How does this work Mweb and FNB

[TSpeed]

Have an mweb talk account and Fnb connect account, made a call from fnb to mweb which is a voip call and got charged for it, did the same from mweb to fnb connect, and same result, got charged. How does this
work as the calls i made were both internet calls. Anybody please explain why are they charging for internet calls.

 

[sidai]

Have an mweb talk account and Fnb connect account, made a call from fnb to mweb which is a voip call and got charged for it, did the same from mweb to fnb connect, and same result, got charged. How does this
work as the calls i made were both internet calls. Anybody please explain why are they charging for internet calls.

Probably best if you mail them and ask.
But my guess would be they view of "on-net" calls is in their own number range (Which sucks, I know)

Eg. 087 575 XXXX to 087 575 XXXX if free, but 087 498 XXXX to 087 575 XXXX is not free...

 

[TheGuy]

Have an mweb talk account and Fnb connect account, made a call from fnb to mweb which is a voip call and got charged for it, did the same from mweb to fnb connect, and same result, got charged. How does this
work as the calls i made were both internet calls. Anybody please explain why are they charging for internet calls.

Because it's different providers so you are actually making ofnet calls. Which means the providers have to pay interconnect fees.

 

[TSpeed]

Hi sidai, agree with you, and this defeats the purpose of free voip calling. I was using my own cap and they charge me for the call.

 

[encrypted]

They are not "internet" calls. They are calls, FNB routes the call to Mweb via its VOIP PABX, whether you used mweb voip or an mweb landline is beyond the scope, you called off the FNB Phone network.

IF you used FNB connect in both places it would have been free, and I am assuming the same for Mweb<>Mweb.

 

[TSpeed]

encrypted, if you say they route the call through telkom pstn, then i will agree with you that it is not a internet call. otherwise this stays an internet call. the final communication between the 2 are directly to each other P2P through udp on the internet. This is exactly the same as 2 compamies running a asterix pabx on each site, and if configured correctly, will route the call through internet.
Personally i think it is just another way of making money and using terms such as "termination" and "offnet" to charge the average user.

 

[encrypted]

So the costs associated with creating and running a VOIP network should be recovered on a few Telkom calls ?


Did you know when you SMS MTN from Vodacom, MTN don't pay Vodacom a single cent, but charge the user 80c.
That should be free. It's a tiny data packet, but they justify (some of the) the cost since it takes staff and equipment to run the service.

IF you don't want to pay then http://www.skype.com

 

[Chevron]

So the costs associated with creating and running a VOIP network should be recovered on a few Telkom calls ?


Did you know when you SMS MTN from Vodacom, MTN don't pay Vodacom a single cent, but charge the user 80c.
That should be free. It's a tiny data packet, but they justify (some of the) the cost since it takes staff and equipment to run the service.

IF you don't want to pay then http://www.skype.com

+1

Running a VOIP network isn't free. Setting up those connection agreements isn't free either.

 

[Sinbad]

encrypted, if you say they route the call through telkom pstn, then i will agree with you that it is not a internet call. otherwise this stays an internet call. the final communication between the 2 are directly to each other P2P through udp on the internet. This is exactly the same as 2 compamies running a asterix pabx on each site, and if configured correctly, will route the call through internet.
Personally i think it is just another way of making money and using terms such as "termination" and "offnet" to charge the average user.

Are you sure it's a direct p2p connection between the two phones? My suspicion is that there's a PSTN breakout in the middle there.

 

[TSpeed]

Thanks Sinbad, that is what i am trying to find out, if there is a PSTN inbetween the calls, then i understand the charges.

 

[TSpeed]

Qwikslver, i am running a Free Voip service and it not costing me a cent, i just make sure my internet is connected and pc's are on. The software is 100% self sustaining and does'nt require any maintenance. Sip accounts can be created via internet.

 

[Sinbad]

Qwikslver, i am running a Free Voip service and it not costing me a cent, i just make sure my internet is connected and pc's are on. The software is 100% self sustaining and does'nt require any maintenance. Sip accounts can be created via internet.

There's a difference between running a small free voip service, and running a large infrastructure with multiple public breakouts, people paying for the service and thus expecting some specified level of service etc. Consider bandwidth for instance... If you had 1000 subscribers and they all called at once, your adsl line might not cope. Especially if you are breaking the calls out to PSTN so there is no p2p in play...

 

[Dev1]

It's meant to be that FNB connect to FNB connect calls are free only, any other provider you call from FNB connect means you will be charged!

 

[WhichVoIP]

Exactly! Each VoIP Provider charges other VoIP Providers to Terminate Calls on their Network, in the same way that the MTN, Vodacom and Cell C charges Telkom to Terminate calls on these networks. There is a cost to running Infrastructure and Capacity that is required to accommodate for these Transits. If there was no interconnect, there would be no way of a Provider making money on Inbound calls which uses their Infrastructure and Interconnects - which they pay for, if even over IP.

 

[mo_to]

I am not sure where the notion of
'VoIP is FREE' comes from, but one should remember that VoIP is merely a TECHNOLOGY which is replacing PSTN.

Like how there are PSTN Exchanges, SS7's and various other call termination facilities, VoIP also requires exchanges which we call Point of Interconnect Locations (POILs).
These POILs costs hundreds of thousands of US Dollars to establish and much money to maintain.

When one providers POIL sends a call to another providers POIL, the receiving provider charges a fee called Inter-connect fee. This small ICASA regulated fee barely covers various expenditure such as port fees, fibre lines, NOC maintenance, and a long list of expenses to run a network.

In the past, providers attracted customers to join their network by providing free on-net calls, but as they grow, this service becomes expensive to maintain. Carriers now charge a small fee for their on-net calls as it does cost money to run and maintain this network. In South Africa, it costs at least 6X more than Europe.
Providers also pay ICASA a 1.5% fee from any profit realised by rendering licenced services.

As VoIP becomes the mainstream technology for telecom carriers, 'FREE VoIP' will be something of the past.

Now you CAN run VoIP technology over a private network. Some phones such as SNOM can call to another peered VoIP phone. You can also use Asterisk PBXs etc. Remember that the broadband connection,and PBX maintenance is still costing you money, hence not entirely 100%.

As soon as you 'break-out' to a Provider's network, you will need to pay a fee.

Hope the above explains it from a carriers point of view.

 

[TSpeed]

Thanks for the response. Loaded wireshark and saw that the RTP packets are routed through the Voip provider servers, hence the charge of the call.

Just for interest sake, i did a calculation what the actual cost is to terminate a call.
Say the Provider pays R30.00 per Gig, it works out to +- R0.03 per meg.To terminate a call uses +- 6000 bytes.
With 1 Meg you can terminate +- 170 calls which works out to R0.00018 per call. With 1Gig they can terminate 174080 calls.
This does not include the RTP portion, only to terminate the call.

 

[mo_to]

Thanks for the response. Loaded wireshark and saw that the RTP packets are routed through the Voip provider servers, hence the charge of the call.

Just for interest sake, i did a calculation what the actual cost is to terminate a call.
Say the Provider pays R30.00 per Gig, it works out to +- R0.03 per meg.To terminate a call uses +- 6000 bytes.
With 1 Meg you can terminate +- 170 calls which works out to R0.00018 per call. With 1Gig they can terminate 174080 calls.
This does not include the RTP portion, only to terminate the call.

It does not cost only bandwidth charges to terminate a carrier grade call. What about the ROI on the equipment, salaries of highly qualified engineers to maintain the network, and the inter-connect providers fee to terminate the call are just some of the hundreds of costs to factor into the delivery cost of a call.

The end user just gets delivered a working solution, but the engine contains many gears, pulleys and needs to remain well oiled

 

[TSpeed]

Thanks mo_to, i knew the voip providers were going to attack me. Let's talk about Return on Investment as you specified above. Say to terminate a call you make R0.20 , times that by the number of calls you can terminate with 1Gig at a cost of R30.00

No of calls terminated with 1Gig = 174080
Termination charge (estimate) = R0.20
Total charged per Gig = R34816

Less cost per Gig =R30.00
Profit per Gig =R34786

Not bad return on investment i would say, now times the gigs by say only 100XR34786 = R 3,478,600.00

 

[mo_to]

Thanks mo_to, i knew the voip providers were going to attack me.

No attack, just explaining a little on how it works. To explain in full, we'll need to meet for 10 000 hours as thats probably the skill and knowledge needed to run a very small carrier VoIP network.

Not bad return on investment i would say, now times the gigs by say only 100XR34786 = R 3,478,600.00

Let's all become telecom service providers and join the elite group of Vodafone, Carlos Slim and Alliance group
I'm sure we all have the minimum 10 000 hours and $1m venture capital

 

[TSpeed]

No lecture required from you mo_to, if you have ever written a sip server, sip gateway server,sip presence server, sip client, email server or web server, and you have a problem, contact us and maybe we will write a solution for you. We don't make use of third party software.