Iran - The War Begins (article)

[Xarog]

Ok what Isaid was that using the cluster bombs was right as they had a right to defend themselves.

Except the cluster bombs were used in the last days of the war when Israel knew a cease-fire agreement was coming into effect.

If civilians want to hang around where terrorists are launching rockets then sorry for them.

What part of indiscriminate bombing don't you understand? They intended the bomblets to be lying around in farmlands, in the gutters of houses, etc. etc. etc. This was no attempt to bomb Hezbollah.

Israel dropped pamphlets telling them to get out.

So they're supposed to stay out until the bombs have all been cleared away?

You don't get it, do you? These bombs were launched with the express intent of maximising the ratio of duds so as to create as many landmines as possible. This is not some misguided attempt to bomb Hezbollah - it's to turn Southern Lebanon into a civilian graveyard.

They never listened.

Bullsh!t. Again, are they supposed to stay away indefinately? Want me to define ethnic cleansing for you?

Closet racist? Hmm. Pot calling the kettle black again. (no pun intended) I do not and will not support Islam or the Lebanese as I feel they are mainly militant and want to see Israel destroyed as do you.

Israel is the primary antagonist in the region. It's a 100 year old history and it's filled to the brim with lies and propaganda. Israel has been involved in countless warcrimes. There's a good reason why the UNSC has more resolutions rebuking Israel for its actions than *any* *other* *country*. And that's even with it's bosom buddy America vetoing everything that is more than a mild rebuke.

Those kind of people are living in a dream world as well as being delusional. Never once did I comment on laying mines.

You said you supported Israel's use of cluster bombs in the final days of the war (that's that Israel is getting flack for. Not only the fact that they used them but the manner in which they used them)

Tell me how was killing Israeli athletes constructive? I think you need to wake up and smell what you shovelling. Israel is not going away. You need to accept that.

How is bulldozing people's homes constructive? How is it constructive to build settlements on the occupied territories which Israel is supposed to be the steward of for the people actually LIVING in the occupied territories. You have an incredibly naive view of the middle east.

Israel believes it can do what it wants when it wants in whatever way it pleases and that it will get away with doing so indefinately. The simple truth is that Israel will have to stop this attitude if it wants to guarantee its own survival. If Israel (and the west) does not start being reasonable and recognising that much of the hostility in the region is from muslims who have a strong desire for self-determination instead of an irrational hatred for everything west, then eventually Israel will cause its own destruction.

Lastly, I have no problems with Jews living in the area. But I do have a problem with the state of Israel and the way that it is an apartheid state giving preference to Jews with everyone else being second class citizens. I have a problem that the west seems to approve of this immense stupidity. Didn't we learn any lessons here in SA?

If you want to understand what's happening in the middle east, you simply need to compare Apartheid S.A. to Israel, Hamas et. al. to the PAC and ANC et. al. and the surrounding muslim countries to the surrounding African countries. This isn't rocket science, ffs.

 

[marine1]

Didn't know Israel had been around for a hundred years. Thanks for the new history and geography lesson. I will be sure to let them know. They dropped leaflets in the cities by the way even CNN which is on the ARAB side most of the time showed it. Yes they should stay away until the fighting had stopped. they were given fair warning.

I DIDNT say I advocated it being used in the final days. Dont put words in my mouth. I said they had every right to defend themselves and I agree with them doing it. Read what I said and dont put words in my mouth when you have nothing to say.
They bulldoze their homes to try and stop these radical arabs from blowing innocent people up. Its a warning which these brain dead arabs obviously dont understand.

Israel CAN do whatever it wants to protect itself and it must. Maybe you should go to Israel and see for youreself. Or maybe you cannot. Hmm are you part of Al Q?
Compare Israel to Apprtheid South Africa? Again maybe you should go there.
But I suppose you have made up your mind about it. I would rather have a bunch of Jews living here than a bunch of Muslim extremists.
The Jews and Israel are here to stay and they will fight as they did before until the end. If 5000 odd years didn't get them, I don't think the next 5000 will either.
They been around for thousands of years. Hitler tried to get rid of them and thousands of other tried to but it didn't work. Now they have their own state with enough weapons and resources to defend her people. Islam must be quite upset about that. Funny no Jew has ever demanded that the world convert to Judaism.

"The State of Israel (Hebrew: מְדִינַת יִשְׂרָאֵל (help·info), Medinat Yisra'el; Arabic: دَوْلَةْ إِسْرَائِيل‎, Dawlat Isrā'īl) is a country in the Western Asian Levant, on the southeastern edge of the Mediterranean Sea. It borders Lebanon on the north, Syria and Jordan on the east, and Egypt on the south-west. It has a population of over seven million people.[2] Israel declared independence in 1948 and is the world's only Jewish state, although its population includes citizens of many ethnic and religious backgrounds. It is the Middle East's only liberal democracy.[3]

 

[Alan]

I know very well what makes a "rogue nation". I'm just waiting for you to define it.

Like bombing another nation no matter the justification . If a nation bombs another without justification(ie: self defence) then they could be called a rogue nation. Israel and the U.S obviously aren't rogue nations then.

Maybe I already did.

The conclusion I came to was this : There was no justification for Israel to treat the prisoners as they did and thus Hezbollah is entitled to try and free them.

Still why would they hold onto them? What were they captured for doing? What kind of treatment did they have?

A question which totally ignores the nature of politics in Lebanon. The geneva conventions allows for militia to form when the government of the nation is incapable of resisting an incoming enemy. Since the traditional army was unwilling, or more likely, unable to defend Lebanon, Hezbollah was entirely entitled to take that job upon themselves as a militia. Hezbollah is the government in southern Lebanon for all intents and purposes, and digging bunkers is certainly not the only thing they have done. They have also provided many other services usually left to the government, such as education.

Aren't the government the authority in Lebanon? Since when can a militia arm themselves and turn an area of a country into battlefield filled with bunkers and weapons without the consent of the government. All because they feel the army can't or won't be able to defend that country. Then on top of that they provoke their neighbours into a war without consent from the government. A war the government didn't want but was forced upon them by these militia.

Are you implying the Hezbollah are not Lebanese? Note that they defended the country on behalf of all Lebanese, not on behalf of Hezbollah.

Hezbollah and their actions don't represent the will of the nation of Lebanon. If they did why don't they rule through the government. Yeah after they brought it on the Lebanese in the first place.

Nasrallah.

I suppose he would rather not have it happen. Rather Israel cower. That's not to say he didn't expect it. Hence why he turned the area into "ambush country".

Oh, you're telling me that Christians aren't all the same?

What a strange answer.

I don't really put much faith in the intelligence of the neocons.

That's why "they" are the worlds most powerfull people and you're whinning on a forum about them.

Short of killing every last Iranian, there is nothing that the US can do with military force that will bring about a pro-west leadership or will secure control of any natural resources within Iran.

So why invade then?

Wrong.

Wrong

So it's your contention that the country that exports Wahabbi radicals are absolutely free to do so without any censure as long as they don't attempt to build nukes?

No

Probably because I don't claim to be a mind-reader. You on the other hand claim to know exactly what is on the minds of every self-determination desiring muslim on the planet.

No because obviously you aren't well informed. Except of course when it comes to Hezbollah propaganda which you soak up like sponge. Where did I make this claim?

Yup.

Bwahahaha

Irrelevant. Al Jazeera picked up the story from western media. That kind of thing happens all the time.

Really. Do they not have their own sources considering they specialise in the middle east affairs.

If I sell you a gun and you go and kill your neighbour I wasn't directly involved in the act.

You didn't answer the question. Here it is again So if Iranians are suppling Shia groups with weapons to attack coalition troops are they directly involved in waging guerrila warfare?

 

[marine1]

Again - Iran / Syria are the greatest threats to world peace. They are the ones threatening everyone else.

 

[JK8]

Again - Iran / Syria are the greatest threats to world peace. They are the ones threatening everyone else.

Haha the US and Israel are!!

 

[marine1]

Ha ha We will see who wins in the end !!

 

[marine1]

Wow I didn't know Israel was threatening all nations around the world. Interesting.

 

[JK8]

Ha ha We will see who wins in the end !!

How long has it been already? Hope to be alive to see Israel fall!

 

[marine1]

Well I am sorry to inform you. Ha ha. Even if you live for another 100000 yrs its not going to happen. I am sorry to have to tell you that. Look at Hitler. He thought he would wipe them out and then what do you know? They now have their own state with nuclear weapons. Woohooo Go Israel !!

 

[Xarog]

Didnt know Israel had been around for a hindred years. Thanks for the new history and geography lesson. I will be sure to let them know.

I didn't say that Israel had been around for 100 years, I said that there was a 100 year old history surrounding Israel. Zionism is over 100 years old and they were active as Zionists in the middle east as far back as 1880.

They dropped leaflets in the cities by the way even CNN which is on the ARAB side most of the time showed it. Yes they should stay away until the fightin has stopped. they were given fair warning.

Irrelevant to the discussion at hand. The fighting has stopped and yet there are still a million bomblets lying in wait.

But dealing with the point, irrelevancies aside : It was one thing for them to drop leaflets, but then they also bombed fleeing refugees (warcrime). Would you follow the leaflets instructions if the people that were fleeing were bombed as they were following the leaflets instructions? And that also brings in another problem : Israel had already bombed the roads all over the country - how were the civilians supposed to get out?

And if you think CNN shows the Arab side then you are woefully mistaken.

I DIDNT say I advocated it being used in the final days. Dont put words in my mouth.

You said : "By the way Israel is in hot water over the cluster bombs even though I think they were right in what they did."

Israel is only in hot water over the cluster bombs they used in the FINAL days. It's not my fault if you don't like the consequences of your statements.

They bulldoze their homes to try and stop these radical arabs from blowing innocent people up.

It's collective punishment which is a warcrime. The only thing that's going to stop the hostility of the Palestinians is to deal with their legitimate grievances. They have a right to exist as much as anyone else and they have a right to a nation of their own and a right to demand that Israel recognise it as much as Israel demands that the Palestinians recognise their right to exist.

Its a warning which these brain dead arabs obviously dont understand.

Well at least we're past the 'closet' part.

Israel CAN do whatever it wants to protect itself and it must. Maybe you should go to Israel and see for youreself.

By that standard so can the Muslims.

Compare Israel to Apprtheid South Africa? Again maybe you should go there.

Or maybe you should.

But I suppose you have made up your mind about it. I would rather have a bunch of Jews living here than a bunch of Muslim extremists.

Ah, I see : Jews who want a homeland are just Jews, but if Muslims want the same thing then they're extremists.

The Jews and Israel are here to stay and they will fight as they did before until the end. If 5000 odd years didn't get them, I don't think the next 5000 will either.

Funny how Israel hasn't been around for 5000 years, huh? As they say, history repeats itself.

Islam must be quite upset about that.

Why? Christians have done more to the Jews than the Muslims ever even thought of trying. 100 years ago before the zionists came along to mess things up, Muslims and Jews were happily sharing the area. And the sephardic Jews who were living in the area were resentful of the arrival of the zionists because they knew what the result would be.

Funny no Jew has ever demanded that the world convert to Judaism.

Yeah, funny how Muslims in general don't demand the same either. Hamas has never demanded that everyone convert to Islam, and niether have the Iranian Ayatollahs or Hezbollah or the Syrians. Did you know that there's Jews in the Iranian version of parliament? Yeah, didn't think so...

 

[JK8]

Well I am sorry to inform you. Ha ha. Even if you live for another 100000 yrs its not going to happen. I am sorry to have to tell you that. Look at Hitler. He thought he would wipe them out and then what do you know? They now have their own state with nuclear weapons. Woohooo Go Israel !!

Lol wasnt the new PM of Israel guilty of raping a minor?

The world as we know it stand in the hands of the Saudis, should the Saudis stand with all the Islamic nations, goodbye Israel.

 

[marine1]

Um no you said and I quote: "Israel is the primary antagonist in the region. It's a 100 year old history and it's filled to the brim with lies and propaganda."
Thus refering to Israel and not Zionism.

Hmm now you changing your tone - bomb fleeing refugees. Proof please ?And please dont send me to Al Jazeera.
Um no Israel is in Hot water over the use of CLUSTER bombs. Got nothing to do with last days.

I have been there many times and for long periods of time so I can speak. Maybe once again, you should go there.
Muslims want a homeland ? BWAHAHAHAHAHA
Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Iran, Iraq,
Jordan
Kazakhstan
Kuwait
Kyrgyzstan
Lebanon
Libya
Malaysia
Maldives
Mali
Mauritania
Morocco
Mozambique
Niger
Nigeria
Oman
Pakistan
Palestine
Qatar
Saudi Arabia
Senegal
Sierra Leone
Somalia
Sudan
Suriname
Syria
Tajikistan
Tunisia
Turkey
Turkmenistan
Uganda
United Arab Emirates
Uzbekistan
Western Sahara
Yemen ,etc,etc

History repeats itself? Yeah maybe, throughout time tyrants have tried to destroy Jews and they all failed miserably. They just made them stronger. Well done on that by the way.
By the way, a lot of Christains have no issues with Jews.

Taken from another site:

"Islam does not mean peace. It means submission (or else!) to the will of the Muslim god Allah and when you submit you become the slave of Allah. All that Allah asks is that you stop thinking for yourself, give up your own decency and divide the world into believers (Muslims) and non-believers (everyone else) which you must not befriend or respect and must eventually either convert , enslave or destroy . You must also be willing to attack anyone anytime who is labeled an enemy of Islam when asked to by your local imam (a self appointed fanatic who acts as a priest in Islam). Islam teaches that you have to accept the evil of Islam because, in Islam , evil is OK if it is the will of Allah. What a deal! "

Interesting

 

[marine1]

Lol wasnt the new PM of Israel guilty of raping a minor?

Don't know he has not gone to court yet. But then I suppose you know innocent until proven guilty? Oh right that only applies to when it suits you.

[The world as we know it stand in the hands of the Saudis, should the Saudis stand with all the Islamic nations, goodbye Israel.

Actually no, it stands in the hands of China, USA, Russia. etc.

 

[Xarog]

Israel and the U.S obviously aren't rogue nations then.

Sure they are. Iraq posed no threat to the US, they did not attack the US in self defense.

The US was not under threat by the muslims in Sudan, yet they bombed them anyway.

Israel incited the 6 day war. Israel routinely ignores international law. Israel is guilty of countless warcrimes.

The US and Israel are the real rogue nations.

Since when can a militia arm themselves and turn an area of a country into battlefield filled with bunkers and weapons without the consent of the government.

Since they are defending the country from an outside attack that the government is unable to face. And Hezbollah is part of the government and each sect within Lebanon has their own private army. It just happens to be that the Christian sect is the one that is "officially" the army.

A war the government didn't want but was forced upon them by these militia.

Yeah, funny how the citizens widely disagree with the government. And it's worth noting that Lebanon isn't a democracy which you seem to think is so critically important.

Hezbollah and their actions don't represent the will of the nation of Lebanon. If they did why don't they rule through the government.

Because in Lebanon the president has to be Christian and the vice-president has to be Sunni. Other than that, Hezbollah is the largest single sect within the Lebanese govt. IIRC. And right now it has the support of the majority of the Lebanese. If Lebanon was a real democracy and votes were held tomorrow, Hezbollah would be the decisive winners.

Hence why he turned the area into "ambush country".

Yeah, once invaded twice shy.

That's why "they" are the worlds most powerfull people and you're whinning on a forum about them.

I don't see any whining. And if they're so powerful how come they can't even pacify little old Iraq?

So why invade then?

Yeah, I don't understand it either. Any idiot can see that it's a foot shooting excercise.

Wrong

I'm glad you agree.

No

Then explain why it matters that Saudi-Arabia is not known to be developing nuclear technology.

No because obviously you aren't well informed.

Better informed than you are.

Where did I make this claim?

Every single time that you claim that every source of violence in the middle east perpetrated by a muslim is the result of fundamentalism or extremism.

Really. Do they not have their own sources considering they specialise in the middle east affairs.

Everyone does. But then news stations poach each other's stories all the time. If news24 breaks a new huge scandal involving a rape charge against tony leon do you really think iol isn't going to follow suite?

You didn't answer the question. Here it is again So if Iranians are suppling Shia groups with weapons to attack coalition troops are they directly involved in waging guerrila warfare?

No they aren't.

Again - Iran / Syria are the greatest threats to world peace. They are the ones threatening everyone else.

Perhaps you can explain to me how a *secular* ruler like Assad is a muslim fanatic bent on threatening world peace.

Well I am sorry to inform you. Ha ha. Even if you live for another 100000 yrs its not going to happen. I am sorry to have to tell you that. Look at Hitler. He thought he would wipe them out and then what do you know? They now have their own state with nuclear weapons. Woohooo Go Israel !!

Yeah, somehow I think the rest of us understands that Israel != Jews. There are plenty of anti-zionist Jews around who think that Israel is an abonomination of human decency.

 

[Skeptik]

What part of indiscriminate bombing don't you understand? They intended the bomblets to be lying around in farmlands, in the gutters of houses, etc. etc. etc. This was no attempt to bomb Hezbollah.

Errr.... and where were Hezbollah hiding themselves and their rockets??

 

[JK8]

Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Iran, Iraq,
Jordan
Kazakhstan
Kuwait
Kyrgyzstan
Lebanon
Libya
Malaysia
Maldives
Mali
Mauritania
Morocco
Mozambique
Niger
Nigeria
Oman
Pakistan
Palestine
Qatar
Saudi Arabia
Senegal
Sierra Leone
Somalia
Sudan
Suriname
Syria
Tajikistan
Tunisia
Turkey
Turkmenistan
Uganda
United Arab Emirates
Uzbekistan
Western Sahara
Yemen ,etc,etc


Mmmmm so if the populations of all these countries border Israel, they can drown Israel with their pee!!

 

[JK8]

Don't know he has not gone to court yet. But then I suppose you know innocent until proven guilty? Oh right that only applies to when it suits you.
Actually no, it stands in the hands of China, USA, Russia. etc.

China? Russia?

 

[marine1]

Pacify Iraq ? What about Iran and Syrai at the same time?
Actually Isalm is at the centre of most conflicts - no all conflicts today.
and there are 1000s of Jews and Christians who disagree with your militant islamic views

 

[marine1]

Perhaps you can explain to me how a *secular* ruler like Assad is a muslim fanatic bent on threatening world peace.

Wiki : "Upon becoming President, Bashar al-Assad promised economic and political reforms to Syria, but he has so far delivered little change from the status quo. The Baath Party remains in control of the parliament, and is constitutionally the "leading party" of the state. Bashar al-Assad, however, was not strongly involved previously in the running of the party. Until he became President, Bashar's only formal political role was as the head of the Syrian Computer Society, which was mainly in charge of introducing the Internet to Syria." He is a terrorist. Just to scared to actually try invade Israel as he will get his a$$ whipped so he uses state sponsored terrorism.

 

[Xarog]

Um no you said and I quote: "Israel is the primary antagonist in the region. It's a 100 year old history and it's filled to the brim with lies and propaganda."
Thus refering to Israel and not Zionism.

Zionism's goal was the creation of a Jewish state in historical Palestine named Israel. Thus Israel's history started with the birth of Zionism.

Muslims want a homeland ? BWAHAHAHAHAHA

Actually it's the Palestinians who want a homeland - but you just call them muslim extremists. It's not my fault if you get caught up in your own over-simplistic terminology.

I have been there many times and for long periods of time so I can speak. Maybe once again, you should go there.

Next time try going as an arab.

By the way, a lot of Christains have no issues with Jews.

Then again just as many do. Hitler was a self-professed Christian, afterall.