I guess Dr Huxtable's comments could apply here too

[bekdik]

http://www.snopes.com/politics/soapbox/cosby.asp

They're standing on the corner and they can't speak English. I can't even talk the way these people talk: Why you ain't, Where you is, What he drive, Where he stay, Where he work, Who you be... And I blamed the kid until I heard the mother talk. And then I heard the father talk.

Everybody knows it's important to speak English except these knuckleheads. You can't be a doctor with that kind of crap coming out of your mouth. In fact you will never get any kind of job making a decent living.

People marched and were hit in the face with rocks to get an education, and now we've got these knuckleheads walking around. The lower economic people are not holding up their end in this deal. These people are not parenting. They are buying things for kids. $500 sneakers for what? And they won't spend $200 for Hooked on Phonics.

I am talking about these people who cry when their son is standing there in an orange suit. Where were you when he was 2? Where were you when he was 12? Where were you when he was 18 and how come you didn't know that he had a pistol? And where is the father? Or who is his father?

People putting their clothes on backward: Isn't that a sign of something gone wrong? People with their hats on backward, pants down around the crack, isn't that a sign of something? Or are you waiting for Jesus to pull his pants up? Isn't it a sign of something when she has her dress all the way up and got all type of needles [piercing] going through her body?

What part of Africa did this come from? We are not Africans. Those people are not Africans; they don't know a thing about Africa. With names like Shaniqua, Taliqua and Mohammed and all of that crap, and all of them are in jail.

Brown or black versus the Board of Education is no longer the white person's problem. We have got to take the neighborhood back. People used to be ashamed.

Today a woman has eight children with eight different 'husbands'; or men or whatever you call them now. We have millionaire football players who cannot read. We have million-dollar basketball players who can't write two paragraphs. We as black folks have to do a better job. Someone working at Wal-Mart with seven kids, you are hurting us. We have to start holding each other to a higher standard.

We cannot blame the white people any longer.

The general quality of English dismays me. Yes I know that the English professors dismiss most comments as being inapplicable, as English is a dynamic language, but in my view, the miscommunication caused by bad usage is probably the cause of a very large proportion of strife in all walks of life. We simply do not understand each other.

Yes the quote does include the phrase

We cannot blame the white people any longer.

, but this is NOT a racist diatribe. It's simply a comment made by Cosby and should be treated by formites as such.

 

[Piepalook]

Cosby seemed to hammer the nail on it's head.

To tackle a serious issue like that in a humoristic way takes some doing.

It is also the truth.

We see examples of it every day.

 

[sox63]

http://www.snopes.com/politics/soapbox/cosby.asp



The general quality of English dismays me. Yes I know that the English professors dismiss most comments as being inapplicable, as English is a dynamic language, but in my view, the miscommunication caused by bad usage is probably the cause of a very large proportion of strife in all walks of life. We simply do not understand each other.

Yes the quote does include the phrase , but this is NOT a racist diatribe. It's simply a comment made by Cosby and should be treated by formites as such.

Could you explain what the situation of a minority in another country has anything to do with SA?

 

[Piepalook]

Could you explain what the situation of a minority in another country has anything to do with SA?

He also lost me there.

 

[zanga]

I am sure this is unrelated to our country because of a thing called poverty

 

[Piepalook]

I am sure this is unrelated to our country because of a thing called poverty

In all capitalist countries you will find rich people, a bigger middle class and then a huge population that are poor.

That is what capitalism is all about.

"you want more?,produce more" That is the capitalist motto.

There are some poor people that became rich.

There are also some rich people that became poor.

That's life.

 

[SlinkyMike]

Could you explain what the situation of a minority in another country has anything to do with SA?

I think he is trying to underscore the concept of holding each other to a higher standard.
Minority or majority does not, I think, form part of his point.

Race issues aside: I think the comments about proper English are quite valid. It is possible to communicate very precisely in the language - if you use it correctly which sadly is seldom the case (globally).
True: it is a dynamic language but this dynamism applies to the times as in having new words to describe new things be they technological advances or social / political concepts.
It does not apply to where you were raised or what 'style' (or lack thereof) you conform to.

 

[sox63]

I think he is trying to underscore the concept of holding each other to a higher standard.
Minority or majority does not, I think, form part of his point.

Race issues aside: I think the comments about proper English are quite valid. It is possible to communicate very precisely in the language - if you use it correctly which sadly is seldom the case (globally).
True: it is a dynamic language but this dynamism applies to the times as in having new words to describe new things be they technological advances or social / political concepts.
It does not apply to where you were raised or what 'style' (or lack thereof) you conform to.

The language issue to me does not make any sense. More so to our country, there are Afrikaners that I have had as customers, that could only speak what can best be described as broken english and yet are quite successful.

I think we need to move past this attitude of if you speak english well you are intelligent.

 

[Albereth]

702 have a new advert read out by the presenters.

John Robbie calls it RO-BO Can.

Redi calls it ROB-O Can.

I get a very different image when I hear her version.

 

[chiskop]

I think we need to move past this attitude of if you speak english well you are intelligent.

Absolutely agreed. English is my first language and it take its proper use quite seriously. But it is a minority of people born in this country that have English as a first language - and I don't think it is reasonable to hold people who are using their second/third language to attempt to communicate with me in my first language, to the same standards I would expect (hope for) from first language speakers.

 

[SlinkyMike]

I think we need to move past this attitude of if you speak english well you are intelligent.

I disagree.

English is the international language, it is the language of commerce and generally the language of science. Good English is a direct reflection of ones ability to articulate ones self (ideas; concepts; needs etc.) in the world today.

Just because there may be non English speaking people who are intelligent is beside the point, that argument leads you down the 'types of intelligence' road which in turn leads to horoscopes, tarot and mood rings... its esoteric is what I am saying.

I know someone is going to pipe up about Mandarin being the most widely spoken language on the planet but the opposite is true, it is the most narrowly spoken language on the planet. The population density in those regions where it is spoken is not device by which to win this argument. That is an example of Non-Sequitur.

 

[chiskop]

I disagree.

English is the international language, it is the language of commerce and generally the language of science. Good English is a direct reflection of ones ability to articulate ones self (ideas; concepts; needs etc.) in the world today.

Just because there may be non English speaking people who are intelligent is beside the point, that argument leads you down the 'types of intelligence' road which in turn leads to horoscopes, tarot and mood rings... its esoteric is what I am saying.

What? Are you seriously equating intelligence with one's proficiency in English? Sorry - but thats crap.

There is a world of difference between allowing that people who speak languages other than English may also be smart and the "types of intelligence" argument you're advancing.

English is a medium of expression - nothing more or less. The choice of language is hardly an indicator of intelligence as you seem to be suggesting.

Interesting point about Mandarin - though I think you're playing with semantics.

 

[Piepalook]

What? Are you seriously equating intelligence with one's proficiency in English? Sorry - but thats crap.

There is a world of difference between allowing that people who speak languages other than English may also be smart and the "types of intelligence" argument you're advancing.

English is a medium of expression - nothing more or less. The choice of language is hardly an indicator of intelligence as you seem to be suggesting.

I agree.

There are a number of cultures that can speak 3 or 4 languages that have very low IQ's.

The number of languages spoken is no indication of IQ.

 

[chiskop]

I agree.

There are a number of cultures that can speak 3 or 4 languages that have very low IQ's.

The number of languages spoken is no indication of IQ.

That's not at all what I said.

I don't believe that the number of languages a person (or culture) speaks, has any correlation (positive or negative) with their intelligence.

 

[Piepalook]

That's not at all what I said.

True.
It is all i would like to comment on.

 

[sox63]

I disagree.

English is the international language, it is the language of commerce and generally the language of science. Good English is a direct reflection of ones ability to articulate ones self (ideas; concepts; needs etc.) in the world today.

I agree English is the language of business, however having a good command of the language does NOT make you intelligent. You may be able to articulate what you want to put across, however what you put across has to be backed up by actual knowledge.

 

[SlinkyMike]

English is a medium of expression - nothing more or less.

Interperative dance is a 'medium of expression'.
English is a language (as are other languages OBVIOUSLY) which is far more than a mere 'medium of expression'.

While I am willing to concede that intelligence is possible without English I would also like to focus the point I am making by saying that English speakers who do not use good English are buffoons.

On the subject of first / second languages: the developed world is primarily English (this is what I was saying in the commerce/science part of my post) so it follows that an intelligent individual would seek to understand and master the language.

So we find ourselves dancing very close to the 'nature/type of intelligence' issue which I pointed out in my first post.

 

[chiskop]

Interperative dance is a 'medium of expression'.
English is a language (as are other languages OBVIOUSLY) which is far more than a mere 'medium of expression'.

While I am willing to concede that intelligence is possible without English I would also like to focus the point I am making by saying that English speakers who do not use good English are buffoons.

I will agree that first-language English speakers who do not use good English are buffoons.

On the subject of first / second languages: the developed world is primarily English (this is what I was saying in the commerce/science part of my post) so it follows that an intelligent individual would seek to understand and master the language.

So we find ourselves dancing very close to the 'nature/type of intelligence' issue which I pointed out in my first post.

I think that you're being very general here. Italy, France, Germany etc are indisputably part of the developed world - whether learning/mastering English is an optimal choice will differ from individual to individual.

How are we dancing with the nature/type of intelligence now?

 

[Albereth]

The people he refers to in the article do have english as their first language.

 

[sox63]

The poeple he refers to in the article do have english as their first language.

I questioned how this applies to SA. And not the US.