Immigrating to the UK

signates

Expert Member
Joined
Dec 8, 2009
Messages
4,469
#1
My wife has finally agreed to actively look for opportunities in the UK after I've been trying to convince her for a good few years. The only reason why she finally agreed was that she does not want to have any regrets later in life if we do not even try.

There are however a few concerns that we have. We are 41 and 42. Have we left it too late?

My wife was born in the UK and qualifies for a British Passport. She moved back to SA with her family when she was 4. We have tried to get a passport for her but could not complete the process as we could not provide a copy of her father's unabridged SA birth certificate. Both her parent were born in SA but also had UK passports. We did get a Certificate of Entitlement to Right of Abode which was placed in her South African passport. This expired when her South African Passport expired so we are applying for a new one to be placed in her current SA passport. The Certificate of Entitlement is basically a visa in a non UK passport confirming her UK citizenship. The cost is about R8k. When she is in the UK she can apply for a British Passport without needing to supply her parents birth certificate and only her full UK birth certificate which I already obtained through the GRO website.

I will be applying for a Spousal Visa which costs about R29k.

There is a possibility that her current employer can transfer her to their UK office based in Essex but this is not guaranteed. It would be better if we can get the transfer from her employer but we will be going irrespective.

Our other bigger issue is our 8 year old son who has been placed with us in foster care since he was 3. He was abandoned at birth and was in a children's home. He know's no other parents or family and we would want him with us. Social services has managed to trace the identity of both parents but they cannot be found. We do know that the father is a foreign national and is no longer in South Africa. We will be applying for an adoption order when we know for certain when we will be leaving. My wife will also register the adoption in the UK in order for him to get a British passport.

A further complication is that we found out about two years ago that he has a biological sister from the same mother and father and that she is also currently in a children's home. She is now only 4 years old. We have been picking her up over weekends to spend time with us and her brother and are planning to foster her as well. The current issue is that they cannot find her birth certificate in order to place her in foster care with us. Social Services has requested a copy of her birth certificate from Home Affairs. We have told them that they are brother and sister.

A family visa for the two children would probably be a lot quicker but more costly than finalising the adoption and then registering it in the UK. We already have permission from Social Services that they can travel with us on any overseas trip.

We haven't decided on what to do with our property yet. We have one property that we are renting out to a very good tenant who has lived there for about 5 years. I will also need time to sort out everything this side before moving over.

We are probably looking at having everything done in the next 6 months.
 

Milano

Honorary Master
Joined
Feb 7, 2004
Messages
10,971
#2
Struggled to find the question :p

Never too late in your 40's. Go for it. Cannot say whether the UK is the best fit or not. Enjoy it. Try something new.
 

signates

Expert Member
Joined
Dec 8, 2009
Messages
4,469
#3
Struggled to find the question

Never too late in your 40's. Go for it. Cannot say whether the UK is the best fit or not. Enjoy it. Try something new.
I will probably have a ton of questions as we progress through the paperwork.

First step is to get a new Certificate of Entitlement to Rite of Abode affixed into her SA passport. Application has already been made and interview will be in 2 weeks time. I will initially go over with her on a visitors visa to get her settled in before returning and applying for my spousal visa and sorting out the paper work for our Foster son and his sister.

Questions would probably be around school for our son as he's currently in grade 2 and will be in grade 3 by the time we make the move. Not yet sure how that will work and what we need to provide them to get him into a school that side.

We will not be taking anything with us such as appliances and furniture. Will mostly be clothing and personal items.

My biggest concern is getting the adoption order approved. He's been with us since he was 3 and has never met his biological parents. His father is Tanzanian and no longer in the country and his mother is a drug addict who abandoned him at the hospital after she gave birth to him. Even with their hard start to life, they are both healthy children with no serious medical conditions.

The Foster care order is only valid for 2 years and has to be renewed. This is not a problem and we can get an order at our next court appearance until his 18 but not sure if he can go with us only with a Foster care order. Even though there is a clear case for adoption as they have been declared wards of the state, social services are hesitant to assist with an adoption order and I may need to get a private agency involved.

His sister is also a concern as she was removed from the mother after her birth due to what happened with the previous child. We have also since found out that there is another brother who is 9 and also placed in Foster care. She been spending weekends with us as we get the paperwork sorted to have her also placed in Foster care with us. She's only 4 and looks forward to Fridays when I pick her up. The mother is completely untraceable and has not appeared at any of the court appearances. My wife and I can't have kids of our own and after being through a private adoption that was a failure, we decided to go the Foster care route but only for a child that was abandoned as the chances off the parent getting involved would be slim.

Now that we are actively planning on emigrating, the Foster situation may become an issue as we will not leave if both of them cannot go with us permanently. The only real difference between fostering and adoption is that we get a small Foster care grant (±R940) every month and all school fees are waived at any public school. We also need to request permission to take him out of the country which we have already received.
 

marco

Expert Member
Joined
Aug 3, 2006
Messages
2,752
#4
Your wife has a right to live in the UK with adopted kids. You on the other hand has a problem. The UK has the most strict immigration laws in the world and especially so when a citizen tries to "import" a third country spouse.
By third country I mean a non EU member.

Should you and your family live in an EU state (Ireland as no visa is needed for you or family) then after 3 months you could relocate to the UK using EU regulations.

This means no visa fees and only a sponsor for you who earns £ 18 600 pa. That could be you plus your wife and a local relative added together.

Now as you are entering under UK domestic immigration laws it would be different. Note that any EU citizen entering a country of nationality with a foreign spouse will be entering under domestic laws and no EU Directives can be applied.

In practice, therefore, when applying for temporary leave as a partner:
• £62,500 in cash savings is required if no other income sources are being used to meet the income requirement: ie No employment income.

(62,500-16,000) / 2.5 = 18,600
• £17,500 in cash savings is required if the sponsor’s income is
£18,000, in order to make up the £600 shortfall: (17,500-16,000)
/ 2.5 = 60017

Don't ask as I don't get it either.

Now it gets worse.

Your wife and kids will get almost free state health care and so would you BUT you would also need a Comprehensive Sickness Insurance for the 5 year term before you are granted Settled Status. You can dump it after. This is a measure to frustrate immigrants from doing just that..... Immigrating.

To be a "Qualified Immigrant" you would need the 2 above conditions and any break will put your 5 year qualifying term in jeopardy.

Note This is the latest on the Brexit and it may change and probably will soon.
Comprehensive insurance will cost you about R 12 000 to 15 000 A MONTH.

There is a possible way around this that I have explored and I will post on it later as this post is far too long now.
 

Aqua_lung

Honorary Master
Joined
Jul 16, 2004
Messages
16,906
#5
I'd say go for it, you're both still at a good age. Although with the no deal Brexit looming the UK is a country I personally would not consider.
 

Dave

Honorary Master
Joined
Aug 31, 2008
Messages
46,961
#6
Comprehensive insurance will cost you about R 12 000 to 15 000 A MONTH.
I know the Rand has devalued, but not to that amount.

A quick search shows CSI to be under £100 a month, you’re talking as if it’s almost £1k a month.

A quick google

D035E2A3-BB44-42F6-B177-6B6631A00E74.jpeg

While they’re going to be showing the absolute minimums in their advertising there is no way they could advertise a £1000 plan for £5.

D98DA466-485F-4AD5-99BF-BE4400546F78.jpeg
 

marco

Expert Member
Joined
Aug 3, 2006
Messages
2,752
#7
You are quite correct. EU citizens in the UK do not need CSI at all. Those are ADS that you posted and EU citizens do not need them anyway. So why post this? The ads are taking advantage of the need for CSI that is not needed hence the cheep price.
The OP is not an EU citizen. His wife is.
If the OP has been offered a job then there will be no requirement for CSI. It only applies to students. pensioners and self sufficient people.

Until the OP has acquired work he will cannot deduct the time off the 5 year term unless he becomes qualified as an immigrant by having CSI. If he cannot he can be deported.
 
Last edited:

Dave

Honorary Master
Joined
Aug 31, 2008
Messages
46,961
#8
You are quite correct. EU citizens in the UK do not need CSI at all. Those are ADS that you posted and EU citizens do not need them anyway. So why post this? The ads are taking advantage of the need for CSI that is not needed hence the cheep price.
The OP is not an EU citizen. His wife is.
You apparently don’t know all about it then?

I should have posted the link.

Comprehensive Sickness Insurance – the little-known loophole used to deny EU citizens permanent residency

The term ‘Comprehensive Sickness Insurance’ (CSI) has suddenly become a hot topic among EU citizens in the UK. For many, as well as for their British relatives and friends, this was the first time they have ever heard about CSI. Yet for many years, the CSI has been a requirement for all EU citizens studying in the UK or residing here as self-sufficient persons.

Without it, they cannot exercise their treaty rights and acquire permanent residency, which would normally be automatically granted after spending a continuous period of five years in the country.

The CSI is a concern for thousands of EU nationals who, for a proportion of their period of residence in the UK, were either a student, or a self-sufficient person (e.g. carers, stay-at-home spouses, or part-time workers). This would include cases in which an EU national worked full-time for 4 years and then enrolled at a UK university without having a CSI, thus unwittingly interrupting the 5-year residency rule.

The CSI is also discriminatory. Contrary to the Immigration Health Surcharge paid by international students in the UK, there is no standardised rate for private CSI for EU nationals. The CSI premiums depend on age, sex, health, and prior conditions, among others. This disadvantages EU nationals who are women, older, and have current or prior health conditions. Even the cheaper options for healthy young adults (c. 30-40£/month) could be unaffordable to many.
http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandp...used-to-deny-eu-citizens-permanent-residency/



PS

Could you post a link to show where the basic CSI will cost a 41 year old person £800 a month?
 

signates

Expert Member
Joined
Dec 8, 2009
Messages
4,469
#9
A lot of info.

@marco I know that the UK are very strict with their immigration rules and require a lot of information. I have read a few forums where spousal visas were denied but in most of them it was due to insufficient evidence and documentation being submitted or not meeting the minimum income requirements.

A spousal visa for myself is still the best option. My wife will most likely be earning in the 45k - 55k range so we are not too concerned about the income requirements. I just need to compile the list of all supporting documents that will go with my application. She will also need to be working in the UK for 6 months before I can apply for my family/spousal visa as we need to prove her income as my sponser. My wife and I have been married since 2001 so even with their strict immigration rules, if I follow all the requirements and submit all the relevant supporting documents, I do not see them denying the visa. If they do deny the visa they will indicate exactly why it was denied and it can be fixed in a second application. Obviously I would want it to go through with the first application as the family visa is costly.

As I progress through the process I will document everything here and ask question as they come up. I already have a ton of questions but it's more related to getting settled in after I get my visa.

One question I do have is that if we adopt our kids here and register the adoption in the UK, will they retain their SA citizenship or must we apply to Home Affairs for them to ratain their SA Citizenship? I know that I will need to if I take up British Citizenship which can only happen in 5 years' time.

Has anyone here registered an SA adoption in the UK for an older child? They are 8 and 4 years old now.
 

gregmcc

Honorary Master
Joined
Jun 29, 2006
Messages
21,480
#10
I went through the spousal visa route 5 years and have completed the whole process so feel feel to fire off any questions.

The application process is not that difficult but you will need to spend lots of time gathering documents. They are getting more and more strict so any issues with missing/incorrect documents and you will be rejected. Its not a cheap process! I spent about 2 months gathering info when I was in SA while my wife was in the UK.

If you don't have things like unabridged marriage certificate, then best to first work on getting that as it could take 6-12 months to get in SA.

Fees will go up in April 2019 so expect to pay even more.

There is also a ton of info and highly knowledgeable people in these forums. (And equally scary stories!)
https://www.immigrationboards.com/
https://www.expatforum.com/expats/britain-expat-forum-expats-living-uk/

I also moved over in my 40's and have never looked back. First job I got they didn't even ask my age and it was for a very large IT company.
 

signates

Expert Member
Joined
Dec 8, 2009
Messages
4,469
#11
Thanks. I already started looking through various online immigration boards.

Did you have any kids? If so, did you register their births in the UK or did they also go over on a family visa?
 

gregmcc

Honorary Master
Joined
Jun 29, 2006
Messages
21,480
#12
No kids so application was simpler :)

Those 2 boards were the best, mostly used expatforum though.
 

surface

Expert Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2006
Messages
4,261
#13
Now that we are actively planning on emigrating, the Foster situation may become an issue as we will not leave if both of them cannot go with us permanently.
Good on you guys for this. All the best for everything. I have close family members there who migrated to England in 90's and they are happy in general.
 

signates

Expert Member
Joined
Dec 8, 2009
Messages
4,469
#14
Good on you guys for this. All the best for everything. I have close family members there who migrated to England in 90's and they are happy in general.
We are meeting with social services on Monday and will be informing them of our plans and discussing adoption.

We initially thought of going 9 years ago. We got my wife's certificate of entitlement but I did not apply for my spousal visa. Life was great with just the two of us at the time. Had we not stayed, we probably would not have had them. We've been on the list for a while to adopt a child and just got a call one day that there's a 3 year old boy that needs to be placed. I picked him up for the weekend and had him placed with us within a month in Foster care.

Now 5 years later, 2 Foster care order extensions later and waiting on his sister to be placed with us, we want to give it a go in the UK.

I don't think we could have made it any more complicated but we will try our best and see the process through.
 

marco

Expert Member
Joined
Aug 3, 2006
Messages
2,752
#15
Our unabridged Apostilled marriage certificate took 2 weeks from Portugal.
Our kids were born in SA but have dual citizenship with Finland. I doubt if Home Affairs knows about it and even if they do, they would not care.
 

Dave

Honorary Master
Joined
Aug 31, 2008
Messages
46,961
#16
Our unabridged Apostilled marriage certificate took 2 weeks from Portugal.
Our kids were born in SA but have dual citizenship with Finland. I doubt if Home Affairs knows about it and even if they do, they would not care.
You know it’s probably best to quote the post you’re replying to, it makes it much easier to follow the conversation ;)
 

Dave

Honorary Master
Joined
Aug 31, 2008
Messages
46,961
#18
I don't know how to multi quote but they know who they are.
It makes the thread difficult to read and quoting isn’t difficult.

The +Quote button is for multi quote (green) and the Reply button for single quote (red).

F6AC528A-E1A1-498E-B8BC-DC0795ADD583.jpeg
 

marco

Expert Member
Joined
Aug 3, 2006
Messages
2,752
#19
You apparently don’t know all about it then?

I should have posted the link.



http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandp...used-to-deny-eu-citizens-permanent-residency/



PS

Could you post a link to show where the basic CSI will cost a 41 year old person £800 a month?
https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld201719/ldselect/ldeucom/107/107.pdf

//42. For EU citizens resident in the UK, the Joint Report guarantees that
their rights be protected, for life, from discrimination on grounds of their
nationality. The fears that we heard about EU citizens being forced to
move back to their home countries, or take out private medical insurance,
may therefore be allayed by the Joint Report.

The UK has a residency-based healthcare system where eligibility is generally
determined by patients being ‘ordinarily resident’ in the country and not by
past or present payment of National Insurance Contributions or UK taxes.//

Portugal also has a residency based healthcare system and I get free state healthcare here as a temporary resident.
 

Dave

Honorary Master
Joined
Aug 31, 2008
Messages
46,961
#20
https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld201719/ldselect/ldeucom/107/107.pdf

//42. For EU citizens resident in the UK, the Joint Report guarantees that
their rights be protected, for life, from discrimination on grounds of their
nationality. The fears that we heard about EU citizens being forced to
move back to their home countries, or take out private medical insurance,
may therefore be allayed by the Joint Report.

The UK has a residency-based healthcare system where eligibility is generally
determined by patients being ‘ordinarily resident’ in the country and not by
past or present payment of National Insurance Contributions or UK taxes.//

Portugal also has a residency based healthcare system and I get free state healthcare here as a temporary resident.
If you don’t understand then rather say so, also Portugal is an independent country with absolutely nothing to do with UK rules, trying to answer questions about UK rules from a Portuguese viewpoint is just foolhardy.

The link I quoted had all the info, it isn’t enough to just be ordinarily resident, if you are a student or not fully employed an EU national would require CSI.

Here is the relevant paragraph.

The CSI is a concern for thousands of EU nationals who, for a proportion of their period of residence in the UK, were either a student, or a self-sufficient person (e.g. carers, stay-at-home spouses, or part-time workers). This would include cases in which an EU national worked full-time for 4 years and then enrolled at a UK university without having a CSI, thus unwittingly interrupting the 5-year residency ru





PS

Please learn to quote, it’s just stupid seeing // and \\.

It’s not difficult to quote, it probably takes less effort than the nonsense you’re currently doing.

2 clicks...

3E7C1654-B7F5-49BF-B0E1-582857D87FB0.jpeg
 
Top