How bad is Sinotec actually?

[Tim182]

Sheesh, Tim... why so angry?

Much of what you say makes sense, but I'd moderate it slightly...

From back when I bought mine, my research revealed that the Sinotec wasn't nearly as horrid as brand-sluts loved to claim. The panels where the same as found in many branded sets (if I recall, one of the bigger global producers of LCD panels was a shareholder), the scaling engine was a Faroudja - regarded as the best in the business back then, the construction was subjectively better than many LGs and Samsungs with comparable features, and I had every conceivable type of input available - multiple instances of some. And, most importantly, it cost a fraction of any other 42" set back then.

The single time the TV acted up, their after-sales service was also exemplary.

I don't think I'd buy a Sinotec today - better products can be had for not much more money - but they certainly made it possible for me to get a biiiiiiiiiiiig screen television years before I'd otherwise have been able to. As an aside, they're branded Sinotec here because Prima Toys came a few decades before. Of the 'budget' brands, it's probably still the best option - 'budget' just isn't such a huge consideration any more.

The anger comes from experience. Some friends of mine bought Sinotecs without thinking and now really regret their decision, they all regret not having spent a little more and having wasted their money (and these are their words).

Sure, its one of the better budget brands and for a guesthouse or shop the TVs are well sufficient but that's where it ends.

 

[Ancalagon]

LN40D550 no question. Sinotecs have cheap panels, cheap engines, high input lag, flashlighting, low response times, few settings.

A lot of people talk about their experiences and how they put their R0.05c next to a Sony and they looked the same. Don't buy their crap, they're most likely just trying to make themselves feel better about their bad purchase. True, the panel in those cheap brands aren't as bad as they used to be and a still image may actually look almost as good as a good brand but that's where it ends.

Think about it. Sinotecs are produced in China by a huge budget manufactuer. Sinotec specifically only exists in South Africa, elsewhere these TVs are marketed as PRIMA or under some other name. So firstly do yourself a favour and read some reviews about PRIMA TVs... If you're still keen think about the following: Samsung/Sony/LG etc sell millions of each respective TV model each year. The more you produce, the lower your production costs, its called economics of scale. This allows the big brands to acquire good quality input materials at low prices. The result: a better quality TV at a price which a small manufacturer could never match.

Now how many TVs do you think Sinotec sells compared to the big brand? A tenth? A 100th, maybe less. In order to be competitive budget brands have to undercut the premium brands. How do they do it: cheap inputs and less functions. The result: much less quality for a smaller price. If you compare the value for money however, nothing will beat your premium brand TV. Even their entry level models use quality inputs. Some people realise this so brands like Sinotec need to give the consumer further incentives to buy their TVs; that's where the 5 year warrenty comes in.

Next consider the money premium brands spend on and have available for R&D. Premium brands have an experience in producing TVs that budget brands will never be able to match. All the budget brand does is copy the big names. Copying, however, will only get you so far.

There are only a few LCD panel producers in the world, and at least one of the big ones is Chinese. In other words, Sinotec just buy their panels from another producer. Those same panels might well be used in, say, an LG TV set. There wont be much difference in the panels.

As you say, its economies of scale. Hence why the panel producers will sell panels to all and sundry.

There will be a difference in the user interface and processing, as well as inputs. But I dont consider those differences to be worth the cost.

 

[Jonno2343]

Sheesh, Tim... why so angry?

Much of what you say makes sense, but I'd moderate it slightly...

From back when I bought mine, my research revealed that the Sinotec wasn't nearly as horrid as brand-sluts loved to claim. The panels where the same as found in many branded sets (if I recall, one of the bigger global producers of LCD panels was a shareholder), the scaling engine was a Faroudja - regarded as the best in the business back then, the construction was subjectively better than many LGs and Samsungs with comparable features, and I had every conceivable type of input available - multiple instances of some. And, most importantly, it cost a fraction of any other 42" set back then.

The single time the TV acted up, their after-sales service was also exemplary.

I don't think I'd buy a Sinotec today - better products can be had for not much more money - but they certainly made it possible for me to get a biiiiiiiiiiiig screen television years before I'd otherwise have been able to. As an aside, they're branded Sinotec here because Prima Toys came a few decades before. Of the 'budget' brands, it's probably still the best option - 'budget' just isn't such a huge consideration any more.

With that, I'd just like to ask again. Is it better to have a 40" Samsung (latest and greatest model) or a 47" Sinotec for basically the same amount?
Neither of these are LED or 3D and so I'm sure they'll be upgraded in the next 2-3 years. I trust Samsung a whole lot more (prev 32" by them and Blu-ray all in one job - both excellent).

 

[HapticSimian]

The anger comes from experience. Some friends of mine bought Sinotecs without thinking and now really regret their decision, they all regret not having spent a little more and having wasted their money (and these are their words).

Sure, its one of the better budget brands and for a guesthouse or shop the TVs are well sufficient but that's where it ends.

Agreed. You just made it sound as if they fill their panels with the tears of baby foxes. Being Chinese, I suppose they might...

 

[Jonno2343]

Ebay or Amazon, around $50. They'll generally rip you off in local stores. If you find it for less in SA please let me know as well. The TV has a LAN port though so you can connect it via LAN cable to your Wifi Router. So if you don't mind that extra cable and have your TV close to the router there is no point buying it.

Ok, thanks. Yeah, already have LAN cable there for Atom 'HTPC' and Home Server, just need to get a Gigabit switch there then.

 

[HapticSimian]

With that, I'd just like to ask again. Is it better to have a 40" Samsung (latest and greatest model) or a 47" Sinotec for basically the same amount?
Neither of these are LED or 3D and so I'm sure they'll be upgraded in the next 2-3 years. I trust Samsung a whole lot more (prev 32" by them and Blu-ray all in one job - both excellent).

Like I said, I don't think I'd buy a Sinotec today. 40" is still rather substantial - I'd hazard 47" might be too big for many applications.

Oh, and don't fall for the LED-malarkey; they're still boggo-standard LCDs, just backlit differently. Some more FUD marketing right there.

 

[Tim182]

There are only a few LCD panel producers in the world, and at least one of the big ones is Chinese. In other words, Sinotec just buy their panels from another producer. Those same panels might well be used in, say, an LG TV set. There wont be much difference in the panels.

As you say, its economies of scale. Hence why the panel producers will sell panels to all and sundry.
There will be a difference in the user interface and processing, as well as inputs. But I dont consider those differences to be worth the cost.

Just because two panels come out of the same factory does not mean they are equally good. I have said this before, the panel makers produce many different panels with different properties. Sinotec will buy the cheapest bunch. The panel you get in a premium brand will be of higher quality. But a TV's quality does not just depend on the panel, the picture engine is equally important, especially if the TV has to upscale the source. The engine in a Sinotec is miles behind a premium brand.

 

[badtrev]

I used to have a Sinotec 32 inch HD ready screen, which played PS3 and HD content brilliantly, but this was purchased in 2007 - compared to other brands at that time the Sinotec was pretty awesome, however when you look at the picture quality of the current Sinotec models, they don't compare to Sony, Samsung, etc.

Also there is a Sony 40inch LCD for R5999 at game at the moment not sure of the model. But the Makro special on the Samsung D550 is a good buy as I paid the same price for the 530 less than 2 months ago.

 

[Tim182]

With that, I'd just like to ask again. Is it better to have a 40" Samsung (latest and greatest model) or a 47" Sinotec for basically the same amount?
Neither of these are LED or 3D and so I'm sure they'll be upgraded in the next 2-3 years. I trust Samsung a whole lot more (prev 32" by them and Blu-ray all in one job - both excellent).

Samsung is better. Unless you don't care about quality.

Especially if you have it hooked up to a media center PC. This model supports an excellent PC input mode which results in very accurate colours and basically no input lag.

 

[mcryan]

My almost 3-year old Sinotec 42" is still chugging along merrily, but their later panels seemed less of a good proposition from what I read over the years... much of it on here, it must be said.

My eyes do water when I think back to what I paid for it, and what I could get for the same money today...

+1! Mine is also a good 2 to 3 years old now and runs perfectly.

That being said I would go with a name brand next time (Sony, Samsung, LG). They're just better overall and stand to lose a lot more than a company like Sinotech if they're unit's come out faulty and problematic. And if I were in your shoes I would pick the Samsung, even though I have NO problems with my Sinotech.

 

[Ancalagon]

Just because two panels come out of the same factory does not mean they are equally good. I have said this before, the panel makers produce many different panels with different properties. Sinotec will buy the cheapest bunch. The panel you get in a premium brand will be of higher quality. But a TV's quality does not just depend on the panel, the picture engine is equally important, especially if the TV has to upscale the source. The engine in a Sinotec is miles behind a premium brand.

Proof? I really doubt a factory would produce one cheap and one expensive panel. How would they differ? What technical characteristics would differ? Resolution the same, technology the same, bit depth the same - how would they be different? You dont know what you are talking about.

Just admit you are a brand nut with no justification for your love of Samsung.

 

[4cer]

Proof? I really doubt a factory would produce one cheap and one expensive panel. How would they differ? What technical characteristics would differ? Resolution the same, technology the same, bit depth the same - how would they be different? You dont know what you are talking about.

Just admit you are a brand nut with no justification for your love of Samsung.

so you are saying that when i buy a BMW, i should rather just get the 320i, rather than the M3 ? they are made in the same factory so they must be the same! My dads going to be well p!ssed when he finds out his 330i has the same engine as the 320i...

 

[luxe]

Ancalagon:

Please see this site for LCD production, and the VARIOUS differences in production methods and materials used.

Please also take the time to see the graph in this white paper on page 2, for a detailed depiction of different technologies in the panels you believe to all be exactly the same.

 

[Tim182]

Proof? I really doubt a factory would produce one cheap and one expensive panel. How would they differ? What technical characteristics would differ? Resolution the same, technology the same, bit depth the same - how would they be different? You dont know what you are talking about.

Just admit you are a brand nut with no justification for your love of Samsung.

For proof take any manufacturer which a wide model range, Sony, Samsung, LG, doesn't matter. Lets stick with Samsung for the sake of it. Take a series 4,5,6 and 7/8/9 panel. You will see that a 4 series uses different panels to 5 series which often uses the same panels as the 6 series. Again 7, 8 and 9 use the same or similar panels but different to lower series. Many of these panels come from the same manufacturer, yet they vastly differ in quality.

The technology in the panels is not the same. They differ in backlight technology, in their matrix technology, contrast, brightness, and other factors. They also have different quality controls in place. They may differ in their ability to handle varying refresh rates and have different blacks. A factory doesn't just spin out one type of display, of course they differ.

I don't love Samsung. IMO, they just offer great value for money. But picture quality on Sony's is better. Panasonic is best but unfortunately these TVs are unaffordable. I would never go as far as saying that one of the premium brands is better than the other. But I can guarentee you that they are all better than Sinotec.

 

[Polymathic]

and that led you to the conclusion they stopped selling Sinotec - wow your powers of deductive reasoning are astonishing :wtf:
did you consider they no longer stocked the particular model he brought back and he didnt want another sinotec so they gave him his money back or more likely when you take omething back to game (Makro to from past experiance) instead of swaping the product, they give you a cashback voucher so you can decide if you want to get the same product or something else or even your money back.

any way m going off topic, i have a 37 'sinotec and its ok for the price, i do notice a bit of bluring if you look at the screen from an angle at a bit of a distance

Actually no that what the sales person told my uncle. I think I should see if they still sell Sinotec TVs in Game at the Galleria Mall

 

[Jonno2343]

I don't love Samsung. IMO, they just offer great value for money. But picture quality on Sony's is better. Panasonic is best but unfortunately these TVs are unaffordable. I would never go as far as saying that one of the premium brands is better than the other. But I can guarentee you that they are all better than Sinotec.

In that case, is it better to get the 40" for R5999 at Game? http://www.game.co.za/RapidCat/game/rsa/pages/page-6.jpg
In other words, is it better to spend R1000 more than the R5000 I already shouldn't be spending?
Hard to see what model it is. - seems to be the 40ex400 http://www.sony.co.za/product/kdl-40ex400

 

[Ancalagon]

so you are saying that when i buy a BMW, i should rather just get the 320i, rather than the M3 ? they are made in the same factory so they must be the same! My dads going to be well p!ssed when he finds out his 330i has the same engine as the 320i...

No, its more like F1, where Cosworth engines are used by more than one manufacturer. What Tim et al are saying is that even though everyone is using the same engine, Mercedes has a better Cosworth engine than say Lotus (if Merc even use a Cosworth engine, you get the idea though).

Ancalagon:

Please see this site for LCD production, and the VARIOUS differences in production methods and materials used.

Please also take the time to see the graph in this white paper on page 2, for a detailed depiction of different technologies in the panels you believe to all be exactly the same.

I dont see anything there about different methods used by different manufacturers. And remember, in most cases these are not even different manufacturers, this is say Chimei electronics or LG producing panels to be used by Samsung, Phillips and Acer. I once owned an LG that actually could have its panel made by any of 3 different manufacturers. The only way to be sure was to examine the serial number. How then do you guarantee that my LG screen contained a higher quality panel than a Sinotec screen would?

For proof take any manufacturer which a wide model range, Sony, Samsung, LG, doesn't matter. Lets stick with Samsung for the sake of it. Take a series 4,5,6 and 7/8/9 panel. You will see that a 4 series uses different panels to 5 series which often uses the same panels as the 6 series. Again 7, 8 and 9 use the same or similar panels but different to lower series. Many of these panels come from the same manufacturer, yet they vastly differ in quality.

Same manufacturer, irrelevant. I know series 4 and 5 use different panels, my point is that the same panel used for a series 5 will also (and I guarantee this) be used in another TV set. Without doubt. How then is that TV set lower quality? Yes, it may have less inputs, but in terms of actual picture reproduction, its identical.

The technology in the panels is not the same. They differ in backlight technology, in their matrix technology, contrast, brightness, and other factors. They also have different quality controls in place. They may differ in their ability to handle varying refresh rates and have different blacks. A factory doesn't just spin out one type of display, of course they differ.

You're referring to TN, IPS, panels etc. Yes, they can differ, but to find a TV made with anything other than a TN panel is exceedingly rare. Hence, they dont differ by as much as you think. Backlights are not part of panels - the end manufacturer, ie sinotec, would add them. Yes, they could be an area in which quality is sacrificed.

Black levels depend upon the panel and the backlight, nothing else. Since we know the panels used by the manufacturers are largely identical, only the backlight really matters.

I don't love Samsung. IMO, they just offer great value for money. But picture quality on Sony's is better. Panasonic is best but unfortunately these TVs are unaffordable. I would never go as far as saying that one of the premium brands is better than the other. But I can guarentee you that they are all better than Sinotec.

I really doubt you would be able to tell the difference between a cheaper brand TV and a more expensive one, provided both were correctly calibrated and playing the same video source. Or at least, you could tell the difference, but you wouldnt necessarily pick the brand name as better.

 

[Tim182]

In that case, is it better to get the 40" for R5999 at Game? http://www.game.co.za/RapidCat/game/rsa/pages/page-6.jpg
In other words, is it better to spend R1000 more than the R5000 I already shouldn't be spending?
Hard to see what model it is. - seems to be the 40ex400 http://www.sony.co.za/product/kdl-40ex400

Not worth it in my opinion. The quality is almost identical IMO. A friend of mine as a 40EX, although about a year old. The EX is not a 100Hz TV either so not much benefit there either. Also that model doesn't support many media formats. Maybe someone has more experience with that particular TV and can give you concrete feedback

 

[Tim182]

I dont see anything there about different methods used by different manufacturers. And remember, in most cases these are not even different manufacturers, this is say Chimei electronics or LG producing panels to be used by Samsung, Phillips and Acer. I once owned an LG that actually could have its panel made by any of 3 different manufacturers. The only way to be sure was to examine the serial number. How then do you guarantee that my LG screen contained a higher quality panel than a Sinotec screen would?

Because LG has higher quality controls in place.

Same manufacturer, irrelevant. I know series 4 and 5 use different panels, my point is that the same panel used for a series 5 will also (and I guarantee this) be used in another TV set. Without doubt. How then is that TV set lower quality? Yes, it may have less inputs, but in terms of actual picture reproduction, its identical.

Inputs don't matter here. In fact Sinotecs generally have more inputs. I am saying that Samsung uses different panels across their ranges which are produced by the same manufacturers in the same factories. One and the same guys produce a low end, mid range and high end panels. Just because Sinotecs buys their panels from the same guys as some of the big names does not mean that they buy the same quality panel.


Tell us, what kind of TV do you own...

 

[isie]

Actually no that what the sales person told my uncle. I think I should see if they still sell Sinotec TVs in Game at the Galleria Mall

then my apologies - salesman should tied to a tree and shot , 50 bucks says they will still have Sinotec in stock. Sinotec and Logic are the 'speciality' brands at Game.
speaking of Logic isnt bad for the chepos too -