IAAF new ruling will affect Caster

Prof Steve Cornelius has resigned as a member of the IAAF disciplinary tribunal in protest against the new rule.

According to Team SA‚ Cornelius penned a letter to the president of the IAAF‚ citing his reasons for stepping down.

"On deep moral grounds‚ I cannot see myself part of a system in which I may be called upon to apply regulations which I deem to be fundamentally flawed and most likely unlawful in various jurisdictions around the globe‚" Cornelius said in the letter.

"It would also be unethical for me to devote time and energy to expose the warped ideology behind the new regulations while serving on the disciplinary tribunal.

"It was at first an honour to be appointed to the IAAF tribunal‚ but sadly I cannot‚ with good conscience‚ continue to associate myself with an organisation that insists on ostracising specific individuals‚ all of them female‚ for no reason other than being what they are born to be.

"The adoption of the new eligibility regulations for female classification is based on the same kind of ideology that has led to some of the worse injustices and atrocities in the history of our planet."
Click to expand...
https://www.businesslive.co.za/bd/s...r-defiance-about-iaaf-ruling-on-testosterone/
 
Cray said:
Strange that for all the claims of Caster's testosterone being "on par" with a mans, for all the advantages that supposedly gives her. she is no where close to being competitive with elite male athletes.
Click to expand...

So lets take that argument to its logical conclusion. Lets use the SJW rules and allow athletes to compete in whatever event they identify as. This means that an NCAA Division III level male athlete who would never be able to win a gold in the "mens" race can simply call themselves a woman. Since it is unethical to use anything else other than what the athlete feels for this event eventually the "womans" event would not have any biological woman in it as they would all be pushed out by men.

The moment you create two different groups, you make the need for a fair way of telling who can race in what group.
 
Cray said:
https://deadspin.com/the-only-point-of-track-s-dumb-new-testosterone-rules-i-1825546141



Strange that for all the claims of Caster's testosterone being "on par" with a mans, for all the advantages that supposedly gives her. she is no where close to being competitive with elite male athletes.
Click to expand...

Exactly the point isn't it.

Men with natural levels of 7 as an example can barely run 100m. Not every man is a runner, or sprinter. Just like her, she's not a good athlete if she was to part take against other similar athletes. She is way above average for a woman though. Point still stands, even if they remove her testosterone now, she already has the advantage and will continue to have it for years to come. What's the issue with forcing such a rule?
 
C4Cat said:
The advantage isn't even that big. This sums it up:

https://www.wired.com/story/testosterone-ruling-for-athletes-fuels-debate-over-natural-ability/

If her testosterone level made such a big difference as you say, and gave her such a big advantage then she should be able to compete with men, but that's clearly not the case. It's a slight advantage (if any) much like being taller or being double jointed or having unusual body proportions like Phelps
Click to expand...

Her testosterone levels being reduced can cut her times by up to 8% I also heard some here. That is a HUGE DIFFERENCE! that is a coupled of seconds...
 
Pitbull said:
Best I could find now as all pages on Google is flooded with this new changes :o

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/04/26/...igibility-regulations-testosterone/index.html


Going by this: 5 is above average for a female. Caster even exceeds that, so it does put her with in male range and the reason for the change.

Just listening to her speak it's obviously clear she's got insane amounts of testosterone in her body. Her voice is deeper than most men I know and she shaves :D
Click to expand...

its clearly a man, and unfortunately the IAAF had to step in and put very bad rules in place to prevent cheats.
unfortunately our local athletic body the ASA does not see it in this way, and keeps pushing this "ladyboy" into events, where he/she/it have a advantage,

very bad situation, but one has to ask, what would have changed if caster was white? would ASA have withdrawn her previously.
without all the noise and drama?

I think ASA playing their own game here, IE if the IAAF withdraws caster its "racism""

so the IAAF are Racist, and are evil, due to them trying to desperately protect the sport from drugs and cheats.
 
konfab said:
So lets take that argument to its logical conclusion. Lets use the SJW rules and allow athletes to compete in whatever event they identify as. This means that an NCAA Division III level male athlete who would never be able to win a gold in the "mens" race can simply call themselves a woman. Since it is unethical to use anything else other than what the athlete feels for this event eventually the "womans" event would not have any biological woman in it as they would all be pushed out by men.
Click to expand...

I never suggested going the "what people identify as" route, that New Zealand weightlifter being allowed to compete as a woman is bollocks in my opinion. What I do say is that testosterone alone
doesn't tell the whole story..


konfab said:
The moment you create two different groups, you make the need for a fair way of telling who can race in what group.
Click to expand...

I fully agree, but am saying that Pitbull's statement that Semenya is essentially "running in a mans body" is more that a little silly as all of that testosterone hasn't made her competitive in terms of men's times. Am all for drawing a line in the sand, but I disagree that testosterone is a good way of drawing that line..
 
Nerfherder said:
Elevated testosterone does not make you a man.
Click to expand...

She doesn't have a dick, sure. Biologically she's not a man, she does have the same strength and natural testosterone as a man, even more than an average man going by Cray's post. That means she should not be able to compete against females. I can't see how you guys can't see this. I'm pretty dumb struck by it. Leave your Social views out for a second and try and justify how it's even remotely fair to have a "man" compete against a female.

Imagine Ronda Rousey in a cage with McGreggory...
 
konfab said:
I concur with the professor, we should not be using biology to make decisions. Every decision must be made according to feelings.
Click to expand...

The problem is that here they are basing the rule on feelings, rather than biology. They are targeting a specific individual. If you want to use natural levels of various chemicals in the body to restrict entrants then it must apply to everyone, in every event, and every chemical shown to have an effect must be included. It must also apply to other biological advantages - the genetics of long distance runners from East African countries, for example, which clearly gives them a competitive advantage. The unusual body of Phelps which gives him a swimming advantage, etc. Where do you draw the line. Should all entrants be the same height, same leg length, same weight, etc. At what point does a natural biological advantage become a problem?
 
eg2505 said:
its clearly a man, and unfortunately the IAAF had to step in and put very bad rules in place to prevent cheats.
unfortunately our local athletic body the ASA does not see it in this way, and keeps pushing this "ladyboy" into events, where he/she/it have a advantage,

very bad situation, but one has to ask, what would have changed if caster was white? would ASA have withdrawn her previously.
without all the noise and drama?

I think ASA playing their own game here, IE if the IAAF withdraws caster its "racism""

so the IAAF are Racist, and are evil, due to them trying to desperately protect the sport from drugs and cheats.
Click to expand...
Probably wouldn't be an issue at all, would never have been brought up...
 
Pitbull said:
Her testosterone levels being reduced can cut her times by up to 8% I also heard some here. That is a HUGE DIFFERENCE! that is a coupled of seconds...
Click to expand...

Source? You give a lot of numbers without backing them up. 1.18 seconds, or 1 percent faster than the runner-up is given in the article.
 
Cray said:
I never suggested going the "what people identify as" route, that New Zealand weightlifter being allowed to compete as a woman is bollocks in my opinion. What I do say is that testosterone alone
doesn't tell the whole story..
Click to expand...

Agreed, but if you have an issue with the man competing against women in weightlifting, then the issue is Testosterone :o Soo how this works. There is more to it than the biological features of a person. She doesn't have a Pecker, but she has testis. This is obviously more than just a female, right? Super female maybe, still doesn't make it fair.

Again, I have nothing against Caster, she's accomplished amazing things. And she's an amazingly super woman. Fact is, it's not fair for her to compete against 100% natural women.
 
C4Cat said:
Source? Have give a lot of numbers without backing them up. 1.18 seconds, or 1 percent faster than the runner-up is given in the article.
Click to expand...

Sigh... let me find it...

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/ot...ew-classification-after-iaaf-ruling-1.3473757
“The significant over-representation of DSD athletes in certain events, and their success in those events, provides further indirect but strong corroboration of the above. In addition, the IAAF has gathered observational data about the difference in performance levels of DSD athletes depending on whether or not their testosterone levels are suppressed, including data showing that suppression of the levels of circulating testosterone of three DSD athletes from 21-25 nmol/L to below 2 nmol/L coincided with their performances decreasing by an average of 5.7%.
Click to expand...

Seems like it's even worse - 7 SECONDS slower

https://www.sport24.co.za/OtherSpor...-rules-would-see-semenya-finish-last-20180426
Cape Town - South Africa's Olympic 800m champion Caster Semenya could run up to seven seconds slower under new rules requiring her to lower her natural testosterone levels to race internationally, a prominent sports scientist has predicted.
Click to expand...

Anything else you want me to find a source for you on C4Cat?
 
Last edited:
Cray said:
Am all for drawing a line in the sand, but I disagree that testosterone is a good way of drawing that line..
Click to expand...

I can agree with that, using a multivariable analysis is fine IMO. The comparison through should be made with the other athletes in each group though, and it should only apply in cases where chromosomal testing doesn't yield a result.
 
Pitbull said:
She doesn't have a dick, sure. Biologically she's not a man, she does have the same strength and natural testosterone as a man, even more than an average man going by Cray's post. That means she should not be able to compete against females. I can't see how you guys can't see this. I'm pretty dumb struck by it. Leave your Social views out for a second and try and justify how it's even remotely fair to have a "man" compete against a female.

Imagine Ronda Rousey in a cage with McGreggory...
Click to expand...

Its not like that at all.

She is not any more elevated than the other woman champions. They have made this legislation to exclude her. Its not a social view at all.
 
Nerfherder said:
Its not like that at all.

She is not any more elevated than the other woman champions. They have made this legislation to exclude her. Its not a social view at all.
Click to expand...

If you read some of my quotes you will realize you're wrong. It's not to exclude her. It's exclude everyone that has elevated Testosterone levels... Where does it say it only applies to Caster?
 
Pitbull said:
Sigh... let me find it...

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/ot...ew-classification-after-iaaf-ruling-1.3473757


Seems like it's even worse - 7 SECONDS slower

https://www.sport24.co.za/OtherSpor...-rules-would-see-semenya-finish-last-20180426


Anything else you want me to find a source for you on C4Cat?
Click to expand...
You should always provide a source when making factual claims Pitbull, that's a given, not just for me specifically. So basically they want to handicap a competitor who is naturally stronger to make it apparently more 'fair' for the others. Sure...
 
Pitbull said:
If you read some of my quotes you will realize you're wrong. It's not to exclude her. It's exclude everyone that has elevated Testosterone levels... Where does it say it only applies to Caster?
Click to expand...

It only applies to events she competes in, despite the findings showing the biggest differences occur in other events. How does that make sense?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top
Sign up to the MyBroadband newsletter
X