I was just wondering............

waynegohl

waynegohl

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..........was there public participation when it came to putting up Toll Booths on various roads around the country?


..........are any political parties and entities (youth leagues/women's leagues), involved in the electricity issue in Jhb?

............do politicians listen to voters in this democratic country?
 
I think the answer to all 3 of your questions is mostly no....
 
Well, I never heard of any public hearings regardng the tolls. They brought it up yesterday on 702 also...and no one heard of public hearings. If there were, then it was kept secret and no one knew so no one attended. They speculating that the only people consulted was guavamint.

And no, I dont think the government does listen...why you think there is all these service delivery protests going on.
 
what a lovely democratic country we live in.

where there are real issues to be sorted out people in power turn a blind eye and don't respond and then turn around and think up some other issue to make a scene about.
 
When they build the Zambesi toll gate, it was done without public participation and without even permits. Only when people threatened to break down this illegal structure, did they suddenly produce permits. Some meeting with the public also took place shortly after that, but actually meant nothing, as everything was already decided.

So everybody that need to get onto the highway, coming from the northern suburbs, have to pay either R7, or R10 (not sure about that one, as I don't use the Doornpoort toll gate on the N4). So, I have been paying close to R400 monthly for the past few years. The new system, will add another burden on my finances that I can't afford.

Also, they started out with discounts for frequent travellers, but scrapped that last year. So everybody is paying the same now. The same might happen on the N1 toll too.
 
Democracy in our beautiful country is mostly lip service :(
 
A few years ago I also mentioned the public participation issue on this forum and also wondered if the halls are filled with YES men and if any public participation has lead to a rethink of an issue.
 
McT said:
Democracy in our beautiful country is mostly lip service :(
Click to expand...

Basic Education Minister Angie Motshekga, talking as leader of the ANCWL said that they cannot walk into a situation in this country and take over to sort things out because of RED TAPE, now thats the frikkin problem, there is too much red tape in a democratic country.
 
The problem with democracy is that you vote once every couple of years and for the interim, you do not have that much of a say vis a vis public participation.

In my ideal world, the govt should somehow ensure everyone in SA has a cellphone and then conduct quick polls, you know, press 1 if you agree and press 2 if you disagree :D ... totally oversimplified and loaded with the possibility of fraud, I know, but that it is quick and immediate interaction with your citizens when you want to make a decision !
 
I agree with you Blue, I wish there was a way to impliment a system like that.

BTW I heard that the taxi "industry" is going to be exempt from the tolls. I HATE the way this so called industry gets their own way every time - they pay neither VAT nor PAYE, I think they shoud pay MORE toll, not none.

I, personally, am hoping that the toll works and makes the highways empty for me to drive on!
 
blunomore said:
The problem with democracy is that you vote once every couple of years and for the interim, you do not have that much of a say vis a vis public participation.

In my ideal world, the govt should somehow ensure everyone in SA has a cellphone and then conduct quick polls, you know, press 1 if you agree and press 2 if you disagree :D ... totally oversimplified and loaded with the possibility of fraud, I know, but that it is quick and immediate interaction with your citizens when you want to make a decision !
Click to expand...

I've also wondered about a system like this one before. I see no reason why this won't work. Sounds like a brilliant idea to me and it will only become even more viable as technology and technological penetration improves in future.
I imagine someone like Mxit being easily capable to create a cross platform Mxit type application for this. And because it's text based it would use almost no bandwidth to vote.
And because if RICA a person's cellphone should already be linked to your ID No. etc. One cellhone number, one vote per issue. Faaark, why someone hasn't done something like this in any other country boggles the mind.

They could easily have a list of "issues" that they give the option to vore for and keep the list constantly updated within timeframes. (Say, a 3 month voting period for certain issues etc.)
 
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Captain Slog said:
I agree with you Blue, I wish there was a way to impliment a system like that.

BTW I heard that the taxi "industry" is going to be exempt from the tolls. I HATE the way this so called industry gets their own way every time - they pay neither VAT nor PAYE, I think they shoud pay MORE toll, not none.

I, personally, am hoping that the toll works and makes the highways empty for me to drive on!
Click to expand...

Will taxis be totally expempt? I heard that there is - or my be - a discount of up to 70% for them. Anyway, this is hearsay, so I am not sure what the fact are.

I think the reason why they pay almost no tax in any form is that they have not done any paperwork with SARS ... to get them on the system en masse ... either that or they dodge, or they just do not know how to do the necessary paperwork with SARS (that is no excuse, of course, they can use an accountant like the rest of us do!)
 
blunomore said:
Will taxis be totally expempt? I heard that there is - or my be - a discount of up to 70% for them. Anyway, this is hearsay, so I am not sure what the fact are.

I think the reason why they pay almost no tax in any form is that they have not done any paperwork with SARS ... to get them on the system en masse ... either that or they dodge, or they just do not know how to do the necessary paperwork with SARS (that is no excuse, of course, they can use an accountant like the rest of us do!)
Click to expand...

If they are registered (and I assume you have to be registered with SARS etc then too) as public transport they get 50% discount and a further 25% discount if they have an e-tag. Normal users will only get the 25% discount if they have an e-tag. If you buy an e-tag you get the full amount that you paid for the e-tag loaded on it. (So they want you to believe that the e-tag is actually free). I will probably get myself an e-tag, but I can make due with travelling only with the gautrain, unless they start tolling the N14 too.

Atleast this will force all the taxi's to be registered now.
 
How much tax does a pedestrian walking in the street pay the guavamint because it seems they have right of way in the roads?
 
5.80
Nod said:
When they build the Zambesi toll gate, it was done without public participation and without even permits. Only when people threatened to break down this illegal structure, did they suddenly produce permits. Some meeting with the public also took place shortly after that, but actually meant nothing, as everything was already decided.

So everybody that need to get onto the highway, coming from the northern suburbs, have to pay either R7, or R10 (not sure about that one, as I don't use the Doornpoort toll gate on the N4). So, I have been paying close to R400 monthly for the past few years. The new system, will add another burden on my finances that I can't afford.

Also, they started out with discounts for frequent travellers, but scrapped that last year. So everybody is paying the same now. The same might happen on the N1 toll too.
Click to expand...
 
@wayne, I read in the paper that they had a public participation process, but I tried to google it and couldn't find more information about this.
 
Heard on 702 that the tolls fees have been gazetted already so there might not be much that can be done to change them.
 
RaptorSA said:
I've also wondered about a system like this one before. I see no reason why this won't work. Sounds like a brilliant idea to me and it will only become even more viable as technology and technological penetration improves in future.
I imagine someone like Mxit being easily capable to create a cross platform Mxit type application for this. And because it's text based it would use almost no bandwidth to vote.
And because if RICA a person's cellphone should already be linked to your ID No. etc. One cellhone number, one vote per issue. Faaark, why someone hasn't done something like this in any other country boggles the mind.

They could easily have a list of "issues" that they give the option to vore for and keep the list constantly updated within timeframes. (Say, a 3 month voting period for certain issues etc.)
Click to expand...

Love the idea too, but I guess because it will be done remotely (i.e. they will not see you actually produce your ID and go into the booth to vote) the chances for fraud are too big in their opinion.

Am also surprised that no highly developed country have tried something like this.

Then again, politicians would not want to have citizens have TOO much of a say ;)
 
the freedom front are fighting this and have a petition going, problem its the freedom front...but their aim is to bring the rates down to I think it was R0.05 a km or R0.10 cant remember, but it is online.

Ahhh I used the google and found it:

The petition can be signed at any of the following two web-page addresses:
www.tolhekpetisie.org.za <http://www.tolhekpetisie.org.za/> ; and www.tollgatepetition.org.za <http://www.tollgatepetition.org.za/>
 
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