"Home Uncapped" accounts: What do you consider excessive usage?

[Totempole]

This is a question that has been asked a million times, but never answered and has almost always been skirted around by ISPs.

With the recent article about ISPs complaining that consumers are purchasing unsuitable accounts, and consuming large amounts of data, the question has once again been raised:

How much is too much?

If a client purchases a home/standard uncapped account with xMB/s line speed, how much use can he/she make of the account before they become a liability to said ISP?

With the exception of MWEB, afaik no other ISP has given an accurate guideline as to what they consider to be excessive usage on a Home based uncapped account for any given line speed.

ISPs are very quick to skirt around the issue by using statements like, "If there's capacity available...", "If the network is busy", "Schedule your Downloads...", "Protocol Prioritisation...", "Exchange Congestion", "Best effort service..." etc.

But how many of these ISP's have actually stated what they consider excessive in terms of data consumption on Home/Standard uncapped accounts at a specific price point?

You get all kinds of blanket statements from ISP's, but none of them are willing to provide a usage guideline as a rule of thumb, with the exception of MWEB.

Are there any ISP's on the forum who would care to provide us with some insights and opinions on what you would consider excessive in terms of usage on your Home/Standard Uncapped accounts at any given line speed?

I would also like to hear from other forum members as to what they would consider the line between acceptable and excessive usage is on any particular ADSL line speed.

* Please note, that this is not a rant, just curiosity. I for one am happy with the service I'm getting right now, but would like to hear the opinions of ISPs other users as to the service level Home Uncapped clients should expect. Though I suspect most ISPs would either avoid this topic altogether or fail to provide any definitive answers

 

[Chevron]

Remember that this is a tech forum. Those home uncapped accounts aren't priced for our type of usage.

So any type of survey here will be heavily skewed.

 

[Totempole]

Remember that this is a tech forum. Those home uncapped accounts aren't priced for our type of usage.

So any type of survey here will be heavily skewed.

True, but if the ISPs won't speak for themselves, their clients will have to speak for them.

 

[Chevron]

True, but if the ISPs won't speak for themselves, their clients will have to speak for them.

Well personally I think the usage numbers that MWEB use for their Premium accounts are about right.

You will get people that fight with me, but 100GBs per MB/s of line speed is a good starting point.

 

[Totempole]

Well personally I think the usage numbers that MWEB use for their Premium accounts are about right.

You will get people that fight with me, but 100GBs per MB/s of line speed is a good starting point.

I tend to agree with your above statement... So I've added the following:

As far as what is considered excessive... be reasonable.

Take a 2Mb uncapped account for R200. Obviously 300GBs pm is far beyond excessive, but I'd say 60GBs is a bit conservative if you consider that there would be cheaper capped options available to you that would offer the same or more data.

 

[MickeyD]

You will get people that fight with me, but 100GBs per MB/s of line speed is a good starting point.

I'd go with this as well.

 

[Chevron]

As far as what is considered excessive... be reasonable.

Take a 2Mb uncapped account for R200. Obviously 300GBs pm is far beyond excessive, but I'd say 60GBs is a bit conservative if you consider that there would be cheaper capped options available to you that would offer the same or more data.

Well the accounts need to be priced accordingly obviously. That's why MWEB's standard accounts are cheaper, but have much lower thresholds.

 

[Sinbad]

They won't publish their numbers because they're scared people will use them as targets.

 

[HavocXphere]

If a client purchases a home/standard uncapped account with xMB/s line speed, how much use can he/she make of the account before they become a liability to said ISP?

no other ISP has given an accurate guideline as to what they consider to be excessive usage

You've got it all back to front. ISPs don't manage gigs they are managing real time supply vs demand. And crucially they need to buy enough capacity to cover peak demand.

20 gigs of during peak will "hurt" the ISP way more than 100 gigs at midnight. So what does the ISP tell you is "excessive"? Above 20 gigs or above 100? Neither answer is "correct" so they tell it like it is:

ISPs are very quick to skirt around the issue by using statements like, "If there's capacity available...", "If the network is busy", "Schedule your Downloads...", "Protocol Prioritisation...", "Exchange Congestion", "Best effort service..." etc.

The systems employed really do dynamically adjust things in real time and they do need to dynamically manage supply/demand, so all those general answers aren't because ISP are full of sht - its just the best truthful answer they can give.

Thats not to say ISPs aren't full of it...some of them definitely are...but others are genuinely trying to do the right thing despite tricky conditions. And to be honest this is a case of "wrong question".

 

[TEXTILE GUY]

Well, I think you need to distinguish between a standard or home type account and a gold or business type account.

AFIK, business accounts dont really bug ISPs in terms of limits - but you pay more.

Certainly, on my account I have never had an issue (business).

I have to agree with Chevron on this one.

 

[MickZA]

Dunno the answer but I've always taken advantage of improvements in ADSL line & account pricing by upgrading instead of putting the savings in my pocket.

Currently on TI 10MB uncapped and moved about 480GB last month (a heavy month due to creating a favourable ration on TVChaos), no problems with the account and finished at about 60% on TI Tracker. I've never been throttled on any TI Uncapped account but use scheduling & shaping on my router (IPCop) to assure performance.

Only problem I've had with uncapped was when axxess moved from IS to MTN, fortunately I was using TI capped during business hours at the time but it forced me to TI 2MB uncapped within a month for my after hours torrents.

 

[Chevron]

The systems employed really do dynamically adjust things in real time and they do need to dynamically manage supply/demand, so all those general answers aren't because ISP are full of sht - its just the best truthful answer they can give.

Thats not to say ISPs aren't full of it...some of them definitely are...but others are genuinely trying to do the right thing despite tricky conditions. And to be honest this is a case of "wrong question".

Not sure I agree with this. On ISPs that claim this there's always a night and day difference between 16:59 and 17:01.

Also the systems shape just as much even on public holidays.

If they were truly dynamic neither of those two things would be happening.

 

[rrh]

One should also take into account that a home account is designed - in the main - for those that will be at work during the day.

OTOH one cannot ignore those that - for various reasons - do not work during the day.

So, in addition to the figure mentioned above (100GBs per MB/s of line speed), one should possibly add a bandwidth usage of 20% during the day (i.e. 07h00 - 18h00) with 80% during the evenings.

 

[rrh]

Not sure I agree with this. On ISPs that claim this there's always a night and day difference between 16:59 and 17:01.

Also the systems shape just as much even on public holidays.

If they were truly dynamic neither of those two things would be happening.

+5

 

[MickZA]

So, in addition to the figure mentioned above (100GBs per MB/s of line speed), one should possibly add a bandwidth usage of 20% during the day (i.e. 07h00 - 18h00) with 80% during the evenings.

+1

... actually I'm considerate of the guys trying to stream & game in the evenings and only move to 80% between 00:00 and 07:00 (thanks for the extra hour TI).

 

[Necuno]

How much is too much?

Anything excepting streaming 24.7 at 1080.

Streams must flow!

 

[HavocXphere]

Chev - short answer is its not true dynamic 24/7, only when it matters. Long answer:

Not sure I agree with this. On ISPs that claim this there's always a night and day difference between 16:59 and 17:01.

Solid arguments. I've felt that effect you describe too (we're probably thinking of the same ISP ). It doesn't change what I said though - bear with me & I'll explain.

The dynamic system only really bites during peak. The rest of the time there is enough capacity anyway so whether you make it unshaped or dynamically shaped the outcome is close to the same thing. Thats why you've got a certain ISP announcing "unshaped for everyone" weekends etc.

As for your 17h00 effect - the shaping systems are by default set up to be aggressive. Both to protect the premium "unshaped"/Biz customers and to allow for some safety margin (bad things happen if you run network systems at 100%...95% and things magically improve). After 17h00 its safe to switch off / scale down the aggressive shaping.

Think of it this way: You've got a 5 lane highway with a lane reserved for the blue light brigade [ aka biz customers ]. You have to keep that lane reserved for them (its law ). However you know that they never drive after 17h00. So you set up a manual timer that changes the signs so that everyone can drive in the blue light lane after 17h00. This manual timer mechanism isn't very clever/dynamic so you just set it to 17h00 and call it a day. End result is that at 17h00...poff...suddenly there is an extra lane. Same thing with public holidays...its just a simplistic timing mechanism on the ISP side. (maybe you should go rage at them for that Chev...public holiday internet is fail)

Unrelated to Chev's post - context for all:

The supply and demand thing is very real, regardless of what colour the bytes are. Ignore shaping for a second. Think of Eskom. They can't build enough power stations to cover the *average* demand, they need enough to cover *peak*. So if you use more power during off-peak...nobody really cares...they just run the plants a bit longer. If you use more during peak then they physically need to go build more plants. Thats why peak is such a big deal. Same with ISPs...except they buy a bigger pipe instead of building plants.

 

[MickeyD]

Agree with HX...

Add to that the fact that for ADSL there is a "SANRAL" that has to ensure that the 5 lane highway is always in a very good condition!

 

[MacAfrican]

It's not too different from electricity.

Council pays Eskom on time of use, so 8am tomorrow morning costs them 220c/kwh and you 260c/kwh. 10pm tomorrow night costs them 37c/kwh and you 41c/kwh

That is if you as consumer are on Time of Use tariff. If not, you prob just always pay 115c/kwh and council takes the risks.

It would be simple enough to do same on data. Peak, standard, offpeak Gb. 8am 1gb = 4 units, 2am 1gb = 0.3 units. Sign me up unthrottled unshaped, price depends on how many units I want.

This is the 21st century, how hard can it be?

But to poll, I'd be dead happy with even 25gb/mbps allowance. I actually get 5 down and with no pirate crap 125 w'be fine

 

[HavocXphere]

One should also take into account that a home account is designed - in the main - for those that will be at work during the day.

Accounts are driven by external factors & pressures on the ISP...they are not designed for a specific use.

Think of those "midnight" accounts/promotions. They don't exist because the ISP think you're a vampire that prefers browsing at 2AM....that just happens to be when the capacity is available.

Obviously where those factors overlap with usual customer behavior they'll market it as such. (e.g. Corporate guy returning "home" at 17h00 and using his "home" internet account)