How to network a Gated Village

ColinR

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I'm looking at options for networking our complex which has 207 houses. We currently have a Telkom PABX with extensions in each house.

What would be the recommended and/or most feasible option?

  • Fibre
  • CAT5
  • Wifi
  • DSLAM with ADSL

Fibre would be great, but a switch to support 207 fibre connections would cost plenty! CAT5 has a ~100m limit.

Our complex is a 400m square.
 
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CAT5
100m per link, max 5 hubs in a row

Wifi, equipment kinda expensive, link quality not as good as a cabled solution.
Look at Mikrotik routers.

Best would be to do a hybrid network. CAT5 all the one's close to each other, fun fiber as backbone links, and use wifi for laptops, ppl outa cat5 range.
 
My question is though, how do you get a hub/switch inline within the cable ducts that exist for the telephone system (which would make the most sense using)

Unless its a daisy chain with each house having a switch installed, linking to the neighbour?
 
Suggestion

I'm looking at options for networking our complex which has 207 houses. We currently have a Telkom PABX with extensions in each house.
What would be the recommended and/or most feasible option?
  • Fibre
  • CAT5
  • Wifi
  • DSLAM with ADSL
Fibre would be great, but a switch to support 207 fibre connections would cost plenty! CAT5 has a ~100m limit.
Our complex is a 400m square.

Depends on how much CABLING you want to do.

The already installed TP for the PABX means you can use those cables -- BUT then you need onsite DSLAMS == more expensive

UTP == an Ethernet system will give you the most options -- but then you will have to run the cable yourself (can be complicated and tricky)

Think about Gigabit Ethernet.

Think a "Star" topology. Fiber for long runs to points and then Cat 5e / 6 to the units.

Get 48 port Gigabit switches with GBICS for fiber ( you will only need a few )

You will have to construct a "housing" to put this stuff in out of the weather ( someones broom cupboard ) you will also need SAFE POWER and lightning protection.

Then you need all the stuff for the WAN / Outside / ISP side of things. ( Routers / ADSL / Diginet etc etc )

You will also need some sort of "termination" point ( for your servers )

You also need to think about things like AUTHENTICATION / USEAGE etc etc the SOFTWARE and ADMINISTRATION side of things.

Once you have got this far setting up some form of complementary wireless should be easy -- and I think something additional to have.

Wireless has the problem of SPECTRUM -- normal WiFi is not going to go that far -- especially through multiple walls.
To do the whole complex wireless you are going to have to look at custom / professional installation == expensive

There is also an outsider option -- "Data-over-Power"

That is another story on it's own ( not sure of anybody doing this :confused: )

Try ATEC they have an office in SlaapStad.


Go find somewhere where they have done this already and see what they did.


MW
 
We have the main entrance to the complex that has all the current Telkom PABS hardware in, so that would be the logical spot for the main stuff. The fibre points make the most sense, get the distance with fibre, branch off from there.
 
CAUTION

We have the main entrance to the complex that has all the current Telkom PABS hardware in, so that would be the logical spot for the main stuff. The fibre points make the most sense, get the distance with fibre, branch off from there.

Just a slight note of caution

( NO disrespect meant to Gerhard )

I live in a complex -- I have THREE TELKOM pairs terminating here -- so I could have DSL / Diginet / Analogue fax IF I wanted to pay rent on THREE lines.

TELKOM just recently put in new underground cable and I am close to the MAIN exchange.

One of the NEOTEL main fiber cables is installed along a road about 200 / 300 metres away.

There is a 3G tower not far away and I ALWAYS get 3.6

Do you understand what I am saying.

Although all of the units here are TELKOM wired , most of the residents ( lots of students ) prefer to use their MOBILES and their E220's

WHAT happens if V3G decides to come and put up a BIG 3G tower across the road :confused:

How UPMARKET is your complex :confused:

DO you WANT or NEED "Triple-Play" IP :confused:

What I am saying -- IF there are lots of other alternatives ( anyone in an URBAN setting ) then selling a "lock-in" solution is going to be a HARD sell

( At this point in time it is more of a "LIFE-STYLE" type of thing ;) )


We will see how hard if I start thinking about connecting this place :D


MW
 
FTTH....

Gents,we supply to some of the biggest triple play markets in the world...we manufacture for the major telco's even supllying telkom and Multichoice in S.A.,networks can be built a 100 different way.
www.foxcom.com

Welcome to Foxcom, a Division of OnePath Networks. For more than a decade, Foxcom has been developing creative fiber optic solutions for the professional satellite, TV and video distribution markets. Since 1993 we have installed over 20,000 fiber optic links in diver market segments in over fifty countries.
With research and development grounded in customer feedback, Foxcom has introduced many “firsts” in the TV, video, audio, and data transmission industries. Foxcom is an industry leader in product quality, reliability and customer satisfaction and is well-known for its cutting-edge innovations.

Our new broadband BsmarTV suite brings HDTV, voice and broadband data via a single wire into the home. The suite includes our SDTVplus and FTTx HFC distribution system, the much newer AverLux and AverLuxPlus [MFH-2 ready] modular fiber optic RF distribution system, and the BsmarTV line of data products.

Foxcom offers a full range of products for both the satellite communications and broadband worlds. For satellite communications the SatLight family and our next generation Sat-Light/Platinum of fiber optic interfacility products transport satellite signals in:

• Earth stations and broadcast facilities
• Internet Service Providers (ISPs) gateways
• Cable TV head ends, RF over fiber
• And other communication gateways

...as for the site... +1000 000 Direct TV clients in the USA seem to be pretty happy!!! but I'm open constructive critisim...
 
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WIKI

we would glady assist...as we are independent and offer no charge for planning and design...
Hi ,

I think you can start by putting a WIKI on all those BIIIGGG technical words

Thanks


the ILLITERATE one
 
Fights

HHHhmmm

Looks like a fight is brewing in the upmarket gated community ........

IPTV / VOD

ODM / FTA

:confused::confused::confused:


MW
 
I'm looking at options for networking our complex which has 207 houses.
DSLAM - Fibre would be great, but a switch to support 207 fibre connections would cost plenty! CAT5 has a ~100m limit.
Our complex is a 400m square.

You would specifically not use fiber for your setup. Fiber is for high capacity point to point links. Get a Zyxel VDSL2+ DSLAM range is 600m to 1,5km. Contac Communiverse (021 555 1024) - Werner, and if he can't help you get hold of Zyxel USA.

See http://scratchpad.wikia.com/wiki/DsLam

=== DSLAM forms a large area LAN ===
A Dslam connects via [[TwistedPair]] copper wire to a VDSL modem upto a distance of 600m. The wireing for a DSLAM are laid via [[TelephoneNetworkRollout]] which should be seen as a wider attempt to implement legal [[MeshNetworking]], [[FreeSpaceOptics]] and illegal [[WiMax]]. A DSLAM is one of the most powerful network and communications devices on a cost performance basis. That is why Telco's use it. The drawback is the need for cabling. Where possible [[FreeSpaceOptics]] should be used. Fiber and/or DSLAM are used to interlink these FSO nodes depending on multiple factors such as desired bandwidth, user density and future scalability of the network.

=== Features ===
* DSLAM: Digital Subscriber line access multiplexer
* Is a Point-to-Multipoint device or Router and Switch combination.
* It has multiple ATM ports functioning as a SwiTch on the front of the DSLAM box and one Ethernet upload port at the back from where configuration of the DSLAM is done.
* Each ATM DSLAM port interfaces with a single VDSL modem via the ATM protocol using AWG24 [[TwistedPair]].
* A VDSL modem is an '''ATM-to-Ethernet''' protocol converter.
* Each VDSL modem provides upto 32 MAC addresses to an Ethernet device.
* The VDSL modem hands out an Ethernet [[DhCp]] lease to an Ethernet device.
* Zyxel DSLAM Sizes vary between sixteen and 200 ports.
* Zyxel VDSL2+ is the preferred DSLAM solution.
* The eight port uses eight RJ-11 telephone jack connectors.
* The larger port sizes use a Telco-50 connector cable.
* It has QOS, bandwidth increments of 32k, P2P blocking and other bandwidth management features.
* Downstream bandwidth 24meg(ADSL2+), 24meg(VDSL), 50meg(VDSL2)
* Upstream bandwidth 1.6meg(VDSL2+), 10meg(VDSL), 50meg(VDSL2)
* Downstream distances ~626m(VDSL2+), 1km(VDSL), 1.5km(VDSL2+)
* A VDSL modem needs two AWG24 wires, Ethernet needs eight wires.
* Allows for triple play services such as voice,video and data.
* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triple_play_(telecommunications)
* Holiday Inn uses a DSLAM to ''stream video on demand'' to their hotel rooms in South Africa.

=== Multicasting function of DSLAM ===
* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multicast
* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IP_Multicast
http://tech.slashdot.org/tech/08/07/18/2040213.shtml explains how ISPs have disabled the "multi-cast" video streaming
function on their DSLAM routers. Bit-torrents from [[TelevisionOverInternet]] overcomes this obstacle by stream the content over port 80 of HTTP. DSLAMs were designed with multi-casting video streams in mind so that there is no need for torrents on a local DSLAM network.


=== Role of the DSLAM ===
DSLAM: '''Digital subscriber line access multiplexer'''

A DSLAM is a viable alternative to many Fiber deployments, it allows people to build their own private telephone exchanges via [[TelephoneNetworkRollout]] and underground cabling in the exact same manner that a Telco builds their exchanges. The word ''subscriber'' confuses the role of a DSLAM. Human beings subscribe to a certain world view. An ATM DSLAM and an Ethernet [[SwiTch]] are not subscribing to anything, they are interfacing via a communications protocol: Either ATM or Ethernet to another device using the same protocol.

On top of the ATM protocol the IP protocol is implemented. IP is also implemented over Ethernet protocol so that as far as the users are concerned they are using IP from the CPE Ethernet port to the DSLAM Ethernet upload port and need not concern themselves with the VDSL modem implementing IP over Ethernet and then over ATM.

A DSLAM functioning as a SwiTch and RouTer, receives the VDSL modem data on an ATM port, converts it to Ethernet and streams this data via the single Ethernet gigabit link that physically plugs into the DSLAM itself unto an Ethernet based network. This Ethernet network is usually a Telco network but for communities setting up their own telephone exchange it will be their own server streaming whatever can be streamed over Ethernet using a whatever protocol such as IP.

The data uploaded to the DSLAM via it's Gigabit Ethernet port is converted to the ATM protocol and streamed out to each VDSL modem from each respective ATM port on the DSLAM. Each VDSL modem converts the ATM protocol data to Ethernet data. As far as the end user is concerned he is using the IP protocol from end-to-end. The DSLAM overcomes the distance limitation of 100m over copper wire that limits Ethernet usage. The ATM protocol uses fixed packet widths and Ethernet uses variable data rates. As the distance of a wire increases, its resistance increases hence the the need for the ATM protocol between the ATM DSLAM port and the VDSL modem. For [[FiberOptics]] the preferd protocol is Ethernet due to its simplicity. ATM is a complex protocol but has to be used for long distance communication over copper exceeding 100m.

Up to eight DSLAMs can be daisy chained. Dslam1 connects via one of it's ATM ports to Dslams2's ATM port. These two Dslams then communicate via the ATM protocol. View a DSLAM as forming a huge LAN. These large DSLAM LANs link into a WAN and view a Telephone company as a WAN operator. These WANs are linked via fiberoptics using the Ethernet protocol. A Dslam just like a Router, Hub, Bridge and Switch per se has got nothing to do with a Telephone company. All Telcos just happen to use Ethernet based RouTers, SwiTch and the ATM based switch/router combination known as a DSLAM. A community setting up their own telephone exchange via a DSLAM is just setting up a large area LAN that can radiate out to 5km.

'''Digital subscriber line access multiplexer''' can also be rephrased as: ''VDSL modem router.'' [[BR]] A DSLAM should be visualized as a long distance switch connected to a Router. A [[RouTer]] connected to a [[SwiTch]] can also be described as ,,multiplexing,, the SwiTch data via it's Gigabit Ethernet port unto an Ethernet based network. As far as RouTers and DSLAMs are concerned their Gigabit Ethernet ports ''multiplexes'' the Ethernet protocol data unto a computer network which also uses the Ethernet protocol. The DSLAM converts the ethernet data that was uploaded to it by its physical gigabit Ethernet port, converts it to the ATM protocol and streams it via ATM to the ATM port of each respective VDSL modem. Telkom links from the CO to the CPE can also be formed using Ethernet based RouTers and SwiTches but because of the distance limitation of 100m over copper with Ethernet, telephone exchanges use a DSLAM.

Place an Ethernet switch in your study and call it the [[CentralOffice]]. Connect it to another switch in the kitchen and call it the CPE(Customer premise equipment). These two Ethernet switches communicate via the ethernet protocol, which has got nothing to do with "customers", "premises" or "offices". Place a DSLAM in your office and connect its Gigabit Ethernet port an Ethernet router connected to the Internet. Place a VDSL modem in the kitchen and lounge and run [[TwistedPair]] to each modem. Call the VDSL modem the CPE and call the DSLAM the CO. The DSLAM interfacing via ATM with the ATM port of the VDSL modem which in turn converts it to Ethernet has also got nothing to do with "customers" or "offices". It is just a telco naming convention. Now take the same DSLAM and run [[TwistedPair]] to a VDSL modem outside the home over multiple walls via [[TelephoneNetworkRollout]]. The telco jargon term for this is [[OutsidePlant]] connectivity or OSP. Between Telkoms DSLAM connection and the VDSL modem at the CPE there is Main_Distribution_Frames, [[CentralOffice]], Local loops and a [[ServingAreaInterface]], but as far as the DSLAM is concerned it still communicates via ATM with the ATM port of the VDSL or VDSL modem no matter through what [[ServingAreaInterface]], distribution frames or whatever loop you wish to take the [[TwistedPair]] through. The failure to distinguish this causes confusion when trying to understand the role of the DSLAM in and of itself which is independent of all these telco jargon terms.

=== Generations of DSLAMs ===
* ADSL 256k up and 4meg down.
* ADLS2 1meg up and 24meg down.
* VDSL 10meg up and 24meg down.
* VDSL2 50meg up and 50meg down.

=== VDSL2+ speeds and reach ===
* Price $900 for 16-port DSLAM
* Upload and Download: 50megs at 650m per DSLAM port.
As the distance of the VDSL modem from the DSLAM increases the throughput will drop. At any distance where the speed becomes unacceptable, connect a Fiber/Ethernet module to the VDSL modem's ethernet port. The Fiber/Ethernet module is essentially a two-port SwiTch.
 
CAT5
100m per link, max 5 hubs in a row

Wifi, equipment kinda expensive, link quality not as good as a cabled solution.
Look at Mikrotik routers.

Best would be to do a hybrid network. CAT5 all the one's close to each other, fun fiber as backbone links, and use wifi for laptops, ppl outa cat5 range.

The best solution is to do exactly what Telkom, Neotel and every other Telco in the world would do: Build a telephone exchange and insert a http://scratchpad.wikia.com/wiki/DsLam.

Get technical data and books from these companies who's engineers will also provide advice on building a telephone exchange:

* http://www.westek.com/
* http://66.111.101.221/enews/past/view/?issueID=20070717 Backhaul solutions
* http://www.telecomosp.com/ Copper splicing outside plant products
* http://www.ospmag.com Trade Journal for Telecoms Professionals
* http://www.tequipment.net/WilcomTeleTransT124.asp Telecoms testing equipment
* http://www.charlesindustries.com/hvdl.htm Outside plant company
* http://www.gmptools.com/nf/ OSP stuff
* http://www.criticaltelecom.com/products/index.php
* http://www.rrdatatelecom.com/rrdata9.html
 
This site http://www.foxcom.com/index.aspx?id=2503 is confusing me.
What is RFvideo? Video originates as an analogue 1volt p-p signal with a sync signal. To digitize this a video desinc circuit does an A/D conversion into flash memory which in turn is manipulated by DSP and FPGA technology. The CMOS or CCD sensor primarily determines what type of quality or resolution one can obtain. To transmit just an analogue TV signal 6Mhz of RF bandwidth is needed, how do you bring the fiber which is a digital technology into this.

# 54 – 860 MHz [CCTV, VOD etc.]
# Up to five 2.5 GHz DBS [DTH] polarities totaling 12 GHz of bandwidth

Please clarify the above. Is Foxcom talking about an analogue or digital signal ?
# High speed Internet
# VoIPTelephony

This is digital, what do you mean with 1,2ghz bandwidth capacity etc...
Please advise.
 
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WIRES

Hi Captn ,

Thanks for that long and detailed explanation

You are confused -- I am confused


Thinking Ethernet.

Cat 5 UTP is four pairs but only two are used. So WHY do we have FOUR pairs ( PoE) :confused:

TP -- telephone wire is one pair

DSL arrives from the CO on TP

What protocol is running on the TP ? PPPoE / PPPoA

How do you run these on just ONE pair :confused:


How does your DSL router flow "DSL" (ONE TP ) on the WAN port and convert this to Ethernet on the LAN port.

It is all these different wires and protocols that are getting me confused.


DSLAMS / FIBRE / UTP / TELCOM / IPTV

It seems that there are many different ways to get to ROME and many barbarians along the way.


MW
 
Hi Carruden

I picked up on this post from one of our technicians.

I think the starting point for you is first to decide what you want to achieve as MW correctly noted.

If you want VOD, you need 8-10 Mb/sec dedicated to each unit.

If you want HDTV and I mean 1080 and not 720 you need 30 to 40 Mb/sec.

Then start looking at our options:

Copper: unless you are going point to point, you will be able to get 4 homes per backbone and the distance can not exceed practically 80m as at the end of the 100m you don't get 100Mb a sec. 4 Houses on 100 Meg then gives you 25Mb/ sec which is in line with the broadband forum (www.broadband-forum.org) bench mark. It is however impractical to pull 50 odd cables through a lift shaft (208/4= 52)

Wireless: Don't even go there

PLC: Don't even go there (we just ripped out a PLC network), the problem is not the technology but the actual workmanship on the electricity network, ie the plugs and circuit breakers are not installed properly and the network fails.

FTTC: Use a fibre backbone (plan for 35Mb/sec per house) and breakout with Copper

FTTH: How fast do you want to go :)

In terms of the installer:

Get someone who can service the network not just a supplier, no disrepect towards any supplier, just a practical reality. ATEC will not install a network which we can't support, hence no wireless or PLC.

Also make sure there are reference sites and that they have relationships with services suppliers (and I'm specifically referring to VOD); the trick with VOD is not the technology, but the content and the network needs to be designed bearing a specific system in mind.

Also just remeber that it is a costly exercise which can cost you from R8 000 to R20 000 per unit if you do it properly.

If you wish to chat let me know.
 
And also if at all possible try and get a consulting engineering firm to run it as your project manager, it adds about 8-10% on your price but is well worth and your installer should actually give you a discount to curb some of this consultation fee

We've dealt with Rob Anderson from Rob Anderson and Associates and Gerrie Swart from Secelec who are both highly competent and very well informed on these systems.
 
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