Is consumerism killing the middle class?

Why blame consumerism in particular, consumerism is as old as the hills, people have been searching for a shiny new bauble since "shopping" became a thing, probably around Victorian times and it’s always had the ability to empty the pockets of the foolish.
 
@Zellephant

In economics the phenomenon is called: 'high time-preference'. (Actually not a very good term because it's at first glance not related)

It's where one's horizons in life shorten to the degree money must be spent quickly .... because otherwise it loses its value.

Since convid price inflation has gone bananas. Erosion of the purchasing power of money, is correctly sensed by the general population.

They are actually doing the sane thing by spending it 'too' quickly.

To correct the problem of high time-preference, you need to remove government's intervention in the money business.
 
nobody forces you to partake in "consumerism"

can't blame "consumerism" for one's own irresponsible spending behaviour
 
Zellephant said:
People who can’t afford weekends away or a decent annual holiday, but spend a small fortune on fast fashion and Temu hauls and buying all kinds of toys and gadgets, totally obsessed with whatever the latest gimmick to be launched is.

So, has a large part of the “middle class” replaced the joy one gets out of middle class experiences, like a good dinner at a nice restaurant once in a while, with daily uber eats deliveries, or the dopamine from weekends away/holidays with endless Temu and Takealot junk hauls.
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I mean is your issue the fact that the middle class buys stuff (TVs, iPads, clothes) or cheap stuff?
If I look at the above, seems to me you're saying they can afford that weekend away but they're choosing to spend their money on fast fashion and gadgets?
We all place value on different things and then impose our values on others and then judge them based on our priorities; what's junk to one person might not be to someone else. I might think good dinner at a nice restaurant is a complete waste and choose to spend my money on whatever, a shiny bauble. Who's to say who was smarter with their cash?
I reckon we can all be wiser with how we spend some of our money but if you're paying your bills, putting some away for a rainy day and all that, and with your extra pennies you spend it on stuff that you think adds to your life, dunno, go for it I guess. If the argument is the middle class spends too much on any stuff regardless the quality then that applies to all of us.
 
Zellephant said:
buying all kinds of toys and gadgets, totally obsessed with whatever the latest gimmick to be launched is.
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I take refentse on this statement.

It is the only thing that makes me feel better at the end of each day.

Then again, in my life, yeah, maybe consumerism is bad.
 
Sepeng said:
I mean is your issue the fact that the middle class buys stuff (TVs, iPads, clothes) or cheap stuff?
If I look at the above, seems to me you're saying they can afford that weekend away but they're choosing to spend their money on fast fashion and gadgets?
We all place value on different things and then impose our values on others and then judge them based on our priorities; what's junk to one person might not be to someone else. I might think good dinner at a nice restaurant is a complete waste and choose to spend my money on whatever, a shiny bauble. Who's to say who was smarter with their cash?
I reckon we can all be wiser with how we spend some of our money but if you're paying your bills, putting some away for a rainy day and all that, and with your extra pennies you spend it on stuff that you think adds to your life, dunno, go for it I guess. If the argument is the middle class spends too much on any stuff regardless the quality then that applies to all of us.
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I don’t have any issue with anything, this is a discussion.

I am however of the opinion that the middle class, or those trying to attain middle class stability, are to a large extent wasting money on cheap, low quality products, because they are chasing some sort of dopamine release, and this is served up to them on a platter by social media “influencers” and completely unregulated advertising online, and also that many are stuck in a cycle of purchasing lower quality products because of “affordability” concerns, then replacing them every few months or years, instead of saving up, or “investing” in a more expensive higher quality version of the same item that will last a lifetime or even be passed on to a next generation, and this cycle is keeping people poorer.

I don’t buy the argument that consumerism has always been there, so what’s the issue. Consumerism changes and develops with the times, and the way products are presented to people today, the unregulated access to unregulated markets etc makes today’s consumerism very different to that of 20 or 30 years ago. It has been socially engineered into social media feeds, and subliming messaging is rife wherever people look. People are genuinely less happy about today as a rule than they were 20 years ago. They try to then fill that emptiness in their souls with death scrolling on social media, which had been designed to act on dopamine receptors, and create short, high intensity bursts of joy, and in this time, they are bombarded with advertising for absolute rubbish, that they can purchase without even getting off the couch, or climbing out of bed.

These same people then when asked to engage in real life, meaningful experiences, will decline because firstly, they are tired/worn out, because their dopamine has been depleted by social media and socially engineered online shopping for cheap junk, and secondly, because they don’t feel they can justify the expense, which is a direct result of overspending due to point 1.

Over time, this cycle becomes all consuming.
 
My_King said:
I take refentse on this statement.

It is the only thing that makes me feel better at the end of each day.

Then again, in my life, yeah, maybe consumerism is bad.
Click to expand...
You have often spoken out about growing up very poor. Do you not think perhaps this is a factor. You are gaining joy out of buying things online that an earlier version of yourself would never have imagined being able to afford, and you don’t in the moment feel guilty about the expense.

But you battle to justify a planned larger expense like a holiday, or a nice dinner, because it seems wasteful?
 
Zellephant said:
Following on the previous thread about trying to define the middle class, I have begun wondering if consumerism has also been playing a role in eroding the middle class.

There is no doubt that economics, the failure of the current goverment to ensure growth and keep inflation down and all those things have made middle class life extremely expensive. But, at the same time, I know lots of people who can’t afford to own a house, but pay premium on car instalments and replace their car every 2-3 years, and only buy new (with balloons and all)

People who can’t afford weekends away or a decent annual holiday, but spend a small fortune on fast fashion and Temu hauls and buying all kinds of toys and gadgets, totally obsessed with whatever the latest gimmick to be launched is.

What really got me thinking about this, is over the weekend, I bought myself a new pair of boots. These are high quality, handmade items imported from Australia. These boots cost me R4500.00. I wore them to a braai that evening. A friend commented on them being very good looking boots, but when I told him what I paid, he spent the rest of the evening telling me how crazy that is, how he would never spend that much, and how the R900.00 Chelsea boots he bought at Woolworths do the same job. It actually got a bit annoying toward the end of the evening - especially since I didn’t want to tell him about what they cost, he asked. And the price had nothing to do with why I bought them.

I bought them because I wear Chelsea boots and chinos 6 days a week, and I have another pair of the exact same boots, that I wear at least 3 times a week, have used them for both hunting trips and business meetings alike, and have been doing so for 15 years, and they are still pretty much in perfect shape… I just wanted a slightly shinier pair. To me, those boots seem like a bargain, just like my 10 year old MacBook, my 15 year old paid off car etc. I don’t buy anything unless I have a use case for it, and when I do, I rather save up and buy a quality item once, and use it for years. But everytime I do, people feel the need to tell me how much cheaper I could have gotten a similar product for - but these same people are constantly replacing their cheaper products with newer ones.

So, has a large part of the “middle class” replaced the joy one gets out of middle class experiences, like a good dinner at a nice restaurant once in a while, with daily uber eats deliveries, or the dopamine from weekends away/holidays with endless Temu and Takealot junk hauls.
Click to expand...
I think the problem is the quality of your friends...not the quality of your boots.
 
Zellephant said:
You have often spoken out about growing up very poor. Do you not think perhaps this is a factor. You are gaining joy out of buying things online that an earlier version of yourself would never have imagined being able to afford, and you don’t in the moment feel guilty about the expense.

But you battle to justify a planned larger expense like a holiday, or a nice dinner, because it seems wasteful?
Click to expand...
Hell yeah it is a factor.

Having nice things gives moerse joy.

Your assumption on me not liking, lets say a vacation is also true.

But I am a "to each their own".
Like a dinner, enjoy now, poef it out tomorrow. Nothing left. But for some people, go for it.

But my comment was more on your question. Also was more joking. (I did not really take refentse) :ROFL:
Things are getting more expensive. So if you buy more kak (ref to all our kak) and you start down this road, yes, consumerism will start killing the middle class.
 
My parents lived through the depression and WW-II in England and even though my father had a well-paying job, they were always frugal. He got a car from his employer, ICI in the UK but my mother had a small British car

That attitude to money, specifically living within your means brushed off on me. I was encouraged to open a bank account as soon as I was old enough and delay buying stuff until the money was there

The same attitude has continued to my daughter. She has a degree and works for a genetic lab and earns what I think is a very high salary, her husband is a partner in an architecture firm, but they don't splash out on frivolous things

Compare this to my UK Cousin. She spends her money so fast on junk, new cars every 2 years, a new phone every 9 months. The attitude in the UK seems something to do with the welfare state where you are sheltered from cradle to grave
 
My_King said:
Hell yeah it is a factor.

Having nice things gives moerse joy.

Your assumption on me not liking, lets say a vacation is also true.

But I am a "to each their own".
Like a dinner, enjoy now, poef it out tomorrow. Nothing left. But for some people, go for it.

But my comment was more on your question. Also was more joking. (I did not really take refentse) :ROFL:
Things are getting more expensive. So if you buy more kak (ref to all our kak) and you start down this road, yes, consumerism will start killing the middle class.
Click to expand...
Cool, thanks for clarifying. I also try to be an each to their own person, but I admit I battle with it when it comes to low quality cheap appliances and stuff. It’s been a pet hate of mine since I was a kid. I obsess over quality and workmanship and easthetics and pedigree/heritage, and it is something I am willing to pay for, but also only if I can justify the need for the product.

I am squarely in the experiences over things camp when it comes to spending, but I firmly believe that buying high quality things helps you afford those experiences in the long run, and also, when I buy “things” to be used for my hobbies/experiences, and they don’t perform properly, thereby detracting from the experience, it drive me up the wall.
 
Zellephant said:
Following on the previous thread about trying to define the middle class, I have begun wondering if consumerism has also been playing a role in eroding the middle class.

There is no doubt that economics, the failure of the current goverment to ensure growth and keep inflation down and all those things have made middle class life extremely expensive. But, at the same time, I know lots of people who can’t afford to own a house, but pay premium on car instalments and replace their car every 2-3 years, and only buy new (with balloons and all)

People who can’t afford weekends away or a decent annual holiday, but spend a small fortune on fast fashion and Temu hauls and buying all kinds of toys and gadgets, totally obsessed with whatever the latest gimmick to be launched is.

What really got me thinking about this, is over the weekend, I bought myself a new pair of boots. These are high quality, handmade items imported from Australia. These boots cost me R4500.00. I wore them to a braai that evening. A friend commented on them being very good looking boots, but when I told him what I paid, he spent the rest of the evening telling me how crazy that is, how he would never spend that much, and how the R900.00 Chelsea boots he bought at Woolworths do the same job. It actually got a bit annoying toward the end of the evening - especially since I didn’t want to tell him about what they cost, he asked. And the price had nothing to do with why I bought them.

I bought them because I wear Chelsea boots and chinos 6 days a week, and I have another pair of the exact same boots, that I wear at least 3 times a week, have used them for both hunting trips and business meetings alike, and have been doing so for 15 years, and they are still pretty much in perfect shape… I just wanted a slightly shinier pair. To me, those boots seem like a bargain, just like my 10 year old MacBook, my 15 year old paid off car etc. I don’t buy anything unless I have a use case for it, and when I do, I rather save up and buy a quality item once, and use it for years. But everytime I do, people feel the need to tell me how much cheaper I could have gotten a similar product for - but these same people are constantly replacing their cheaper products with newer ones.

So, has a large part of the “middle class” replaced the joy one gets out of middle class experiences, like a good dinner at a nice restaurant once in a while, with daily uber eats deliveries, or the dopamine from weekends away/holidays with endless Temu and Takealot junk hauls.
Click to expand...
You don't need to justify the money you spend to anyone. Just remind your friend about the boots theory. Your decision to buy something well made and of quality is sound, and people who know - they know. I can easily judge a man by his shoes; nothing beats a well made boot, quality stitching and leather. It's a sure sign of being discerning.

The problem I see these days is that people feel the need to buy and buy and buy crap they don't need.
 
Zellephant said:
I think you missed the point. I didn’t want to discuss the price of the boots, because I knew how the person would react, and they did.

The fact is, that same person spends a completely silly amount of money on nonsense. They get Takealot and Temu deliveries more than once a week. They also recon spending R900 on boots that need to be replace every year is a better deal than spending R4500 once every 15 years on a pair.
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I hate these discussions. Especially being cornered into them. An acquaintance at a braai was admiring a car I'd just got, and asked me how much I pay a month for it (who does that?), I told him I don't pay I bought it cash. He then carried on about 'how did I manage that?' - simple, life choices, investments, different payment mechanisms etc.
 
I generally don't read such long whiney posts but let's see.

You''re feeling guilty because your friend pointed out your frivalous spending. Instead of admitting he was right you ran to the internet to justify it? You do realise that guilt won't outrun all the posts that support your purchase right?
 
I feel as if anything against consumerism is an attack on my culture :cautious:


From chatgpt: "Jan Van Riebeeck and his Dutch East India Company (VOC) crew mainly traded beads, copper wire, iron tools, tobacco, and alcohol with the Khoikhoi in exchange for cattle and sheep. These were valuable to the Khoikhoi at the time for ornamental and practical purposes."

So basically in 1652 we all wanted glass beads as ornaments, as opposed to cattle
Now we all consume samsung phones and tvs, nike takkies and polos, as opposed to investing in our community and uplifting each other - when we are not blaming this government, or the last
 
The Darkness said:
I hate these discussions. Especially being cornered into them. An acquaintance at a braai was admiring a car I'd just got, and asked me how much I pay a month for it (who does that?), I told him I don't pay I bought it cash. He then carried on about 'how did I manage that?' - simple, life choices, investments, different payment mechanisms etc.
Click to expand...
This grinds my gears to no end. But the car dealers are part of the problem here, ever since they started advertising all their deals as “from only Rxxx.xx per month, instead of just advertising the purchase price of the car, and let me choose how to go about financing that purchase.

People who “buy” stuff, especially cars based on advertised monthly instalments are fooling themselves that they are buying anything. They are leasing, no matter what they tell themselves…. Which in itself isn’t necessarily a bad thing, but just be honest about it… and also, don’t bother yourself with how someone else chooses to pay for something, unless you really know they are doing themselves long term harm, and they are people that matter to you.

We lease my wife’s car, and I buy mine older, and cash. Works well for us, but it’s an informed decision.
 
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