Is it piracy?

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MadMailMan

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I don't know where to post this, so Mods if you feel it should be somewhere else please feel free to move it. :D

Anyways, my question is this. Is it piracy when you download TV programs from the internet? Example. If I download Dirty, Sexy Money so I can watch it without the annoying adverts, is this piracy. If yes, is it not piracy to tape it on my VHS or DVD recorder when it actually airs? I pay a TV license/subscription so that the TV channel owner gets money to pay the distributor/production company for the show. If no, then why are the production companies spending so much on anti-piracy?

Any legal beagles out there? What do you think? What does the law say?
 
The law is unclear because it has never been tested in our courts. But I would guess it depends what you do with the TV episode. If you are going to make a profit from it or mass distribute it, then yes... that would no doubt be illegal. But using it for your own personal purposes and then destroying the copy or purchasing the DVDs when they are released would not in my opinion be illegal. There is one other factor. The Studio Networks that produce that TV episode have in all likelihood not yet approved it for distribution in another country (that is why we can't watch their episodes online.. it has to do with advertising rights). But that is their problem and they would have to sue you to exercise that right.

Edit: note the above only applies to TV episodes. Games and movies are a different matter.
 
I suspect that you don't "own" the content in either case. So technically it would probably be illegal to copy it to a DVD or VHS and they probably could nail you in both the VHS and internet case.

In practice, I doubt they would.
 
erm i got a similar question.
If i have bought a game but i lose say 1 cd out of a collection of 3.
can i download that cd from a torrent site.
 
Noah said:
erm i got a similar question.
If i have bought a game but i lose say 1 cd out of a collection of 3.
can i download that cd from a torrent site.
Click to expand...

They would probably tell you to write to them with proof of purchase and the existence of the box and other CD and they would replace it for you. Sometimes free of charge (or only the cost of shipping). You would have to try that first before you could go and download it.

But having said that... even if you did download it... it's still not worth it to pursue you for one CD. To them it is not worth hiring a lawyer at R1000 an hour to sue you for a R300 game. You see what I mean? That does not make it legal though... just not worth their time.
 
It's never been tested in this country, and hopefully it never will be...

But both MadMailMan and Noah's questions are essentially the same. In both cases, they are licensed to hold a copy of the intellectual property for personal use. In both cases, it should be legal for them to acquire that copy off Bittorrent, P2P networks, or other unsanctioned means.

But it would be illegal (or at least a violation of tort), for them to redistribute that data to others who are not licensed. e.g by uploading via Bittorrent.
 
HavocXphere said:
I suspect that you don't "own" the content in either case. So technically it would probably be illegal to copy it to a DVD or VHS and they probably could nail you in both the VHS and internet case.

In practice, I doubt they would.
Click to expand...

I doubt taping it to a vhs would be illegal as then they wouldn't be allowed to sell vhs recorders, also if you allowed to tape to pvr then why not to a vhs?
 
Noah said:
erm i got a similar question.
If i have bought a game but i lose say 1 cd out of a collection of 3.
can i download that cd from a torrent site.
Click to expand...

Download it from the net right, then wait till it comes out budget title, buy it again :)

I've done that :)
 
Noah said:
erm i got a similar question.
If i have bought a game but i lose say 1 cd out of a collection of 3.
can i download that cd from a torrent site.
Click to expand...

yes :p

I feel i also pay a tv license and thus i can download my tv programs so that I can watch them clean of ads :D
 
MadMailMan said:
I don't know where to post this, so Mods if you feel it should be somewhere else please feel free to move it. :D

Anyways, my question is this. Is it piracy when you download TV programs from the internet? Example. If I download Dirty, Sexy Money so I can watch it without the annoying adverts, is this piracy. If yes, is it not piracy to tape it on my VHS or DVD recorder when it actually airs? I pay a TV license/subscription so that the TV channel owner gets money to pay the distributor/production company for the show. If no, then why are the production companies spending so much on anti-piracy?

Any legal beagles out there? What do you think? What does the law say?
Click to expand...

It depends on the content. If its a show you missed and was shown on TV
you could argue that its not piracy. If its a show not released in SA and the popularity of which make a releases unlikely - say a Russian WW2 drama like
the very excellent PENAL BATTALION, you could argue that you're not hurting anyone and besides it's unlikely the foreign co will sue you. Local guys will not sue you (Unless they own local rights for the show).

Technically its bad but there have been fansubbed anime series where
the producer acknowledged the unofficial fansub audience at the end of the
series and thanked them for watching too. So it all depends on your
morals and the local copyright of the show (an unlicenced foreign show
won't be protected by SAFACT - why should they spend money on
lawyers for foreign co). The fact that ads are not shown in the
version of the show you downloaded are an issue to, if you
avoided a TV viewing to avoid this.
 
MadMailMan said:
I don't know where to post this, so Mods if you feel it should be somewhere else please feel free to move it. :D

Anyways, my question is this. Is it piracy when you download TV programs from the internet? Example. If I download Dirty, Sexy Money so I can watch it without the annoying adverts, is this piracy. If yes, is it not piracy to tape it on my VHS or DVD recorder when it actually airs? I pay a TV license/subscription so that the TV channel owner gets money to pay the distributor/production company for the show. If no, then why are the production companies spending so much on anti-piracy?

Any legal beagles out there? What do you think? What does the law say?
Click to expand...

a) Yes its piracy to download
b) No its not piracy if you tape/record it when it airs

a = True because you do it probably: Its not aired yet in your country. And/Or to Skip the "annoying" ads.

b = True because, with the ads you can only use it for personal use (and you can fwd through them if you want) and, because those ads paid for the rights to air the specific episode.


So by downloading the episode to not watch the annoying ads and possibly getting the newest episodes that haven't aired yet in your country you're stealing the revenue that the teevee people would've made.

Agh I don't know.

My moral values aren't really that clean so I couldn't give a **** about these things. All I know is what I told you. Legally its illegal for you to download them but legal for you to VHS/DVD record them off of the TV
 
MadMailMan said:
Thanks for the input. To tell you the truth I just really HATE adverts. :D
Click to expand...

A couple of years ago they had VHS recorders that you could input a code into and it would cut out the adds :D But the the SABC and Multichoice started saying no to the codes being sentout with every add start and end :(

I think the advertisers on these channels prob. forced them to do it seeing as they lost "ad viewers" with this concept ...
 
AcidRaZor said:
a) Yes its piracy to download
Click to expand...

Please cite the specific act and Court Precedent where this is applicable in South Africa?

Copyright in South Africa is governed by the Copyright Act No. 98 of 1978, as amended and the Regulations made in terms thereof.

The act allows for certain conditions of "Fair Use" (exemptions). It is not clear whether the activity of downloading a TV program from the internet and watching it falls within the ambit of Fair Use. This is because no copyright holder has ever yet enforced their right against someone who has done this in South Africa. In fact it has never yet (as far as I know) been tested against anyone in the world in regard to TV shows. There are cases where people have been charged for "making available" or distributing copyright materials. But that is another matter.
 
AcidRaZor said:
a) Yes its piracy to download
b) No its not piracy if you tape/record it when it airs

a = True because you do it probably: Its not aired yet in your country. And/Or to Skip the "annoying" ads.

b = True because, with the ads you can only use it for personal use (and you can fwd through them if you want) and, because those ads paid for the rights to air the specific episode.
Click to expand...

so I can download it after it has aired?
 
In the US, recording a show falls under the category "copying for personal use". This only refers to time-shifting (i.e. recording the show to watch later), space-shifting (i.e. copying your music onto an MP3 player) and personal research.

So technically, if you are going to record a TV show, you're not actually supposed to hold onto the tape and watch it an unspecified number of times in the long-term. It is assumed that you will eventually record over the show. They're never going to really do anything about that right now, but it's technically illegal to then pass that copy onto another person (because that wouldn't constitute "personal use"). That person who passed it on could be liable for copyright infringement. But the person who downloads it still falls within the ambit of "Fair Use".
 
Garyvdh said:
In the US, recording a show falls under the category "copying for personal use". This only refers to time-shifting (i.e. recording the show to watch later), space-shifting (i.e. copying your music onto an MP3 player) and personal research.

So technically, if you are going to record a TV show, you're not actually supposed to hold onto the tape and watch it an unspecified number of times in the long-term. It is assumed that you will eventually record over the show. They're never going to really do anything about that right now, but it's technically illegal to then pass that copy onto another person (because that wouldn't constitute "personal use"). That person who passed it on could be liable for copyright infringement. But the person who downloads it still falls within the ambit of "Fair Use".
Click to expand...

Tehn I can Invite friends to come watcj it at my place? Like they would come watch other movies/shows?

And I will eventually delete they copy :)
 
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