character building" , making people feel worthless or forcing some kind of task on them wont bring my character up doesn't matter how positive you think your initiation is,

As for me being subjected to "bad" initiation, yes and no, I never saw the point of it, even when I could enforce it on others I refused to do or participate in these kind of orientation bull****, sorry but someone trying to use my time to do either his bidding or prove that he is some kind of master above master and still think it is right, lacks some brain cells. I didn't see why I should listen to someone who is just 4 years older then me, hell my brother is that much older and he sure as hell wasn't a **** to me back then why was these guys? I have heard of these " bonding" that form, sure that is a good thing, then again I made good bonds without initiation, I didn't try to be a rebel about the whole school system but I ended up being one so badly that I was called in and asked why I did not do my part

I told the prefects in charge of the initiation the the same thing I just told you, that it is bull**** and I refuse to do their bidding. He tried to convince me about "bonding through it" , making life long friends and some crappy christian values, that he tried to bind to it, and if I remember it right " volk, kerk en vaderland" - that is where I lost some of my respect for the so called " Afrikaner Christian society" and If i am a outsider due to it then so be it. I have never supported this crap , and I don't see the reason why I should enforce it on others - they sure as hell ain't worth my time. I am glad you mention "small town" because that is where it "might" fit in,


I whole-heartedly agree with this post. I didn't feel any "bonding" moments through initiation and I certainly hated the matrics who were the ringleaders in the initiation ritual - I certainly didn't respect them more for making me doing stupid stuff. In fact the matrics I most respected were the ones who left me alone and just let me get on with life and treated me as a person and not as some "infestation" into society.

When I was in matric, I didn't abuse the new-boys because initiation is for all the sheep in society and the losers who have achieved nothing at school. Why is initiation so persistent in South African society when other countries simply don't have it? It's because mostly of these Afrikaner rugby types who think rugby is life etc...that is the main problem.
 
I went through initiation and I didn't have a problem with it. In fact it was amusing to see some of the arrogant arseholes in my grade get brought down to size. Remember in grade 7 these kids are top of pile in primary school and tend to develop rather high opinions of themselves. Nothing like a dose of initiation when they arrive at high school to cure them of their ailment lol :D
 
I went through initiation and I didn't have a problem with it. In fact it was amusing to see some of the arrogant arseholes in my grade get brought down to size. Remember in grade 7 these kids are top of pile in primary school and tend to develop rather high opinions of themselves. Nothing like a dose of initiation when they arrive at high school to cure them of their ailment lol :D

They just wait until Grade 12 to become arrogant again :p...it's in university where their arrogance falls apart because they at last realise, no-one *really* cares about their sporting achievements and they do not receive any special privilege. No surprise that many of these people drop-out at university then :o
 
Like i said, it fits in better at tertiary education level where for obvious reasons its more needed. Of course some people take that as lisence for extreme behaviour, but we were never forced to do anything, the only reason those of us went through the final initiation was because of the respect we gained from the seniors and the self respect we got.
And FYI no one ever made us feel worthless, those seniors that tried were put down by the more sane ones.
 
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I went through initiation and I didn't have a problem with it. In fact it was amusing to see some of the arrogant arseholes in my grade get brought down to size. Remember in grade 7 these kids are top of pile in primary school and tend to develop rather high opinions of themselves. Nothing like a dose of initiation when they arrive at high school to cure them of their ailment lol :D


Yes, an apparent flaw in the average South African personality needs to be "initiated" to rectify it. How pathetic.

Maybe you need boot camps to initiate the pricks that come out of varsity thinking they're the top of the pile then? Or those that think likewise when they've gotten that bike or SUV?

You know, I think some of the participants in this very internet forum, need to be initiated, applying that mentality. A person can join this forum, and unlike any forum back home, right from the start, you are expected to quietly endure attacks from high post count members and those that seem to think they are God's gift to the IT industry. Please man, get over yourselves FFS. This is an internet forum, by every account, this is not MyBroadband High.
 
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