iPod City

pdg said:
To JBFRobisher specifically: I realise that my response to your first post was a bit over the top. There just seems to be a lack of differing points of view in this forum in terms of the views expressed about this country and its people.

My post was intended to bring to your attention that there's a lot more to consider in terms of the rights of workers, especially in the Third World, where people like us (the advantaged) live so far high above the horror that they (the disadvantged) have to live with on a daily basis in order to get by...oh, and make us those shiny laptops and iPods.
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Well my response to yours also had its excesses! Mates again, bru?

You are of course right IMHO about workers' rights - I certainly would not advocate D1ckensian workhouses, and the Chinese example quoted is not my ideal.

But, we have over 25% unemployment do we not? Over 40% if you look deeper behind the Stats SA propagandised method, if I recall right.

Businesses everywhere will automate as much as they can because of the protection of labour in SA. Business owners simply wish to minimise the problems of labour - AA, hiring and firing, unions, strikes, sympathy strikes, endless wage demands. What I am saying is that labour is way overprotected, and that reducing the protection mechanisms would increase employment significantly.

Life was never going to be a bowl of cherries - if it were we'd all be drunk on cherry liqueur!
 
pdg said:
Well well, that was quick: Apple responds to iPod 'sweatshop' claims

Of course, I doubt it's anything more than PR spin. I do hope they really do something though...I'd hate to have to look elsewhere for a good mp3 player :-)
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I doubt its more than spin. Environmental groups have a term 'greenwash' which refers to PR patching over the poor handling of environmental issues. I can't remember what the equivalent social term is (bluewash?), but this is probably the case.
 
Greenwash of note....

'takes the allegations seriously' & 'Apple is committed to ensuring that working conditions in our supply chain are safe, workers are treated with respect and dignity, and manufacturing processes are environmentally responsible'

Sure....as long as the profit rolls in we can hire PR to bust out some reassuring bullsh1t while failing to mention that they will still pay workers a pittance

Come on - why not say, Hell we aware that conditions aren't great but do you really want to pay $500 dollars for an ipod made by Americans who demand that some give them a handjob while they have lunch......
 
JBFRobisher said:
Now there's a country where the people value employment! No inflated minimum wages, no spurious strikes, no toyi-toyiing all week long! There are lessons to be learned if we ever want to seriously reduce our unemployment rates.
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JBFR said:
Well well well! What do we have here? A psychic? Living proof of telepathy? Mr. ESP? I don't see how else you could impute so much from my statement that we could learn a lot from China. But yet I am tried, condemned, hanged, drawn, and quartered on the basis of a three-sentence post.

Should I even click on your book club selection link? Nah. You can be our resident expert, seeing as you know so much more than I do. We'll leave you to chant the workers' chant, or go play in the traffic, or quickly resolve our unemployment problems, or go fiddle with yourself. Any of which seems appropriate. Just some advice. Use it. Dont use it. Up to you...
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Okay, I know we're all friends now and suchlike, but when I read these posts my first thought was: "Wow, he is seriously p-ed off. Maybe the chambermaid didn't fluff his pillows correctly last night or maybe the valet didn't get the bathwater temperature right this morning. Or possibly it is just that the butler forgot to polish the diamond-tipped cane and monocle today."

;)
 
Something to ponder.
Where does your clothes come from
Where does your electronics come from
Where does your shoes come from
Where does your carpets come from
My guess would be China. China are'nt know for the high salaries they pay their workers. We all support sweatshops in some way or the other.
 
JBFRobisher said:
Well my response to yours also had its excesses! Mates again, bru?

You are of course right IMHO about workers' rights - I certainly would not advocate D1ckensian workhouses, and the Chinese example quoted is not my ideal.

But, we have over 25% unemployment do we not? Over 40% if you look deeper behind the Stats SA propagandised method, if I recall right.

Businesses everywhere will automate as much as they can because of the protection of labour in SA. Business owners simply wish to minimise the problems of labour - AA, hiring and firing, unions, strikes, sympathy strikes, endless wage demands. What I am saying is that labour is way overprotected, and that reducing the protection mechanisms would increase employment significantly.

Life was never going to be a bowl of cherries - if it were we'd all be drunk on cherry liqueur!
Click to expand...

So it seems we're in agreement then...coz I'm definitely not for protectionism either. My view is that as long as a society has it in them to protect the rights of those that are least able to do so themselves, then the chances of blatant exploitation finding its way higher up the socio-economic ladder are lessened. That means you and me...the people who carry the tax burden. What reason would we have to be positive/productive if we felt that corporations had the run of this place and we had nowhere to turn to?

Some parts of the labour code in this country could definitely do with some lightening up, but the discussion has to serve both sides. You and I are whiling away our paid-for hours enjoying a great conversation, and our respective bosses couldnt walk up to our desks and fire us on the spot without explanation as can happen in some countries. I'm sure you see where I'm going with that :-)
 
 
If you were to ask those Chinese people in that factory they'd tell you they're happy to have a job and they want to better themselves. it all comes down to Asian work ethic, that's what drives them, it's part of their culture.

I am someone who designs consumer products for a living, and we are facing a lot of heat from the Chinese competition and our biggest challenge is, the cost of labour. We cannot get away with paying our staff on the lines a pittance, we somehow have to make the product cheap as hell to make so that we can sell it at closely or slightly less than the Chinese sell it for and we are losing the battle as the Chinese are getting it cheaper and cheaper with each passing year. They don't do R&D they simply copy and make small changes to existing products and thus get it out faster than anyone else, because no-one can sue them for patent violations or anything like that.

The continuous technological drive results in engineers having to use costly, cutting edge technologies and then to sell the end product competitively the company has to skimp or somehow reduce the cost-to-make to the lowest level possible to make any sort of profit.
 
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