Hunters : CRS vs BBotB

Oculate

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Theres alot of arguing going on in the hunter forums

Slow vs Fast

How much haste makes X bow as viable as Y bow

According to Osse, 40-55 haste rating makes the CRS the best BM bow using a 3:2 macro.

I've bought myself the CRS last night, and can't wait to test it on Dr Boom

Have any other hunters gotten it?

Thoughts/Ideas/Comments/Flames?
 
When my RAM to HDD macro is less than 1:100 the PPT is a slow response. :mad:

I must be to old for this cause I have no idea what you are saying. But good luck with it! :D
 
When my RAM to HDD macro is less than 1:100 the PPT is a slow response. :mad:

You might wanna get that looked at?

Yes MadMailMan, this does sound like jibberish to non-wow players but the community i'm posting this to, does understand it however

Hunters have the most complex dps rotation in Warcraft, so its always good to discuss macros/weapons speeds/haste ratings etc with each other
 
You might wanna get that looked at?

Yes MadMailMan, this does sound like jibberish to non-wow players but the community i'm posting this to, does understand it however

Hunters have the most complex dps rotation in Warcraft, so its always good to discuss macros/weapons speeds/haste ratings etc with each other

Actually I'd say SPriests have the most complex rotation. Hunter rotations are easily sorted with correct macro's.
Not so with a Shadow Priest. You can't repeat one particular sequence of casts because you have a variety or cooldowns that all differ and you have 3 different abilities expiring at different intervals.
 
With the introduction of macros, the complexity is reduced. Still, its the 1,5sec cast of steady shot, weaving Arcane shot into your macro, the hidden 0.5 cast of auto shot, the weapon speed taken into consideration, haste rating, making sure you dont clip your shots, whether to use haste effects (iAotH + Bloodlust/Heroism + Drums)...and topping the dps meters. So yeah, manually timing shots is a nightmare, but we do have macros :p

Spriests 3 abilities are SWP, MF, VT?

WTB another hunter to post here, defending my post from the trolls trying to derail it is hard >.<
 
Spriest has to weave in VE, SW:D and MB

SW:P, VT and VE all have different durations.
SW:D and MB have different cooldowns and their use varies according to Mana levels.
MF is channeled for 3 seconds.

As a SPriest you have to shift rotations constantly according to what dots are up, cooldowns and your MF.

Back on topic, the best person to answer you is Pornolio. If anyone will know he will.
 
I havent got SW : D yet :( my spriest is only 54

Least with a Spriest, you have an excuse for a MASSIVE Cooldown counter on your screen :p
 
Heya... Funny you mentioned this topic since I have been doing benchmarking the last few days regarding this new badge bow.

Lot of people were claiming its better than BBoTB, Archi bow etc, but its not really the full truth.

Ok here are my findings :

The new badge bow can be better, because it requires less haste to make the sweet 3:2 holy grail of shooting speeds. In order for you too pull max dps the 3:2 rotation NEEDS to live in the 2.0 - 1.9 shooting speed range.
So, it means because the new X-bow is allready shooting faster than the BBoTB + BBS, you require less haste to make the sweet 2.0 - 1.9 shooting speed sweet spot. The reason I say 1.9 minimum, is because we have to account for Lag as well... the real figure is actually 1.8. And as for haste, its one of the most difficult stats to make work, since it gimps so many other stats in the process... and this is why this bow is so good, it makes it easier to get to that hot zone.

BUT... and this is where the real life DPS truth starts hitting...

If you have enough haste with a 3.0 Bow like BBoTB + BBS, and by this I mean, getting a 3.0 sec bow down to 2.0 / 1.9 ... it CRUSHES that bow on dps stats. In short, the new x-bow makes it easier to reach the sweet spot, hence more people see the great dps stats from the new bow.... But for the few people that manage to get the 3.0 bows down to 2.0 / 1.9 ... they are the big boys breaking the 2300 dps marks. You are talking a 300+ dps difference.

Ok and this is also where it gets interresting. If you exceed the 1.8 (theoretical limit for the 3:2 rotation), and this usually happens when you pop bloodlust from shamans, rapid fire, drums etc... when you go below 1.8 attack speed, your macro defaults to a 1:1 rotation. And this is where haste becomes negative as you most probably heard a lot of theorycrafters have been against haste. Its easy to overcome.. basically when your shooting speed gets to ridiculous levels, STOP macro spamming, and just let your autofire do its job. You get more dps, and more damage in that short period in time when your haste + attack speed is at insane levels, than using steady macro clipping your autoshots to hell and gone. The problem with the 3:2 rotation is... its DAMN heavy on mana. Last night in the Sunwell raid, I managed to do a sustained 1700 dps average on trash, which is pretty decent. On average I can only achieve 1700 - 2400 dps on boss fights where its sustainted single target nuking. So yes, 3:2 macro with 2.0 attack speed is the holy grail to aim for. You become untouchable on damage meters... on average last night I was 120k damage ahead of our top warlock.

What you can do, keep the 1:1 rotation macro real close by on your task bar, and keep using your 3:2 rotation. On certain boss fights the 1:1 will be better since its a lot more mana conservative. 3:2 rotation has me drinking mana after each pull, but for higher dps.

So in a nutshell... if you dont have BBoTB / BBS... then yes that bow is insane. But if you wanna crush anything on dps meters... get your 3.0 bow down to 2.0 / 1.9.

Hope it helps... it might sound a bit gibberish with all this theorycrafting mumbo jumbo, but ask if you need me to expand on certain mentioned sections.

cheers

:)
 
How much haste are we talking?

Currently i have 0 haste :( I reckon i should stockpile it, till i get a 3.0 speed bow

My attack speed is 2.03 atm, latt is usually 250-400ms in raids, and i've got the 3:2 macro and the 1:1 in my hotbar, i've yet to test it

Our SV hunter is getting prior on haste gear (our hunter theorycrafter says haste + agi = insane dps) and she has prior on Archi's bow

Haste isn't my issue atm... its my hit rating, with the new xbow, ive dropped another 5 hit rating. I'm still waiting for HoD to drop so i can start replacing my leather legs
 
With the badge bow, I am at 1.91 attack speed.
I have however no idea how you can talk about 2k dps! I can hardly get over 1.2k dps! I must be missing something, or my macro is totaly bugged.
Time to experiment with some new things perhaps?
3:2 macro is that the one where you auto:steady:kill comand:auto? or do I have that wrong?
Would love to boost my dps by another 200 dps! Maybe it would require dropping some haste items and getting more crit? I am strugling with 21% crit unbuffed.
 
I'm sitting at 30.82% crit atm lacking AP tho... need to upgrade my legacy -.-
 
@ Optioncarduser : I am currently on 111 haste, which brings me into the 2.0 attack speed with Serpents Swiftness (20 % + 7.04 % speed boost passive). I can get into the 160's with all my haste items equipped, but then I am gimping HR + crit in the process... Squeezing every bit of dps nukage power out of my hunter, the current setup is optimum. Now I need to stack on Ignore armour stats for brutalis encounter, and from all my reading up, its his biggest weakness. Your SV hunter is right about his dps boosting theorycrafting, BUT you will benefit just as much as him if not more. Haste is heaven sent, but its damn hard to make work. End game gear allows you to stack up on haste if you go for selective items. Like eg. the boots from MH is much, much better than the teron boots if you are looking @ boosting haste. Purely because you have more headroom to work with thanks to the 2 x gem slots and tons of HR + you can do surefooted enchant on boots... if you look @ my build you will see just how bad haste has gimped my HR, I actually have to raid with the bow stiched leggings with an additional +10 HR gem in them... which allows me not to loose my 4 x piece tier 6 bonus, and I sit on around 133 HR then.

@ Werries : I would need to take a look at your current gear + setup but you have to keep in mind your dps / damage output will greatly be affected by your current gear setup. Fortunately the current badge items are insane, and will bring you very close to BT gear levels.
The 3:2 macro I am using and would recommend is the following :

#showtooltip
/console Sound_EnableSFX 0
/cast !Auto shot
/cast Steady Shot
/cast [target=pettarget, exists] Kill Command
/script UIErrorsFrame:Clear()
/console Sound_EnableSFX 1

Reference : http://wowhunters.coldfront.net/macros/shots/32-macro.html

Its very, very, very important that you use the exact sequence... putting the KC command or steady anywhere else, breaks the rotation. The 1:1 macro has the steady first.
From what you mentioned with your current crit rating, you will need a feral druid in your party to unlock a ton more DPS.
You will also find using your BW + trinkets whenever they are cooled down... wheter its only trash, helps a lot for overall sustained, consistent 1700 DPS.
Use your pet ALWAYS. Dont let him stand next to you idle while you nuke.
Never go into aspect of the viper....

With some minor tuning etc you should be able to do 1700 dps pretty easy, its once you get to the 2100 dps mark where it gets hard. You need haste pots, perfect group setup (shammy with agility totem + strength totem out, a feral druid + another hunter in your party) and minimal running around time to reach those levels of dps. Thursday we are doing a BT clearing run again, will try and get some stats together. How much haste have you got currently ?
 
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Interesting you link a macro that removes sound :)

I was taking a look at BigRedKitty.net a few hours ago

http://www.bigredkitty.net/forums/index.php?topic=1003.0

MACRO 1:

#showtooltip Steady Shot
/console Sound_EnableSFX 0
/cast !Auto Shot
/click [target=pettarget,exists] MultiBarBottomLeftButton12
/cast Steady Shot
/console Sound_EnableSFX 1
/script UIErrorsFrame:Clear()

MACRO 2:

/castsequence reset=4 Kill Command, !Auto Shot, !Auto Shot, !Auto Shot

Take the button for MACRO 1, place it somewhere you can mash it endlessly.

Take the button for MACRO 2, and place it on the last button space (right hand side) of Action Bar 6. If you have your action bars expanded out, collapse them, go to the 6th tab of buttons, and place it in the last spot. If you have an addon or mod that changes your buttons, turn it off, place the macro in the proper place and then reload your addon.

Macro 1 is spammed, with a 2.9 weapon as a BM hunter (Sunfury, Steam Pistol, etc.) with as close to 2.0 attack speed as possible. Macro 1 will automatically trigger Macro 2 when Kill Command is available, and will also guarantee no clipped Auto Shots or macro hangs when the Kill Command goes off.

One MAJOR benefit to this macro - Kill Command and all hunter shots are on SEPARATE macros - meaning if Kill Command "locks" - your shots are not locked with it! You can continue to fire, usually getting another critical strike within a few moments, and "unlock" Kill Command. Occasionally you will still end combat in a "locked" state, where you will not be able to feed your pet, open chests or doors, etc. This is a KNOWN BUG that Blizzard is currently in the process of fixing (supposedly) - to unlock from this state, you must either (1) enter combat, get a critical strike AND cast Kill Command, or (2) Re-log via ALT-F4 (you can't even hit Esc to access the options menu while "locked). The other key thing to note - SEPARATED MACRO ALLOWS YOU TO DPS A DIFFERENT TARGET THAN YOUR PET. Your macro will mess you up if you try to use it on a target other than the one your pet has, and will end up changing your pet's target to your own, and sometimes changing your target to your pet's.
 
Agsilver on Shadowsong eu, I might have logged out in PVP gear though since tuesdays are pvp nights.

My stats buffed only with hawk.
2002 RAP
21% Crit
150 Hit
~95 haste (ZA final sword and neck + Badge chest)
1.91 speed

Still using a way older macro with the 3 sec timer included in it. Was part of the tips you gave me http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthread.php?t=102292 way back

#showtooltip Steady Shot
/castsequence reset=3 Steady Shot, !Auto Shot
/castrandom [target=pettarget, exists] Kill Command
/script UIErrorsFrame:Clear()

Maybe that is where my error lies.
 
I lost the roll on the sword on sunday :( Dam offspec prot warriors -.-
 
I dont like that macro purely for the fact that it messes up when your pet is on another target than you currently attacking.

Eg. Little trick I do on shade of akama... I am on channeler killing duty.
Having my pet on the target all the melee guys are attacking is not optimal... why ? because those channelers fall so quickly, that my pet has to be sent on the next target... so he runs around like crazy... I put him on the last channeler from the start.. so he can chow and eat the channeler up from the beginning of the encounter without running around loosing dps time.

I have my doubts about the guy that wrote that macro, have a look at his gear + setup + talents. Dunno man... the macro there is a custom bastardization of the 3:2 / 1:1 and 1:2 ... not too mention certain basic talents EVERY raiding hunter should have, is not even selected.

I had a look at the author of that macro's talent build + gear + choices in gems + enchants... lets just say I have my doubts. Lotta people are customizing known working macro's into their own little macro's and at the end of the day, it just doesnt deliver as the tried and tested macro's.

I take a lot of the theory with a pinch of salt, there are however certain hunters which know their class inside out, which you know will give you good advice.... Most of them are on the EJ forums, although lately I have seen a lot of n00b hunters hanging out there asking stupid dumbass questions like how do I as hunter kill Boss X in karazahn ?? I mean... wtf ? Why dont they go troll the normal hunter forums for that level of information ?? Why do they bother guys working on the eredar twins, and fine tuning hunter rotations with crap like that ??

Be carefull not to get to much entangled into becoming a spreadsheet hunter. We have things like HIGH lag values to compensate for... the only way to really see what works for you and your build, is personalized dps tests.

Most of the macro's / shot rotations I use, is good for my latency of around 290 / 310 MS average.

@ Werries.. yes thats the 1:1 macro... I still use it from time to time, it is the better one to use on long boss fights. Its a LOT better on mana consumption. If you dont have 5/5 in mana efficiency, keep using it. The other new one is for better dps, but you will be drinking more than a alcoholic mage. Every single trash mob pull i sit and drink. So it comes at a price. :)
As for your speed + haste... you are perfect for a 3:2 rotation macro... you will see massive overall damage / dps boosts. Anything more, and you should stick with the 1:1 macro.
 
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True...

As i've said i've yet to test out the xbow, i'm using the same macro as Werries tbh :p

I enjoy reading thru some of the EJ hunter threads (all 150 pages of it), very interesting SV hunters are gonna the new FOTM...
 
Eish, I know you guys need to tweak like mad for DPS but from this topic I can see you guys need to pick your gear just as carefully as an Enhance Shammie.

I still think it's awesome that Pornolio takes the time and effort to not only post his and others Theorycrafting but that the man can take the time to check peoples Armory profiles.

I think we should award Noddy Badges for being helpful.
/votes for Pornolio.
 
Hahaha <3 Shogun :)

Yea thats why I really get p33ved off when people post crap like hunter is a n00b class etc. The amount of theoretical knowledge and tuning that goes into building a proper DPS monster hunter, really is very time consuming.

I am the first to admit prior to TBC, hunters damage was horrendous, we were purely being tagged along for our tranqshots. I Always find it nice to help other hunters which are passionate about their class. Even if they just increase their dps by 30 / 40, then in my books its a success. The better your hunter gets... the more you love him. I cant see myself rerolling another class ever.. not even when Lich king expansion comes out. :)
 
Yeah, i've got quite a few alts... i don't love any of them as much as i love my hunter :)

EDIT : /vote Pornolio :p
 
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