iPhone 13 discussions

Dolby said:
Every industry expert globally is calling it a failure ?
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Every expert?

Neil Shah, VP Research at Counterpoint Research, says that 5 per cent number needs context, since it shows the mini still sells “on par with the Galaxy S21 Ultra 5G in terms of volume — and at a higher margin”. Moreover, he argues the device provides vital opportunities for Apple, retaining users and attracting targeted demographics to Apple’s ecosystem. This includes users on older devices who remain keen on smaller form factors and people who prize “pocketability or pursability”.
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Asymco analyst Horace Dediu broadly agrees. “In contrast to claims the iPhone mini was a flop, Apple doubled down on it and keeps two generations on the shelf,” he says. But there are good reasons for Apple sticking with a varied product line, even in the face of variable sales. “In contrast to the volume of the iPhone, the Mac does not sell well and some Mac variants have very few orders. Apple still sells Macs,” he says. And that’s down to the benefits beyond raw sales numbers that Apple gets from a broader portfolio of products — most notably that these products “cover some niche use cases and users, which keeps customer satisfaction high overall”.
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www.wired.co.uk

Why hasn’t Apple axed the iPhone mini and iPad mini?

Disappointing sales? Who cares! And give the baby gear all the upgrades. Just who inside Apple is in love with the iPhone and iPad mini?
www.wired.co.uk www.wired.co.uk
 
Dolby said:
I see.

So it makes up just 5% of the sales ?
Every industry expert globally is calling it a failure ?
Apple device to drop it ?

But you won't class it as a failure ...
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Well lack of business value still makes the device and overall failure, but contextually that not directly related to sales.

Apples goal is not sales, it’s increasing recurring revenue. In that regard the quantity of sales is irrelevant, it’s the proportion of subscribers generated that are.

Let’s assume they sell 100 iphone 13’s which would make 5 of them the mini.

If of those 95, 90 of them are existing users with subs and of those remaining 5, 4 upgrade their iCloud that’s less than 4% of those users added to the RRS.

If of those 5, 4 of those upgrade their iCloud that’s 80% of those users adding to the RRS, which given the goal is RRS, that would make the 5% of sales yielding a greater long term value than than 95%.

Financial they equal, each group just added like R60 to the pool, but a greater proportion of the relative increase came from the smallest proportion of physical units sold.
 
Also Apple would be very careful of not having a Polo in their line up, because removing it doesn’t mean they’ll automatically go and buy a Gold.

It means they may just go to someone like Kia and buy a Rio instead that fits their desired form factor.

5% is still more than enough to compete only with yourself and leave everyone else out in the cold.

Nobody wants to give 5% away to the competition.
 
CranialBlaze said:
Let’s assume they sell 100 iphone 13’s which would make 5 of them the mini.
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Your figures would be inaccurate, Apple also still sell the iPhone 11, iPhone 12, iPhone 12 mini and iPhone SE. The 13 sales would also be split over the iPhone 13, 13 Pro, 13 Pro Max and 13 Mini.

Apple don't even supply accurate numbers on sales share, it is all best guess estimates.
 
Dave said:
Your figures would be inaccurate, Apple also still sell the iPhone 11, iPhone 12, iPhone 12 mini and iPhone SE. The 13 sales would also be split over the iPhone 13, 13 Pro, 13 Pro Max and 13 Mini.

Apple don't even supply accurate numbers on sales share, it is all best guess estimates.
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I said 100, it’s an example to explain a point, if I were going to accuracy I’d have gone and googled exact numbers and typed a dozen more paragraphs.
 
CranialBlaze said:
I said 100, it’s an example to explain a point, if I were going to accuracy I’d have gone and googled exact numbers and typed a dozen more paragraphs.
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His point is the percentage is across the entire range, not just the iPhone 13.
 
CranialBlaze said:
The example still stands, weather it was 100 13s or 100 iPhones, does not change the premise of the example.
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Oh I agree with the rest of it.

Just that it’s not 95 iPhone 13’s that remain.

More like 10 iPhone 13’s. 8 iPhone 13 Pro Max, 9 iPhone Pro, 25 iPhone SE, 30 iPhone XR etc.

The variance between models is likely within 10%.
 
CranialBlaze said:
Well lack of business value still makes the device and overall failure, but contextually that not directly related to sales.

Apples goal is not sales, it’s increasing recurring revenue. In that regard the quantity of sales is irrelevant, it’s the proportion of subscribers generated that are.

Let’s assume they sell 100 iphone 13’s which would make 5 of them the mini.

If of those 95, 90 of them are existing users with subs and of those remaining 5, 4 upgrade their iCloud that’s less than 4% of those users added to the RRS.

If of those 5, 4 of those upgrade their iCloud that’s 80% of those users adding to the RRS, which given the goal is RRS, that would make the 5% of sales yielding a greater long term value than than 95%.

Financial they equal, each group just added like R60 to the pool, but a greater proportion of the relative increase came from the smallest proportion of physical units sold.
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Apple is first and foremost a hardware company, though. What they make selling iPhones, Macs, etc, dwarfs the amount they make from SaaS. The only reason the Mini probably even existed was to provide a “cheap” gateway into the Apple ecosystem (“why not get an Apple Watch with that Mini?”).

I doubt the £0.79 I spend on 50GB of iCloud storage isn’t nearly as significant to Apple as the almost £1000 I spent buying an iPhone, as the latter locks me in for the foreseeable future my next phone, and the next, etc.
 
The Voice said:
Apple is first and foremost a hardware company, though. What they make selling iPhones, Macs, etc, dwarfs the amount they make from SaaS. The only reason the Mini probably even existed was to provide a “cheap” gateway into the Apple ecosystem (“why not get an Apple Watch with that Mini?”).

I doubt the £0.79 I spend on 50GB of iCloud storage isn’t nearly as significant to Apple as the almost £1000 I spent buying an iPhone, as the latter locks me in for the foreseeable future my next phone, and the next, etc.
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I stand to be corrected but I do believe on the last financial reports a year or three ago SaaS was actually equalling or even eclipsing hardware.

But that includes the AppStore of course, which is a monster nobody pays attention to.

Apple made more on games in 2021 than Xbox, PlayStation and Nintendo combined.
 
SauRoNZA said:
I stand to be corrected but I do believe on the last financial reports a year or three ago SaaS was actually equalling or even eclipsing hardware.

But that includes the AppStore of course, which is a monster nobody pays attention to.

Apple made more on games in 2021 than Xbox, PlayStation and Nintendo combined.
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Currently at around 80% for hardware and 20% for services (iTunes, App Store, iCloud, etc) for Q1-Q3 of 2021 globally according to Statista.
 
The Voice said:
Currently at around 80% for hardware and 20% for services (iTunes, App Store, iCloud, etc) for Q1-Q3 of 2021 globally according to Statista.
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Bear in mind Statista is looking purely at revenue not profits.

It goes without saying that services have much lower costs with higher profit margins.

Either way even at 20% of revenue it’s a huge chunk of business.

What would be interesting is to see stars for per user hardware vs software break down.

Would be very interesting to see how many people have multiple hardware devices over just a single one and how software as a service attaches to that.

I would think all things considered there would be more people with multiple hardware devices and subscription than there are with a single piece of hardware.

In fact anecdotally I’m trying to think of any Apple user I know who doesn’t have more than one hardware product.

Maybe I’ll make a poll here when I’m more lucid.
 
SauRoNZA said:
Bear in mind Statista is looking purely at revenue not profits.

It goes without saying that services have much lower costs with higher profit margins.

Either way even at 20% of revenue it’s a huge chunk of business.

What would be interesting is to see stars for per user hardware vs software break down.

Would be very interesting to see how many people have multiple hardware devices over just a single one and how software as a service attaches to that.

I would think all things considered there would be more people with multiple hardware devices and subscription than there are with a single piece of hardware.

In fact anecdotally I’m trying to think of any Apple user I know who doesn’t have more than one hardware product.

Maybe I’ll make a poll here when I’m more lucid.
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Yeah I think that’s kind of the point of the ecosystem: get you in with something like an iPhone (which accounted for 50% of their revenue), and then once you see how well everything is integrated, you start buying other devices.

I’ve recently made the switch from Samsung to iPhone, partially because I was desperate for a change for ages, but also because I’ve been looking for a smart watch, and the Apple Watch ticks all the boxes (and would work infinitely better when paired with an iPhone).
 
The Voice said:
Yeah I think that’s kind of the point of the ecosystem: get you in with something like an iPhone (which accounted for 50% of their revenue), and then once you see how well everything is integrated, you start buying other devices.

I’ve recently made the switch from Samsung to iPhone, partially because I was desperate for a change for ages, but also because I’ve been looking for a smart watch, and the Apple Watch ticks all the boxes (and would work infinitely better when paired with an iPhone).
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Yeah I’ve been in it for years and then just left the MacBook part of the equation for a couple of years.

iCloud on windows is shockingly sad and ****ing useless and I swear it’s on purpose.

But recently tried to make the switch from Google Photos to Apple (iCloud) Photos and it’s deeply lacking in many ways so now I end up running both.

Outside of that it just works like magic, especially with Apple One.
 
prOd said:
Lol @Dolby, looking for attention in the Apple section now? Shame, nothing going on in the Huawei section?
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Nah - I just didn't think that a product that contributed 5% to sales would be labelled as super successful product :)

But happy to be corrected
 
SauRoNZA said:
But recently tried to make the switch from Google Photos to Apple (iCloud) Photos and it’s deeply lacking in many ways so now I end up running both.
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Does iCloud also sort and categories photos like Google Photos ?
You'd be able to type 'cat' or 'ocean' to find what you need ?

My mom is using an iPhone with Google Photos and it's be logical to switch - but I don't want her to lose functionality
 
Dolby said:
Nah - I just didn't think that a product that contributed 5% to sales would be labelled as super successful product :)

But happy to be corrected
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Whatever you say Simple Jack 2.0

Huawei thread/section --> that way
 
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