Iran test fires new missiles

[RazedInBlack]

They actually the second most powerful army in the world, so even without US support they powerful.... but none the less the US should stay out of it.

I agree, the intelligence agency, Mossad is probably the best in the world. Or so I've read.

 

[rwenzori]

They actually the second most powerful army in the world,

I'd be intrigued to know where that claim comes from.

 

[Albereth]

Really? What gives you that impression

History

 

[marine1]

And fact!

 

[unsecluded]

yeah, real peace will only come if:

a) everyone smokes a joint
b) everyone gets nuclear weapons in which case we'd be in a perpetual stalemate like the Cold War. But until such time, you will always have the greater force in a position of opression.

 

[PeterCH]

They actually the second most powerful army in the world, so even without US support they powerful.... but none the less the US should stay out of it.

They are powerful, not the second most powerful military by a long shot,
but they are powerful BECAUSE of US support. Look there's very little in
Israel otherwise - lots of farmers, lots of kibbutze's, some tourism,
some R&D for companies like Intel and otherwise not much of anything else.
Israel benefits from huge amounts of aid from the US.

 

[unsecluded]

They are powerful, not the second most powerful military by a long shot,
but they are powerful BECAUSE of US support. Look there's very little in
Israel otherwise - lots of farmers, lots of kibbutze's, some tourism,
some R&D for companies like Intel and otherwise not much of anything else.
Israel benefits from huge amounts of aid from the US.

shoo...take out the stockpile of nuclear weapons and they still got a whole lot more than the afghans or iraqis had...lol

 

[TheHiveMind]

I'd be intrigued to know where that claim comes from.

I agree. What happened to all the big names?

Russia
Britain
France
Germany
China
Turkey..


People suddenly think they don't have millitaries because they never see them. Israel doesn't come close. They are given enuf technology and funding by allies to keep the region at bay. They have a tiny population tho and without their allies they wouldn't have the capabilities they currently enjoy.

 

[rwenzori]

I agree. What happened to all the big names?

Russia
Britain
France
Germany
China
Turkey..


People suddenly think they don't have millitaries because they never see them. Israel doesn't come close. They are given enuf technology and funding by allies to keep the region at bay. They have a tiny population tho.

Here is one link showing some figures:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_size_of_armed_forces


Maybe he meant "They actually the second most powerful army in Israel,", after the US LOL!

 

[Alan]

History

Since 1968 the Dems have become a very different beast. Hence the advent of "neo cons"

yeah, real peace will only come if:

a) everyone smokes a joint
b) everyone gets nuclear weapons in which case we'd be in a perpetual stalemate like the Cold War. But until such time, you will always have the greater force in a position of opression.

"perpetual stalemate". Worked so well for the European imperial powers circa 1914

 

[sox63]

Let everyone get nukes and see who blinks first.

 

[Alan]

Let everyone get nukes and see who blinks first.

MAD FTW

 

[alloytoo]

They are powerful, not the second most powerful military by a long shot,
but they are powerful BECAUSE of US support. Look there's very little in
Israel otherwise - lots of farmers, lots of kibbutze's, some tourism,
some R&D for companies like Intel and otherwise not much of anything else.
Israel benefits from huge amounts of aid from the US.

Some perspective.

Israeli GDP $170 Billion (2006), agriculture contributes 2,8% (U$4.76 Billion) of that, which is say more than the US aid to Israel of $2.5 Billion.

 

[unsecluded]

yeah...military isn't that powerfull, but definitely one of the most in that region.
but i think what makes a war is more than military might, there's political, economic and media, which are as powerfull as nukes when used correctly or should i say 'incorrectly. there's of course the wide criticism of the very influential israel lobby in the US.

alanf85

unsecluded
yeah, real peace will only come if:

a) everyone smokes a joint
b) everyone gets nuclear weapons in which case we'd be in a perpetual stalemate like the Cold War. But until such time, you will always have the greater force in a position of opression.

"perpetual stalemate". Worked so well for the European imperial powers circa 1914

alanf85

Quote:

Let everyone get nukes and see who blinks first.

MAD FTW

or FTL

hehe..

 

[PeterCH]

Some perspective.

Israeli GDP $170 Billion (2006), agriculture contributes 2,8% (U$4.76 Billion) of that, which is say more than the US aid to Israel of $2.5 Billion.

Since 1973, Israel has cost the United States about $1.6 trillion. If divided by today's population, that is more than $5,700 per person.
This is an estimate by Thomas Stauffer, a consulting economist in Washington.

http://www.csmonitor.com/2002/1209/p16s01-wmgn.html
Note the year - 2002.

More than half the exports are military and much of that is bought by the US???

Look I'm not against the Yanks helping Israel, but we must say that Israel is able to exist because of America.

 

[Alan]

or FTL

hehe..

Hence the ""



Iran May Have to Abandon Nuclear Program, Israeli President Shimon Peres Says

Tumbling oil prices will force a weakened Iran to consider abandoning its nuclear ambitions, Israeli President Shimon Peres said in an interview with FOX News senior correspondent Eric Shawn.

"The minute a barrel of oil goes down to its real cost, the Iranians will have to make a choice either to provide bread and butter for their children or to provide enriched uranium for the prestige of their leaders," Peres told FOX News in a wide-ranging interview Wednesday.

"Until now they had enough money to do the two things; no more."

 

[JHatman]

I think most countries are the same, give them a little breathing space to flex their ego's and fly some missles around and they'll eventually play nice, like North Korea.

Iran is a different situation in my view because of Israel. The Israelis are very unpredictable and history has shown that when they get nervous they tend to hit first and ask questions later. Their idea of politics has its foundation in knowing that most of the Middle East has vowed to see them wiped from the face of the planet, including Iran's hundreds of threats against Israel over the last decade.

If I were in that position, I'd have absolutely no problem striking first and striking with deadly force, such as in the 7 day war. I would be looking for excuse...

 

[gpe]

Privately Gulf Arab officials sound much harsher about Iran, reflecting increased doubt that either diplomacy or economic sanctions can block its nuclear ambitions. “If the military option happens [ie, if the Americans or Israelis bomb Iran’s nuclear facilities], we will have no problem with that,” asserts a Gulf security expert. “If we reach a point where the choice is living with a nuclear Iran or suffering the consequences [of an attack], we would choose the latter.” Other analysts note that, despite the manpower imbalance between forces, Arab Gulf states are better equipped to damage Iran and resist counter-strikes. The UAE is due to become the first foreign country to deploy America’s most advanced air-defence system, capable of destroying incoming missiles at a range of 200km (124 miles). Already, Arab air forces far outgun Iran’s.

....

GCC = Gulf Co-operation Council—Bahrain, Kuwait, Oman, Qatar, Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates (UAE)
...

Iran, by contrast, has little spare cash after three years of Mr Ahmadinejad’s spendthrift populism. With inflation nearing 30%, Iranians are already grumpy: witness a recent strike by bazaar merchants protesting against a plan to impose VAT, at 3%. Iran needs oil to stay at no less than $75 a barrel to maintain spending. While its isolation from the world economy, partly a result of sanctions, does provide a temporary buffer, a sustained decline in national income may yet focus minds on the cost of pursuing a
nuclear programme that promises no benefit for many years to come.

-- [Economist 8th Nov. Article]

Very true Alan

I'm thinking its all showboating! Although they can afford to continue with sanctions theoretically for a few years (by that time a nuke could be developed), the rising cost of living is going to get extreme!

Iranians are grumbling!

 

[PeterCH]

Hence the ""



Iran May Have to Abandon Nuclear Program, Israeli President Shimon Peres Says

Well it looks like the very thing which got the Dems elected - the economic crisis - is helping out Obama here, by bankrrupting Iran. Iran desperately needs the oil to stay above $50-60 pb (according to Stratfor) and that is not happening.

 

[unsecluded]

sanctions are a classic weaken through containment principle, which is sad. Given all the threats that have come out of Iran, something like a 'pre-emptive' strike is still un-acceptable without a declaration of war. a strike means ultimately you have become the agressor which is what the middle-east will interprate and hold onto only fuelling further future conflicts. Military build-ups only deter further opportunities for the US to assert itself in the region. Read 'rebuilding america's defenses' a paper from a US think tank, Project for the New American Century, a summary can be found here (http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article3249.htm). Lets all face facts, the truth is majority of this has to do with power and economics, and Israel does play a significant factor as well. The US has more fear of Iran, like they did with Iraq in 2000 and Venezuela, with their threats of moving away from the petro-dollar.