ICASA Complaint: Your feedback needed

Hi guys/gals,

Im not too sure if t.v advertising is relevant, and can't actually remember if Telkom broadcast an ad for ADSL in the early days, but what I'm saying is that the S.A.B.C (I think) keeps an archive of every single T.V and Radio ad ever broadcast in South Africa, and im pretty sure that somewhere, someone is keeping an archive of print ad's.

This could be an invaluable source of info about how Telkom's gone about advertising ADSL. In terms of the initial offering as well as when they changed their tune about it being "throttled" bla. bla.

Just thought I'd help out.

Have a great weekend all!!

Whoop Di Doo Basil...But What Does It All Mean???
 
We can consult their ad agency about print ads, everything is archived.

<font color="navy"><font size="1"><b>Where others have progress, we have Telkom.</b>
Hellkom website - http://telkomsucks.0catch.com</font id="size1"></font id="navy">
 
We can do that, but im pretty sure that they (telkom) will try their best to stop them giving us that kind of info. Just a thought.

Whoop Di Doo Basil...But What Does It All Mean???
 
I do remember there were a bunch of media releases that ITWeb had, one could just search their site where Telkom are quoted frequently.

- Colin Alston
colin at alston dot za dot org

"Getting traffic shaping right is easy and can be summed up in one word: Dont." -- George Barnett
 
http://www.itweb.co.za/sections/internet/2002/0208301237.asp?S=Telecoms&A=TEL&O=FRGN
http://www.itweb.co.za/sections/features/adsl/feature030324-2.asp?S=Internet&A=INT&O=FRGN
http://www.itweb.co.za/sections/features/broadband/feature010625-7.asp
http://www.itweb.co.za/sections/features/broadband/feature010625-8.asp

http://www.itweb.co.za/sections/columnists/doubletake/burrows020904.asp?S=Telecoms&A=TEL&O=FRGN
"Those who do get a line, face a maximum data limit of 3GB a month, even though that is not supposed to be enforced at first."

http://www.itweb.co.za/sections/telecoms/2002/0208281224.asp?S=Internet&A=INT&O=FRGN
"Those who do get a line face a maximum data limit of 3GB, but <b>Telkom says it will take no immediate action against customers who download more data</b>. If “rogue users” turn out to be a problem, as they have elsewhere in the world, threshold billing will be introduced, it says."

http://www.itweb.co.za/sections/telecoms/2002/0206061148.asp?S=Business&A=BUS&O=FRGN
According to this in 2002, on ICASA instruction.
"Telkom is to introduce “Internet packages” before the end of this year. Details are still to be worked out, but these packages are to make it cheaper to use a dial-up Internet connection."
Instead R7 call is now R8 call, various rip off (SurfMore) packages have been introduced which simply increase costs to access time, on the back of much inflated phone call costs.

http://www.itweb.co.za/sections/telecoms/2002/0208300830.asp
No mention of capping or port prioritization.

http://www.itweb.co.za/sections/telecoms/2003/0302241155.asp?S=Internet&A=INT&O=FRGN
"“ADSL as offered in SA is a product clearly designed not to be purchased,” he says. “It is a truly Third World offer.”"
I LOVE IT!! HAHAHA

- Colin Alston
colin at alston dot za dot org

"Getting traffic shaping right is easy and can be summed up in one word: Dont." -- George Barnett
 
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">ADSL as offered in SA is a product clearly designed not to be purchased,” he says. “It is a truly Third World offer<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Lol, thats really it in a nutshell.

Telkom - South Africa's Handbrake to progress.
 
I guess the problem with telkoms stratagy against P2P software (which is understandable as it creates a big issue for ISP's) is that they simply deprioritise *all* ports and only prioritise mail, www and ftp ports. The problem is that P2P software uses random ports - thus this screwes up gaming in a big way as they use ports in the same range as p2p uses.

There is no real way to prevent people from using P2P software, other than proactivly tracking down its use. Then again, if you're paying for a 512K line why cant you use it fully? Its only because of their rediculous oversell (contention) ratio that it creates a problem for them.

The other thing I cant understand (and I submited this in a letter to ICASA already) is that its laughable for Telkom to say that local bandwidth is expensive, they are the ones supplying it and charging high costs for it! Nothing stops them if they laid a single cable they could carry about 100Gbps of bandwidth.

- Colin Alston
colin at alston dot za dot org

"Getting traffic shaping right is easy and can be summed up in one word: Dont." -- George Barnett
 
Hi folks

Thanks a bunch for all the feedback. I have sent through all the details to ICASA and we should hear back from them in the next couple of weeks. Your input is greatly appreciated, especially since it will be entered as individual user’s experiences and ideas regarding the service. I think it might just make a difference in the end.

Regards,

RPM
[email protected]
 
There is some information on the Telkom Internet website about port prioritisation. My understanding, which maay be wrong, is that port prioritisation is purely related to bandwidth allocation in the general ADSL bandwidth pool to different ports. Some ports are completely blocked (e.g. gaming) - this is according to a product manager from Telkom.

On a general note regarding the complaint. It will be well worth looking at the S53 complaint, which was filed by ISPA, regarding ADSL. This may give some pointers. You should be able to get this from the ICASA library.

Regarding the pricing of Telkom's ADSL service, they are half right about the pricing of international bandwidth. What you need to investigate is how an international circuit, say between Johannesburg and London, is priced (on SAT-3). This will give you an idea of the costing to which ISPs other than Telkom are subject, since Telkom internet does not really pay for its bandwidth.

To understand a bit better how bandwidth in SAT-3 is priced, take a look at the following page:
http://www.ee.co.za/VectorForum/~forum.asp?action=view&primaryKey=421

Note also this quote from the above:
Edwin Thompson, UUNET:
We believe that the prices currently charged by Telkom, who has exclusive landing rights, are inflated and do not compare to the foreign half circuit costs for the equivalent capacity

Essentially, what is being outlined here is that Telkom charges much more (a multiple) for the SA half circuit, compared to what the overseas telco (like AT&T or BT) is charging for the remote half-circuit, in the self same cable.



Based on the current pricing regime, which Telkom is offering for ADSL Internet access, some major ISPs found, last year, that it would be impossible for them to offer, at the same quality of service, a service, which could compete with Telkom's on price, without losing lots of money.

What needs to be understood, if we compare the cost of ADSL Internet access in SA to a similar service overseas, is that given Telkom's leased line tariffs, an ISP cannot deliver a service at a comparable price to an overseas service. ISPs, when they build a network, are reliant on Telkom's Diginet/Martis services to provision circuits to carry traffic. The tariffing of these services is such that an Internet access service cannot be delivered at a similar price to a service provided overseas. Put simply, Telkom's Martis/Diginet and IPLS tariffs are not cost-related.

If and when other ISPs offer a service to compete with Telkom's current service, it will probably be subject to similar capping and port prioritisation, as ISPs would just not be able to afford the bandwidth to feed users.

Everyone needs to understand that the only way to address this issue is to ensure that the pricing of the underlying facilities, purchased by ISPs must be reduced.

One other point, which needs to be remembered, regarding the pricing of ADSL Internet access is that Internet Access is a VANs service, and not a PSTS service. Thus, pricing is not subject to tariffs.

Regarding ICASA - remember that ICASA is not staffed by technical experts. Bear with them, and help them. They are trying their best, but often need some help.
 
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Brian Neilson, BMI-T:
There are two sides to this argument.
Telkom was the investor in SAT-3. Therefore as a commercial organisation, it should have the right to recoup this investment and get an ROI over a period of time. However, the length of time for the ROI could for instance be dictated by the Competition Commission. Instead of for example, a 5-year period. This could be extended to say 15 - 20 years. Telkom may have a more difficult time to arrive at a budgeted ROI in an increasingly competitive environment over a longer period of time, but the country would benefit through lower tariffs in the meantime.
The good of the national economy should take priority, especially as Telkom was still a majority state-owned entity (and did not pay taxes) when it committed funds to the SAT-3 cable. That is, Telkom was in a privileged position to invest - thanks to the SA nation as a whole. But now, it appears to be the only entity reaping benefits from this investment. The Competition Commission should, therefore, regulate the resale of SAT-3 bandwidth, in order to force down prices of bandwidth to more reasonable levels, and use this capacity as a driver for the national economy.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

This has been basically my argument all the time. Telkom bought into the SAT3 and should be able to recoup its investment, but remember that Telkom did this at the time when it was still a state run entity. Thus SAT3, was basically a public investment and should be shared with the SNO or whoever else needs to connect to it at the cost of the initial investment in SAT3 and not at Telkom's own pricing or rationing. This would be fair and would spur competition in the market and help the SA economy. The state has the ability to make this happen as the major shareholder and ICASA should recommend it. It would also make the SNO more viable up front.
Telkom always forgets who put them on the map and should be reminded often as they think telecommunications in SA is their own fiefdom.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Brian Neilson, BMI-T:
I think affordable international broadband in SA is a reality within the medium term. The SNO and Sentech will offer capacity, independently from Telkom (the SNO possibly even directly on the SAT-3 cable through Telecom Namibia), and will presumably expand their current bandwidth capacity to cater for future demand. Telkom's prices will come down, due to the competitive environment (other players will have their own competing capacity and will not have to rely on Telkom's bandwidth only) and as Telkom achieves its ROI over the next few years. Even international bandwidth will become a commodity in the medium-term future, and competition will shift to services (bundled services, in which bandwidth will be tossed in for very little).
SA has enough bandwidth (both domestically and internationally) - and will have even more, once SNO is launched - for smooth data communications. Telkom's rationing out of bandwidth and high prices is what limits bandwidth usage in SA. The SAT-3 capacity can be expanded further through technologies such as DWDM. Therefore we should have sufficient capacity for at least the next decade.
Linking to international sites on the Internet is horribly slow and all the benefits of ADSL are vapourised. Only by linking to "big local sites" does ADSL yield anything near to its 512 kbps download speed. On numerous occasions I have complained only to be told that to protect Telkom from "ADSL abuse" the ADSL international pipe is small....to protect it not eating into T1 line revenue. I have seen piles of correspondence aimed at getting Telkom to lift restrictions, to no avail.
As CommuniTel has Namibia Telecoms in its consortium if it becomes the SEP, the SNO should be able to use their SAT3 connection to get "near broadband". Unlike elsewhere in the world that has a glut of bandwidth, SA has too little, and especially so when "rationed" out by Telkom.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

This man knows what he is talking about. MyADSL could benefit from his input.



<b><hr noshade size="1"></b><font size="2"><font color="red"><b>You can take Telkom out of the Post Office but you can't take the Post Office out of Telkom.</b></font id="red"></font id="size2">
 
Cant wait till the new Telcomuncations company comes ... :) but i think ill be dead before they come
 
rpm, any more correspondence from ICASA as yet?

<font color="navy"><font size="1"><b>Where others have progress, we have Telkom.</b>
Hellkom website - http://telkomsucks.0catch.com</font id="size1"></font id="navy">
 
Hi MaD

I have sent Dianne all the details, but from here ICASA will take the matter further internally. They are not willing to divulge any public information. We should hear from them within the next few weeks, and I will let you know as soon as I get any correspondence.

Regards,

RPM
[email protected]
 
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> Cant wait till the new Telcomuncations company comes ... :) but i think ill be dead before they come<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Agreed. We are all hopeful. I just hope it's in my lifetime too.

<b><hr noshade size="1"></b><font size="2"><font color="red"><b>You can take Telkom out of the Post Office but you can't take the Post Office out of Telkom.</b></font id="red"></font id="size2">
 
and then it all ends in some secret out of court setlement and fades from public view

Why cant we know whats going on! People deserve to see these procedings and understand how Telkom is ripping them off.

- Colin Alston
colin at alston dot za dot org

"Getting traffic shaping right is easy and can be summed up in one word: Dont." -- George Barnett
 
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