INFO REQUEST: Chipping a car, does it need to be tuned?

xrapidx

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When I bought my S2000 it was already chipped (Unichip I think). Since then, I've installed a performance intake, and removed the cat, does the vehicle need to be retuned? I was chatting to someone the other day, who said it does?

I know the principles of how an engine works, etc, etc. but have no clue when it comes to chipping.
 

SirFooK'nG

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My knowledge is somewhat limited, but as far as I understand, with all new cars, ignition timing etc are computer controlled. This essentially is what your chip does. There are few different "engine maps" that the chip can do, whereby changing the timing of ignition, and fuel / air etc. But thats it. Its all managed from there. So as for "tuning" i dont think so.... its not a carb that you can fiddle with !
 

xrapidx

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My knowledge is somewhat limited, but as far as I understand, with all new cars, ignition timing etc are computer controlled. This essentially is what your chip does. There are few different "engine maps" that the chip can do, whereby changing the timing of ignition, and fuel / air etc. But thats it. Its all managed from there. So as for "tuning" i dont think so.... its not a carb that you can fiddle with !

Maybe he said remapping?
 

web

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You still need to get the car "tuned" after chipping it.
 

SirFooK'nG

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You still need to get the car "tuned" after chipping it.

what exactly do you tune ???? These chips all have generic maps, very few are completely customizable. But OP can always go to a decent autoshop that does the unichip and ask for an opinion. A remap might work. The point to remember here is more power always = more fuel. If he is happy with his fuel / power as is, then I wouldnt worry...
 
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xrapidx

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I already only get 350km to a tank :(

But considering I work 2km from home - its not really an issue.
 

SirFooK'nG

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I already only get 350km to a tank :(

But considering I work 2km from home - its not really an issue.

Well when I ride my car hard (1.6l Sentra) with a mod here and there, I push about 320-360km on a 50l tank (all in town - also only about 6 or 7km from work). But if i drive like a granny, then goes up to 11km/l. So usually its 99% driving style....
 

xrapidx

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Well when I ride my car hard (1.6l Sentra) with a mod here and there, I push about 320-360km on a 50l tank (all in town - also only about 6 or 7km from work). But if i drive like a granny, then goes up to 11km/l. So usually its 99% driving style....

I only have a 45L tank :(

My car likes being above 6500rpm though...
 

SirFooK'nG

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yeah that s2000 vtech is sweet peice of machinery. Jeremy Clarkson reckoned it was rated the worlds most reliable motor!!
 

JK8

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When I bought my S2000 it was already chipped (Unichip I think). Since then, I've installed a performance intake, and removed the cat, does the vehicle need to be retuned? I was chatting to someone the other day, who said it does?

I know the principles of how an engine works, etc, etc. but have no clue when it comes to chipping.

A standard car can be chipped. It will depend on the type of map, you can choose reliability over performance or both.
The thing is if you already have a map for your standard car and you do some mods, it will help if you do a remap. Your gains will be much higher this time depending on the type of mods.
A Gti can make 170kw+ standard with a chip.
Add a downpipe and decat and maybe an induction, and a remap you can get alot more power...
Most tuners theses days have stage1 to stage 3 chips, with your mods and it being a S2000 you can go for a stage 3!:p

Now that I think of it, I have no idea how much a N/A car can gain from a chip.... not that much I think.
Honda forum maybe?
 

xrapidx

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Checked on an international forum - they just said the S2000 AP1 can't be chipped? WTF.

Waiting for the guys response to my query on that.

BTW - what exactly is a down pipe?

I know guys are getting about 210kw from 177kw with a complete exhaust system and performance intake, not sure if its chipped though.
 

Iwojima

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Checked on an international forum - they just said the S2000 AP1 can't be chipped? WTF.

Waiting for the guys response to my query on that.

BTW - what exactly is a down pipe?

I know guys are getting about 210kw from 177kw with a complete exhaust system and performance intake, not sure if its chipped though.
A downpipe is used to increase exhaust flow from the turbo's turbine outlet to the exhaust system. It can be used bypass a pre-cat.
 
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blaaislaai

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It would be wise to remap the chip after doing mods on the engine., u will performance gains
 

GTI07

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U would def need a new map after doing the intake and decat to extract the most power out of those mods. Contact the old owner and ask how and who mapped the car. Most mordern cars depending on the management system or ECU can be re-mapped via the serial diagnostic port like OBD on the V GTI.
 

Slootvreter

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The gains on naturally aspirated cars are hardly noticeable. Turbo-charged cars (I think supercharged as well) on the other hand show massive increases in power.
 

xrapidx

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Found out some more - its not an actual chip, but some piggyback system....
 

Gnome

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A "chip" is a piggy back, some of them I've heard can plug into the ECU but for the most part a chip refers to a 3rd party programmable control unit that sits between the ECU and engine sensors.

How it works is, a circuit board with a micro-processor is inserted between the ECU and sensor, it then changes the voltages/resistance/etc. received by the ECU, this in turn causes the ECU to do what it is they wish to accomplish with the piggy back, namely increase/decrease fueling/ignition timing/etc.

So the idea is you put in the piggy back system, add performance mods, put the car on a dyno and see where the car is over/under fueling and change values on the piggy back which in turn changes the way the ECU interprets the data, causing a change such as increased fueling or decreased timing, whatever may be the case.

You don't HAVE to do any type of tuning with a chip, you can put it in and put all the values in as 0, that will cause NO change to the input the ECU receives, therefore it's back to stock, so to speak, the chip would be invisible, even to the ECU or any type of diagnostic tool, they'd have to look at the ECU wiring to determine it's there.

You only HAVE to remap if the car is having trouble running, usually this is the case if you fit a seriously wide degree camshaft in combination with other modifications such as port & flow, exhaust manifold, intake manifold, etc. On Opel's for example some people even use 1.4 Corsa ECU's on 2litre engines or fit ITB's (individual throttle bodies) and chip, these cars could probably start without the chip but it's gonna run like crap.

So you can see you only NEED to remap if you A) wish to increase performance or B) the car isn't running as it should (which includes, engine knocking, over/under fueling, terrible fuel economy, etc.)

Most of the newer piggy back system are basically a ECU, they even allow extra injectors and things to be added.

The other side of this as you may know is full management which replaces the ECU with a after market variant, might sound awesome but in reality most cars have pretty awesome stock ECU's and many of these management system lack key features like idle control, I've used Dicktator and Mr. Turbo before and I'd take standard ECU with a piggy back ANY day over those systems, they just cause headaches.

Just so you know: Most N/A cars would get NO benefit from fitting a chip or full management (in fact it'd probably be worse) if extensive mods have not been done to the engine (For example, ANY Opel N/A motor will yield NO gain by fitting a chip without mods). Turbo motors on the other hand is different, most of these yuppies who talk about how awesome their GTi is after a chip assume that the map of the standard ECU is inferior when in reality the extra power was gained by the piggy back increasing the Boost on the Turbo Charger, meaning more power but less reliable motor (and considering VW's track record so far with Turbo chargers I'd say these units are already running on the edge, increasing the boost is just asking for it to blow).

The OEM ECU is tuned by the manufacturer using engine dyno's where the actual engine is fitted to a system and carefully monitored, mobile dyno's or wheel type dyno's can't compete with that.
 
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DarkDenim

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Turbo motors on the other hand is different, most of these yuppies who talk about how awesome their GTi is after a chip assume that the map of the standard ECU is inferior when in reality the extra power was gained by the piggy back increasing the Boost on the Turbo Charger, meaning more power but less reliable motor (and considering VW's track record so far with Turbo chargers I'd say these units are already running on the edge, increasing the boost is just asking for it to blow).

Nonsense! How many GTI turbos have blown because of remapping? The turbo fitted to the TDi Sportline is the only VW turbo with issues, and that's without even remapping. I and a lot other GTI owners have had remapped GTI's for over 2 years with zero issues, not even clutch! No need to make a move...checkmate! :D
 
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