ICASA: Monday 18 April

First of all thanks so lot Morebroadband!!!

I am asking myself...how those people from Telkom justify their salaries. ICASA should oblige them to bring money instead of earning some.
Their submission was nothing more then complete rubbish and must be dismissed from ICASA.
I remember in Germany, only when these old ****heads were kicked out, German Telekom started to act like a decent company. Same applies to here as well.

Telkom remember!!! You are here to serve us, not the opposite!!!
 
Last edited:
morebroadband said:
2 Dynamic VS Static IP addresses. Another loud call for static IP, and when Telkom were asked WHY they went the route of dynamic IP, the speaker confirmed that they could get more revenue out of the Diginet service, even though it is an older technology!

Which speaker? Telkom or ICASA? I pointed this out in my presentation. Was it Telkom that admitted this?
 
Static IP.

Im my own submission on the 15th of April 2005 to ICASA, it had this to say.

Furthermore, why does Telkom detract from not offering Static IP’s for ADSL. Telkom would have you believe that we as consumers should use Dynamic IP’s for our own good so as to avoid hackers. This is absurd. Telkom are merely protecting their lucrative Diginet Business, which is based on a fixed IP. The Diginet Pool would migrate to ADSL if they knew they could purchase ADSL with a fixed IP.

Every 24 hours the IP’s for ADSL are reset by Telkom no matter what you are doing. Any files you might have been downloading are suddenly lost and any game you were playing online is suddenly cut off. At this point in time as your IP is changed, you are now open to threats from the person that was on your new IP. And who knows where he/she could have been on the internet at the time?
Yet we are forced to accept this as a service.
 
Last edited:
BTTB,

Yes it was a rep from Telkom (Marketing Dept.) and once again I don't believe he meant for it to come out this way, but it did.
 
In addition the lady from Telkom did state that Telkom was looking into offering a Static IP product but that they believed this would only be available next year.

- (Just in time to compete with SNO who will without a doubt offer this!)

My personal opinion is that Telkom were caught unaware as to how much 'noise' was made about the Dynamic/Static IP address issue. They must just believe that Joe Public will continue to bend over and take it any which way it is given, until RPM & Company started this whole ball rolling. I would love to think there will be a few sleepless nights at the Telkom building until ICASA draw their conclusions.

As stated before if there is no major changes, then we should take to the streets and really show them how powerful MYADSL and consumer rights are!
 
morebroadband said:
In addition the lady from Telkom did state that Telkom was looking into offering a Static IP product but that they believed this would only be available next year.

- (Just in time to compete with SNO who will without a doubt offer this!)

My personal opinion is that Telkom were caught unaware as to how much 'noise' was made about the Dynamic/Static IP address issue. They must just believe that Joe Public will continue to bend over and take it any which way it is given, until RPM & Company started this whole ball rolling. I would love to think there will be a few sleepless nights at the Telkom building until ICASA draw their conclusions.

As stated before if there is no major changes, then we should take to the streets and really show them how powerful MYADSL and consumer rights are!


well said.....

btw. I need somebody pushing my wheelchair when we are going on the street!!!!
 
BTTB, Yes it was a rep from Telkom (Marketing Dept.) and once again I don't believe he meant for it to come out this way, but it did.

Well I am glad it did in his case.
The truth cannot be avoided.

One of the problems of telling lies is you get caught out. Courts of Law to point.
Be careful what you say, it can turn around and bite you.
 
Last edited:
Kaspaas,

Quite a lot was said about this. Not just SLA but QOS too. Mweb stated that they could not offer any QoS in the current state of affairs as Telkom are in total control.

There were quite a few questions from the panel directed at all the speakers regarding this. I sensed that the panel were using the presentations from last week, and the most relevant points brought up in those presentations to draft new questions. I personally think this is great testament to the weight the previous speakers had on the panel.

Unfortunalty I never took decent notes at this time as I had become rather annoyed! I believe some members of the public were recording the hearing today, as I spotted a few MP3 recorders. Hopefully they will post this on the web?
 
Celemasiko said:
Telkom remember!!! You are here to serve us, not the opposite!!!

Hmm, this is not strictly true. Due to the crass stupidity of privatising a state-run monopoly, Telkom now serves its shareholders, and, of course, its management's share option scheme.

Hopefully, via ICASA, we can get to a situation of: The State giveth, and the State taketh away.
 
Celemasiko said:
well said.....

btw. I need somebody pushing my wheelchair when we are going on the street!!!!

Hopefuly you will have sold it by then :) but you can count on me to help carry your bed. Let's show them unity.
 
caroper said:
Hopefuly you will have sold it by then :) but you can count on me to help carry your bed. Let's show them unity.

I have one manual wheelchair left, so this one is to push...*ggg*
 
Hi all,

Today I attended the final day of the ICASA public hearings. I got there late in the morning and so only heard half of Mweb’s presentation. This was followed by Telkom’s rebuttal to the issues raised over the past few days. The ICASA panal then asked Telkom questions, followed by questions to Telkom from the audience.

I just thought I’d give a brief overview of my impressions. Please note that these are MY impressions from what I saw, and it is likely that others have different opinions. Please don’t attack me for MY opinions, though if you were there and have different impressions then I’d like to hear on what points you disagree with me and why.

To me, Telkom’s attempted rebuttals came across very poorly. They did not answer a number of questions, saying that these were technical questions and since the Telkom representatives are not engineers, they are not equipped to answer. ICASA did not let this go, and repeatedly had to request that Telkom furbish ICASA with the relevant information soon.

As could be expected, Telkom also tried to fob off some questions by talking, but not actually addressing the questions at hand. In this regard, I personally think the ICASA Chairwoman did a sterling job. On a number of issues that Telkom talked around without actually answering the question, she refused to continue until Telkom gave a more satisfactory answer. The Chair was particularly pushy towards Telkom on the issue of the R86 additional phone line rental. However, there was some ‘fobbing off’ that Telkom got away with.

The ICASA panel put some excellent questions to Telkom. To me, it seems that the public submissions were very well examined by ICASA. The panel seemed well informed about the issues the public has with ADSL. Furthermore, they seemed very competent and capable of ‘seeing through’ Telkom’s rhetoric, and challenged Telkom in this respect.

BTTB, your presentation was raised several times by ICASA, especially with regard to the Diginet comments made on your behalf. It seems your presentation must have had quite an impact on the ICASA panel – Cara obviously did an excellent job in bringing your points across. Rpm’s presentation was also raised a number of times during the concluding discussions. And, like BTTB, it is clear his presentation was rather influential.

Telkom provided ICASA with the Markinor survey, and the ICASA chair then read out a couple of methodological facts on this survey. I thought many would like to know what was said – The Markinor survey was conducted in October 2003, and at the time Telkom says they had about 30 000 ADSL customers. 759 ADSL customers were surveyed, about half were residential users (370), about half were business users. 87% were said to be satisfied with the service. This is all the information that was released. I later approached the ICASA Chairwoman and asked for additional information. She said she had not read what degree of privacy Telkom had requested on the Markinor survey, but that she would read and if there were no requests for privacy or no grounds for confidentiality, then this Markinor report would be made available on the ICASA website within the next few weeks.

The issue of static IPs was also prominent. A MyAdsl user (sorry, didn’t get his name) pinned Telkom VERY nicely on this issue. He basically made ICASA and the audience see that Telkom had no good justification for not providing static IPs, and that it was simply a clear example of Telkom’s abusive mentality. Well done!!!!

One thing did concern me though – Telkom claimed to have engaged extensively with rpm, even saying that part of the engagement with him was conducted through letters. Whether this is true or not, I do not know. What did annoy me though was the suggestion that rpm had not been entirely honest with ICASA over the extent to which Telkom had engaged on a personal level with rpm. Furthermore, Telkom used this opportunity to imply (note, they did NOT directly say, but they IMPLIED) that Telkom had engaged with the users of the MyAdsl forum. Check the transcripts to see what was said.

The Tarifica Report also came up. There seemed to be a lot of confusion on this issue, confusion that Telkom perpetuated. They simultaneously acknowledged the existence of the Tarifica report and denied knowledge that it existed. When they were claiming it existed, Telkom went to great lengths to point out that this was an independent report which had nothing to do with Telkom and that Telkom had not commissioned it. When ICASA requested a copy of the Tarifica Report, Telkom said they didn’t know if it existed. I added my two cents on this issue. I tried to clarify for ICASA and the audience that the Tarifica Report in question DID exist, and whilst Tarifica was not contracted per se by Telkom, Telkom PAID Tarifica to do extra analysis on their behalf, so in this way it cannot be considered an independent report. I further added that Telkom’s above comments on the Tarifica Report were a “deliberate attempt by Telkom to mislead” the ICASA panel as well as the audience. Telkom did not take kindly to my comments. They confirmed that Telkom had paid Tarifica money for extra analysis, but said that they “totally reject” my statement that Telkom was misleading those present.

Overall, from the few hours I was there, my impression is that ICASA did an excellent job. They could have held Telkom more accountable and requested further clarification on some points, but overall I was happy with what I saw from the ICASA panel. I think Telkom came out looking very very very bad. It seemed to me that Telkom ‘can run but they can’t hide’ – and that the ICASA hearing provided a good example that Telkom’s actions are catching up with them.

Debbie2

Edit: I wrote this post this afternoon while offline (can't afford to be online during the day) and only posted it this evening. As a result, I repeated much of what morebroadband said - but this is good because it seems we got very similar impressions. I also want to add that an issue that repeatedly came up was the lack of transparency from Telkom - again and again this was revisited. Wash, rinse, repeat indeed!
 
Last edited:
Nice one Debbie!

I said the following at ICASA last (regarding Diginet and other old tech) Wednesday and I am glad we all hammered this issue amongst others. Repetition, repetition, repitition. Can only be good... Like washing your hair... Rinse, lather, repeat....

-----------------
To protect this market ADSL is forced to use dynamic IP addresses. There are certain advantages to having dynamic IP addresses on a service like ADSL. It protects against hacking and massive virus attacks because addresses for specific computers (or targets) change regularly. There is however not much of a cost involved in giving those that require a fixed IP address with one. ISP accounts offering single fixed IP’s are now available but at astronomical cost. More than a thousand Rand for a fixed IP account. Because the total costs of alternative connection services are so sketchy at best it is really difficult to make a conclusive comparison without either buying it yourself or relying on others. ICASA is in a better position than me to fish out how and why Telkom cripples its new services in order not to let the new services eat away more profitable old services.

-----------------------------

Cheers
Antowan
 
Thanks Debbie2.

I am glad I did something for ADSL in South Africa.

To be quite honest, up until last week, I was getting a bit de-motivated.
How long can you flog a dead horse, sort of situation?
The latest events have inspired me again.
 
adlo said:
Debbie2,

I like the way you slammed the Tarifica report. :)

They seem to use all rpm's previous correspondence with them as proof that they have been working with the adsl user community. The is a bunch of cr@p and rpm must sort it out.

Well done!

I am sure RPM will give clarity on this.
As far as I am aware, nothing significant is to be read out of anything Telkom might have told RPM. The most significant thing was the launch of the 386KB and 192KB services which I think RPM had privy information, perhaps a day or so before the rest of us.

And to be quite frank, the 386KB Service is basically the same as the 512KB service at a cheaper Rental if you analyse it.
As I stated in my presentation and I quote, "One can summarise and search google as to what the definition of broadband is, but what we have in South Africa is not broadband, whatever Telkom wishes us to believe. South Africa must be the only country in the world that started with a 512KB connection and then went backwards to 386KB and now 192KB."

The only difference being the cheaper rental.
It did help a little and was probably instrumental in attracting another 10 or 20 thousand customers. So goodie for Telkom.
If Telkom actually heard anything we had to say on MyADSL, they certainly just went ahead and did their own thing anyway.
The 192KB service is like having 24/7 Dial Up with a Cap.
Hardly broadband in the true sense of the word?
 
Last edited:
Debbie 2,

It seems you took better notes than I did. Thanks for standing up to them re-the report. For those who were not there, Debbie were the first to question Telkom once the floor was opened up, and you set the Platform that the public were not going to take any more of Telkom's crap.

Thanks again, and great feedback.
 
morebroadband said:
Debbie 2,

It seems you took better notes than I did. Thanks for standing up to them re-the report. For those who were not there, Debbie were the first to question Telkom once the floor was opened up, and you set the Platform that the public were not going to take any more of Telkom's crap.

Yeah I probably got a bit too emotional - I wish you could have seen that blond Telkom woman's face - she was SCOWLING like George Bush did in the first presidential debate. Had this look as if to say, "and now, wtf you doing??"

I unfortunately didn't take written notes - didn't bring paper. But I did scramble when ICASA started talking about the Markinor survey - wrote this info down on my hand.

There was so much more I wanted to say, but since it was the only day i attended, I didnt know if what I wanted to say had already been said :(
 
Top
Sign up to the MyBroadband newsletter
X