Is consumerism killing the middle class?

When you go to a 2nd-hand car dealer, mybe take a newspaper page or two, and fold it up 4 or 5 times into a wad and stick it in your jeans back pocket.

First thing you tell the dealer... when you find something suitable... you'll be paying cash.

:cool:
/_:thumbsup:
 
To add onto Lexity's earlier point around government staying out of business, its income taxation that's killing the middle class.
Yes inflation and consumerism (capitalism) certainly has an effect. In our current where the majority is employed in the informal sector, there is a huge imbalance in whom pays income tax. The middle class bears the brunt of this.
 
ShaunSA said:
I generally don't read such long whiney posts but let's see.

You''re feeling guilty because your friend pointed out your frivalous spending. Instead of admitting he was right you ran to the internet to justify it? You do realise that guilt won't outrun all the posts that support your purchase right?
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The OP at a braai with his fancy bootsies:

Snobs.png
 
It's a bit of a subjective topic, unless we are talking about credit strapped consumers pushing the absolute limit of what the credit bureau API is returning, then yes, otherwise it's preference and choice.

For example, I pay anything between R2000 - R4000 for an entry into trail-run races at least 3 times a year, when I added up all the additional costs and entries I realised I fork out on average R30k per year just for trail-running. Is that a lot, I don't know, what I do know is that I have "picked my poison" and it is something I love.

I could have bought nearly 8 fancy boots last year :cool:

What has definitely ramped up is impulsive micro-spending, as opposed to intentional thought-out spending. It's always been around, but these days it's just that much more accessible.
 
SeRpEnT said:
No idea tbh. It's an online forum.... aint 99.9% of us on here either guys or guys pretending to be girls or some other weird variant of that?!
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I ask because only a chick would gaan aan about a pair of boots

Or those kweens from the fancy shoes thread
 
HocusPocusFM said:
To add onto Lexity's earlier point around government staying out of business, its income taxation that's killing the middle class.
Yes inflation and consumerism (capitalism) certainly has an effect. In our current where the majority is employed in the informal sector, there is a huge imbalance in whom pays income tax. The middle class bears the brunt of this.
Click to expand...
Ahem, capitalism is more akin to meritocracy... you know where the government doesn't bailout or subsidize its cronies.

We are a long, long way from being a Capitalist society.

If you want to follow the route to Communism-by-the-back-door..... you should implement a mixed-economy.... where you have some exposed to market forces and others who are protected from it via the State.

1753961779517.png
 
HocusPocusFM said:
To add onto Lexity's earlier point around government staying out of business, its income taxation that's killing the middle class.
Yes inflation and consumerism (capitalism) certainly has an effect. In our current where the majority is employed in the informal sector, there is a huge imbalance in whom pays income tax. The middle class bears the brunt of this.
Click to expand...

Oh in South Africa this is the biggest nail in the coffin of the middle class for sure.

And I can almost assure you it's done on purpose by the state... Hell-bent on equality in SA never mind whether the poor outnumber the middle class and rich 10:1. In the end once we all share the South African wealth (or lack thereof really) equally we will all be equally poor and farked. No more middle class. The rich offcourse would have fled long ago.

And in a country of just one class.... the poor... the one guy (or girl?!) with a fancy pair of boots will be king. :cool:
 
Zellephant said:
This grinds my gears to no end. But the car dealers are part of the problem here, ever since they started advertising all their deals as “from only Rxxx.xx per month, instead of just advertising the purchase price of the car, and let me choose how to go about financing that purchase.

People who “buy” stuff, especially cars based on advertised monthly instalments are fooling themselves that they are buying anything. They are leasing, no matter what they tell themselves…. Which in itself isn’t necessarily a bad thing, but just be honest about it… and also, don’t bother yourself with how someone else chooses to pay for something, unless you really know they are doing themselves long term harm, and they are people that matter to you.

We lease my wife’s car, and I buy mine older, and cash. Works well for us, but it’s an informed decision.
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Discussing anything one owns and how much is just tasteless at a gathering, and then for your friend to carry on would just seriously piss me off in that situation, then to debate the quality of a woolworths shoe vs a quality pair would just be wrestling with pigs.
 
Sepeng said:
We all place value on different things and then impose our values on others and then judge them based on our priorities; what's junk to one person might not be to someone else. I might think good dinner at a nice restaurant is a complete waste and choose to spend my money on whatever, a shiny bauble. Who's to say who was smarter with their cash?
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i was having dinner with a neighbor some time back, in one of his many restaurants in ct.
we had a couple of beers with our meal, then moved to scotch afterwards nothing crazy - j&b black kind of thing.

he motions to two tables nearby, each had ordered insanely prices bottles of scotch - the R5k kind of bottle.
he smiled and commented " for the R5000 bottle, they will get no more pissed than us and our R500 bottle !!"
 
Zellephant said:
Following on the previous thread about trying to define the middle class, I have begun wondering if consumerism has also been playing a role in eroding the middle class.

There is no doubt that economics, the failure of the current goverment to ensure growth and keep inflation down and all those things have made middle class life extremely expensive. But, at the same time, I know lots of people who can’t afford to own a house, but pay premium on car instalments and replace their car every 2-3 years, and only buy new (with balloons and all)

People who can’t afford weekends away or a decent annual holiday, but spend a small fortune on fast fashion and Temu hauls and buying all kinds of toys and gadgets, totally obsessed with whatever the latest gimmick to be launched is.

What really got me thinking about this, is over the weekend, I bought myself a new pair of boots. These are high quality, handmade items imported from Australia. These boots cost me R4500.00. I wore them to a braai that evening. A friend commented on them being very good looking boots, but when I told him what I paid, he spent the rest of the evening telling me how crazy that is, how he would never spend that much, and how the R900.00 Chelsea boots he bought at Woolworths do the same job. It actually got a bit annoying toward the end of the evening - especially since I didn’t want to tell him about what they cost, he asked. And the price had nothing to do with why I bought them.

I bought them because I wear Chelsea boots and chinos 6 days a week, and I have another pair of the exact same boots, that I wear at least 3 times a week, have used them for both hunting trips and business meetings alike, and have been doing so for 15 years, and they are still pretty much in perfect shape… I just wanted a slightly shinier pair. To me, those boots seem like a bargain, just like my 10 year old MacBook, my 15 year old paid off car etc. I don’t buy anything unless I have a use case for it, and when I do, I rather save up and buy a quality item once, and use it for years. But everytime I do, people feel the need to tell me how much cheaper I could have gotten a similar product for - but these same people are constantly replacing their cheaper products with newer ones.

So, has a large part of the “middle class” replaced the joy one gets out of middle class experiences, like a good dinner at a nice restaurant once in a while, with daily uber eats deliveries, or the dopamine from weekends away/holidays with endless Temu and Takealot junk hauls.
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qe2.jpg





i jest, i was unable to resist
 
Fulcrum29 said:
The other day, not here, I said that I am pro-consumerism, and immediately I was labelled a capitalist.
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What is wrong with being a capitalist? It is a terrible system but unfortunately it is the only system that works. Socialism (communism) has shown that it cannot work - and no, it is not because it was wrongly managed. I am a proud capitalist.

Regarding the OP's issue my view is that if you can afford it and you want it, buy it. However, the moment you have to take out a loan to do it, then you cannot afford it. If you are younger than 45, it is okay to get a house loan and maybe a loan for a small car. If you are over the age of 45, the rule should be that if you cannot pay cash for it, you cannot afford it.
 
Stonemason said:
What is wrong with being a capitalist? It is a terrible system but unfortunately it is the only system that works. Socialism (communism) has shown that it cannot work - and no, it is not because it was wrongly managed. I am a proud capitalist.

Regarding the OP's issue my view is that if you can afford it and you want it, buy it. However, the moment you have to take out a loan to do it, then you cannot afford it. If you are younger than 45, it is okay to get a house loan and maybe a loan for a small car. If you are over the age of 45, the rule should be that if you cannot pay cash for it, you cannot afford it.
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I 100% agree with this, but people are paying with cash, in dozens of micro transactions, for a load of junk, and at the same time unable to afford meaningful “middle class” experiences, of quality tools or equipment, or shoes for that matter.

This behaviour is being socially engineered.
 
The_MAC said:
It's a bit of a subjective topic, unless we are talking about credit strapped consumers pushing the absolute limit of what the credit bureau API is returning, then yes, otherwise it's preference and choice.

For example, I pay anything between R2000 - R4000 for an entry into trail-run races at least 3 times a year, when I added up all the additional costs and entries I realised I fork out on average R30k per year just for trail-running. Is that a lot, I don't know, what I do know is that I have "picked my poison" and it is something I love.

I could have bought nearly 8 fancy boots last year :cool:

What has definitely ramped up is impulsive micro-spending, as opposed to intentional thought-out spending. It's always been around, but these days it's just that much more accessible.
Click to expand...

 
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