Lupus
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No idea which businesses
. Probably some smelters maybe?-
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- Thread starter bwana
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. Probably some smelters maybe?
I think someone mentioned some of the mines. Don't quote me though..No idea which businesses
pinball wizard
Honorary Master
Yeah, that makes me call BS on the story. You don't simply reduce load on a smelter. Those take forever to restart and get working again. It's one of those things you never ever turn off unless you are shutting the entire operation down for the long term.No idea which businesses
Lupus
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I said I don't know
This is worth a read, but doesn't explain enough IMHO - from @CataclysmZA replying to me in a recent power thread;
The simple explanation is that multiple generating units have multiple points of failure. To outsiders it looks like something's afoot when failures lineup and bring multiple generating units offline.
The more complex explanation is that electrical grids have optimisations applied to their design based on observations by Hygens in the late 17th century (the synchronisation of pendulums always occurs when they share a platform) that are compatible with the Kuramoto model of synchronisation. If multiple generating units do not match the grid frequency, then they fall out of sync and increase the draw on the generating units that are under-performing, eventually leading to a trip of the units when the current demand is higher than what they it can produce in order to fall back in sync with the grid frequency.
Rather than have units running out of sync with the grid (with the power going nowhere), they are taken offline to fix whatever issue is causing them to run under-powered, and then brought back online in synchronised fashion to restore generating capacity. Because synchronisation is key to power delivery, you also don't want units that are out of sync producing resonance that unduly stresses the materials used by the other generators, causing cracks in welds and other strange problems.
Eskom's grid is likely isochronous, where generating units maintain frequency regardless of load. This is why more units are taken offline when they show signa of a fault because while they can match the grid frequency, they can't generate enough power. If a generating unit falls out of sync with the other generators in the local network it will work harder to step back in sync with the other generators. This causes the resulting trips, equipment breaking, yadda yadda.
In reality these power stations always have multiple units going down for planned or unplanned maintenance, and most of the time we have generating units taken offline that don't affect the grid's overall power delivery because there's always just enough of a buffer to accommodate peak demand.
Every now and then, enough units go down at the same time to require the demand on the grid to be managed. Equipment failures are sometimes synchronised over long enough periods of time, which is why you get cascading hardware failures from a RAID array of hard drives when recovering from one or two failed drives. If they're all equally old, the chances of a synchronised failure increase proportional to time.
Maintaining grid synchronisation is why we have far more installed capacity than peak demand, with units regularly pulled out of service for maintenance. The schedule for maintenance matches what the modeling software for synchronisation tells them to do. If the modeling software tells them to expect peak loads exceeding what the current generating capacity is, then they'll either have to spin up the gas turbines to make up for the additional load, or reduce usage.
The simple explanation is that multiple generating units have multiple points of failure. To outsiders it looks like something's afoot when failures lineup and bring multiple generating units offline.
The more complex explanation is that electrical grids have optimisations applied to their design based on observations by Hygens in the late 17th century (the synchronisation of pendulums always occurs when they share a platform) that are compatible with the Kuramoto model of synchronisation. If multiple generating units do not match the grid frequency, then they fall out of sync and increase the draw on the generating units that are under-performing, eventually leading to a trip of the units when the current demand is higher than what they it can produce in order to fall back in sync with the grid frequency.
Rather than have units running out of sync with the grid (with the power going nowhere), they are taken offline to fix whatever issue is causing them to run under-powered, and then brought back online in synchronised fashion to restore generating capacity. Because synchronisation is key to power delivery, you also don't want units that are out of sync producing resonance that unduly stresses the materials used by the other generators, causing cracks in welds and other strange problems.
Eskom's grid is likely isochronous, where generating units maintain frequency regardless of load. This is why more units are taken offline when they show signa of a fault because while they can match the grid frequency, they can't generate enough power. If a generating unit falls out of sync with the other generators in the local network it will work harder to step back in sync with the other generators. This causes the resulting trips, equipment breaking, yadda yadda.
In reality these power stations always have multiple units going down for planned or unplanned maintenance, and most of the time we have generating units taken offline that don't affect the grid's overall power delivery because there's always just enough of a buffer to accommodate peak demand.
Every now and then, enough units go down at the same time to require the demand on the grid to be managed. Equipment failures are sometimes synchronised over long enough periods of time, which is why you get cascading hardware failures from a RAID array of hard drives when recovering from one or two failed drives. If they're all equally old, the chances of a synchronised failure increase proportional to time.
Maintaining grid synchronisation is why we have far more installed capacity than peak demand, with units regularly pulled out of service for maintenance. The schedule for maintenance matches what the modeling software for synchronisation tells them to do. If the modeling software tells them to expect peak loads exceeding what the current generating capacity is, then they'll either have to spin up the gas turbines to make up for the additional load, or reduce usage.
The problem with this is some houses use more power than others, otherwise.....
I'm sure a metering system would still be used, just privately organised.
Can't see the grabbamint stopping it if enough neighbourhoods just did it.
Much better than each house with it's own generator.
OT: it would be nice to get in a private company to fix the water pipes around here too, there's no water every couple of weeks.
pinball wizard
Honorary Master
The only problem with your idea is that council will still want it's rates and taxes (for service non-delivery), eskom will demand a flat connection fee regardless of consumption, rand water the same (and realistically, who can reticulate a whole new sewer system?), AND you want residents to fork out for your new system? I know some people like to think it's true, but we are not made of money, nor does it simply grow on trees.
BTW I'm also new to the idea, it just popped into my head, so lots of practical questions.
How expensive is such a big generator and is it easily available?
Who's going to put up with that noise, and usage of space?
How expensive if one has to figure in maintenance costs?
etc.
How expensive is such a big generator and is it easily available?
Who's going to put up with that noise, and usage of space?
How expensive if one has to figure in maintenance costs?
etc.
@CataclysmZA , regarding your synchronising "article" ;- )
How would the theory cover simultaneous breakdowns in different parts of the country?
Why aren't threatened units immediately, if not automatically brought to a halt, so preventing further repair needs?
And...
What could possibly explain things like parliament's needs in one building requiring much of the whole country to be turned on?
TIA
How would the theory cover simultaneous breakdowns in different parts of the country?
Why aren't threatened units immediately, if not automatically brought to a halt, so preventing further repair needs?
And...
What could possibly explain things like parliament's needs in one building requiring much of the whole country to be turned on?
TIA
grok
Honorary Master
Remember how it took an employee at a nuclear plant in Sweden to alert the world about Chernobyl having blown its reactor?
Never trust a commie they don't do truth, they do propaganda. The party has to be protected at all cost, even if it means the truth has to die.
Neuk_
Honorary Master
Our local ward councilor sends regular updates and one last week asked us to be patient due to the back log of faults
I held my tongue from telling him that no-one has any right to tell a rate and tax paying citizen to be patient with an utterly useless government or municipal organisation.A water pipe in our road collapses regularly and has done for the past few years. The time between the last two leaks was two weeks.
Of the 40 houses in our street I'm sure the majority would chip in to have that section fixed properly by a private contractor.
Moto Guzzi
Expert Member
Not higher than stage 2, or the growth predictions are a myth.
Then they should burn a whole lot more diesel and run pumps much more often..
I pay an exorbitant amount for electricity and want whatever it takes on their part to provide a proper regular service..
And.. While they about it get efficient and drop the price too..
Easter Bunny
Expert Member
stage 420
Beyond.Celsus
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