Is bandwidth expensive?

podo

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desraid,

I would be very surprised if they weren't. Keep in mind that since Telkom is now a listed company, it relies on shareholder capital and as such, must turn a profit in order to be able to pay dividends to its shareholders.

If consistant profit growth is not assured, shareholders become restless and either withdraw support, or influence management decisions in ways that sacrifice service levels for profits.

Currently, Telkom is turning very handsome profits for its shareholders and is making very little investment toward infrastructure, so I would definitely say that they are neglecting infrastructure maintenance and improvement for the sake of profits.

This has probably been going on since Telkom were first floated on the stock exchange and is unlikely to stop until another operator is able to provide real competition to Telkom. That's unlikely to happen any time soon, so don't hold your breath. [:(]

As for the question of the modems, I can assure you that the 24 month contract modem bundle is not a good deal at all. The modem is provided as a loyalty bonus for signing the 24 month contract. This is mainly a ploy designed to make sure that customers will stay with Telkom for some time and not switch to another provider, should one become available, for at least two years.

The Telkom modems provided by Marconi Telecommunications are very overpriced and yield very poor performance when compared to competing products.

A PCI ADSL modem that is more than sufficient for single user applications can be purchased from as little as R300 if you know where to shop. USB modems generally start at R500. For R700 or more, you can get yourself a very respectable ethernet bridge type ADSL modem, very handy if you happen to already have a LAN and router in place and simply wish to take advantage of ADSL.

If you need to service more than one user, but do not have a router or even a LAN, you could also look at modem/router/switch combination solutions with a built in PPPoE client and NAT support, from several vendors, starting from as little as R1000.

If you have some cash to drop, you could even spend around R1500 (the same price as the basic Telkom modem) and get a modem which is also a router, a switch and a wireless network access point, all in one.

I own my own modem, the D-Link DSL300G, an ethernet bridge type, which I bought for R750. The PPPoE link over the bridge is provided by a FreeBSD machine which is configured to act as a router, which was here before we upgraded to ADSL. The DSL300G provides excellent stability with absolutely zero maintenance. It does not crash or hang, does not need to be re-configured after power spikes or failures and is not a security risk.

Buying a Marconi Ethernet POTS modem will get you nothing but grief, the device is reported to crash frequently, causing a loss in connection and requiring manual restart to become available again. Many bugs are reported to exist, even in the latest firmware. In its default configuration, it also poses a security risk, as it can be trivially compromised if not configured properly.

Thus, for almost R1500, Telkom will give you a device which is unreliable, insecure and is still just a modem/router with limited NAT capabilities.

For more or less the same price, other vendors will sell you a modem / router with a powerful firewall and NAT built in, which can also act as an ethernet switch and even a wireless gateway.

You would do much better not signing a 24 month contract tying yourself down to Telkom and just going to your local retailer to buy your own modem. You won't pay less for the service though.

MaD,

The bandwidth they brag about there does seem to be impressive on paper, but it doesn't really help us. Largely, Telkom's ATM infrastructure is accessed via copper of fiber connections of 2MBps or less. These connections are also what connect most of the DSLAM points to the ATM infrastructure.

Even with that kind of bandwidth, Telkom would still have a problem providing continuous service at the full throughput possible with their ADSL product. Consider that at the moment, all South African ADSL connections run at 512kbps and that (according to Telkom) ADSL now serves a customer base of 16 000 users.

512kbps x 16 000 equals 8GBps. This means, if all ADSL users were to go all out, all at once, more than three quarters of the available core bandwidth of 11GBps would be saturated.

Now, also keep in mind that this bandwidth must serve the entire ATM network, not just ADSL users. The Telkom ATM network serves small and large customers, from thousands of 64kbps Diginet connections and thousands of users connected to dial-up PoPs around the country, to hundreds of large frame relay connections, from 34MBps to 155MBps, used by first tier ISPs to connect their PoPs, data centers and backbones together.

From this, it would be evident that the infrastructure they brag about there is badly insufficient to fully service all of the customers on their network, especially if you take into account that large ISPs with frame relay connections and businesses with Diginet connections have service level agreements which guarantee them a certain amount of bandwidth.

ADSL users get what ever is left over and this is not very much. The much hated cap is there to mask the insufficiency of Telkom's infrastructure for providing broadband service on a massive scale. The ATM network can handle quite a number of small Diginet lines and a respectable amount of large frame relay connections relatively well, but adding large scale consumer broadband to the equation puts tremendous stress on the bottlenecked infrastructure.

Willie Viljoen
Web Developer

Adaptive Web Development
 

martin

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These are the sort of explanations we can use in a complaint to Icasa. Podo, you're the man.
 

SqueaL

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So, does this mean that the fact that TelKrap apparently "cannot" distinguish between local and international traffic is just another smokescreen to disguise the fact that their infrastructure cannot handle too many broadband connections locally or internationally?
 

podo

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Apr 16, 2004
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Squeal,

No, they actually can not distinguish between local and international traffic. [:)]

The reason for this is that traffic metering is performed by a Radius AAA server hooked up to the PPPoE server through which you connect to the internet.

The PPPoE servers sit near to core routers in Gauteng, to allow for the best local bandwidth, but with big drawbacks in terms of international traffic, causing high latency and bottlenecks.

The international endpoints for Telkom's network are presently the SAT3 cable, landing at Melkbosstrand and the SAFE cable, landing near Richardsbay.

Since the PPPoE servers sit very far from these endpoints, there is absolutely no way to determine wether traffic leaving a PPPoE server is destined for local or international router. Since the PPPoE servers also sit on the other side of the core routers, they can't see if traffic might be leaving for JINX or going on into Telkom's own network, either of which would definitely make it local.

The only way for them to measure international traffic only would be to measure by IP address at the international endpoints to SAT3 and SAFE.

To do this, routers would have to report traffic for each IP address via SNMP to intermediary software which processes the traffic reports. The processed data would then need to be checked against the DHCP tables which associate allocated IP addresses with MAC addresses of network interfaces.

Once traffic has been associated with MAC addresses, tables in the PPPoE servers would need to be checked to associate the MAC with the username of a user that has logged in from that MAC address. Once this is done, the result of all of this processing would need to be fed into the Radius server sothat it can perform accounting for that username.

All of this creates massive potential for slowdowns and calculating errors. Not to mention the possibility that you could knock another user off the network by exploiting a security flaw in their ADSL modem, then use your custom non-Telkom modem (if you don't have one, why not?) with some custom firmware to change its MAC, steal the IP address of your victim and download away until you are eventually disconnected.

At that point, there would be no way for either the victim or Telkom to prove that it was not the victim using the IP address and the traffic would count against them, not the traffic thief.

Also, since all web traffic on the ADSL network is captured by transparent proxies, there would be no way to determine which IP address is sending or receiving HTTP packets, as all HTTP traffic reaching the endpoints would simply appear to be the transparent proxies and not individual users.

To get around this, Telkom could disable the transparent proxies, but that comes with its own disadvantages. Since the infrastructure is too limited as it is, turning off transparent proxies would definitely have an adverse effect on speed and latency. Currently, once one user on a DSLAM has downloaded files that fall within a certain size limit, the file is stored and all other users receive it directly from the proxy. This saves a great deal of traffic which would otherwise clog up the pipes, so to speak.

Turning off the proxies at this stage is obviously a bad idea. Each time Microsoft publish a new Windows update, there would be absolutely no bandwidth at all, as all the Windows users faithfully download the enormous file and the enormous file has to traverse the network once for each user that needs it, instead of once for each DSLAM.

Instead, Telkom perform accounting directly on a per-username basis. In other words, the PPPoE server counts the bytes each user transmits and receives while logged in and passes the count directly to the Radius server, which performs the accounting.

Measuring on a per-username basis is much easier and much more accurate than the other possibility, but it does have the drawback of not being able to determine where the traffic will be going.

I suppose we should pick our battles, if we did manage to force Telkom to change this policy somehow, we might be opening a can of worms with measurements that are even more problematic and inaccurate than the current system.

Willie Viljoen
Web Developer

Adaptive Web Development
 

desraid

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I don't think they will amend this curren ADSL situation.
Because, now if we ask Telkom to do something about the 3 gb cap then they will say "You can buy another account to enable you with the additional 3 GB".
And, if we ask Telkom do do something about the port shaping, then they will say "You can buy our new released 4 GB unshaped account!"

[V][V][V]
 

Karnaugh

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<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Since the PPPoE servers sit very far from these endpoints, there is absolutely no way to determine wether traffic leaving a PPPoE server is destined for local or international router. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

I can't see your reasoning. Of course they are able to account all IP traffic and then rather than check if it was bound for international, check if it is a local IP and discount the traffic. It doesnt matter where they do it.

- Colin Alston
colin at alston dot za dot org

"Getting traffic shaping right is easy and can be summed up in one word: Dont." -- George Barnett
 

podo

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Apr 16, 2004
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Karnaugh,

You mean, count the traffic as they do now first, then subtract anything that was local?

Interesting idea... it might work too, if Telkom's team of "trained Cisco engineers" had even the slightest clue. [:(]

Sadly, even if we did convince them to do such a thing and even if they did manage to get it right, Telkom probably wouldn't want to do this anyway.

Since the cap is just there to prevent people from saturating the bottlenecks in their insufficient infrastructure, I can't see how they would put out an open invitation to people to flood the network with local traffic, without it counting against the cap. This would defeat the perpose of the cap.

If the cap were just there to save them some cash on international bandwidth, they would probably be interested in doing this, however, since it is just there to protect them from having to upgrade their wonky infrastructure, I doubt they would be interested in doing anything that makes it less strict. Remember that the worst problem isn't international bandwidth at all, but bottlenecks on their local network.

Willie Viljoen
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rsachoc

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Mar 17, 2004
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Podo

I am not a technical person when it comes to networks, however, when ADSL was first launched, local traffic did not count towards the cap (as well as the upload traffic). This implies that they had a way to determine if traffic from an ADSL user was international or local. How did Telkom do it then if they cannot do it now? Did they change something?
 

podo

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Apr 16, 2004
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rsachoc,

All I can think is that they either had the PPPoE servers sitting right at the international endpoints, or that they were doing something similar to what Karnaugh suggested, i.e., counting the traffic as they do now, but using logs from the routers to discount any traffic that turned out to be local.

Willie Viljoen
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Adaptive Web Development
 

desraid

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<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by rsachoc</i>
<br />when ADSL was first launched, local traffic did not count towards the cap (as well as the upload traffic).
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

I used ADSL when it first launched in Gauteng.

At that time, there was no cap implemented for a short period.
 
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