Is it really that bad in SA?

[The_Assimilator]

So you're telling us we don't have:
Schools
Water
Electricity
Roads
Money
Identity (heh?)
Opportunity
Jobs (I wonder what I'm doing right now)
Promotions
Further learning
Manners
Standards

Schools? Good quality public ones are few and far between, and decreasing. Matric standards are being lowered every year to the point where a tertiary qualification is the minimum requirement to get a non-menial job.
Water, electricity, roads? Bad and getting worse. Eskom rolling blackouts mean anything to you?
Money? Our currency has depreciated by 100% against reserve currencies in the last 5 years, while basic necessities like petrol have seen 300% price increases.
Identity? Good luck being a white male.
Opportunity, jobs, promotions? With around 40% of the country unemployed, there isn't much of any. Especially if your skin is the wrong colour.
Further learning? UNISA is run by a bunch of chumps and all the physical institutions are being systematically destroyed by #FeesMustFall.
Manners and standards? Just look at the man who leads the country. He's an example of what the majority aspires to. Oh, and then there's that small violent crime problem.

 

[Archer]

Schools? Good quality public ones are few and far between, and decreasing. Matric standards are being lowered every year to the point where a tertiary qualification is the minimum requirement to get a non-menial job.
Water, electricity, roads? Bad and getting worse. Eskom rolling blackouts mean anything to you?
Money? Our currency has depreciated by 100% against reserve currencies in the last 5 years, while basic necessities like petrol have seen 300% price increases.
Identity? Good luck being a white male.
Opportunity, jobs, promotions? With around 40% of the country unemployed, there isn't much of any. Especially if your skin is the wrong colour.
Further learning? UNISA is run by a bunch of chumps and all the physical institutions are being systematically destroyed by #FeesMustFall.
Manners and standards? Just look at the man who leads the country. He's an example of what the majority aspires to. Oh, and then there's that small violent crime problem.

So to confirm, they do exist, just not in the quantity or quality that one would reasonably expect. Got it.
Schools exist
We do get water and electricity
We have money
So white males don't have an identity?
Opportunity is far easier to come by in a country with problems than one with none (as that would imply every need and want is already satisfied)
Unisa is the only place to further ones education? Interesting
Manners? I have plently. So do all my peers.
All of this is far cry from:

You're not going to find it here, period!

But what am I saying. Who can be reasonable and accept a middle ground. SA is either paradise or hell. My bad for ending up somewhere in the middle

edit: and petrol is only up 50% in the last 5 years. Check your facts. 25% right now actually

 

[Bobbin]

Your justifications? I didn't even know you are out the country, your location is Jhb...
Semantics? You're the one using hyperbole... Maybe don't use it if it doesn't convey your true meaning? Just a thought.

But let us try again - you said you can't find basic services in SA period, and then challenged me to pick only one. I did. So now I wait, show us how the vast majority of people don't have access to clean running water?

What is hilarious is that I too am considering moving abroad. Difference is I know what I've got here whereas you (and plenty others) sound like someone who only thinks about what they didn't have, like water apparently

I do live in JHB, was referring to OP coming back.

So of all the items in the list you chose the one I admitted was okay and you're calling me out on an over exaggeration . *sigh. Good on you.

I was without water for over 48 hours this month. Repairs take a long time. I had to travel to parents to shower a few times (And I stay in Fourways). I rather curiously have observed a number of water pipe bursts lately while driving around town which seems to be evident of poor maintenance. It's been discussed on 702 radio. There was a outage at a major reservoir in Bryanston as well. And when repairs do take place they leave a major section of destroyed pavement untouched for a long time. The incidents do honestly seem to be increasing.

There are articles on the state and quality of our water deteriorating. And from my layman's perspective it's a vicious cycle of increasing unemployment or skills (less taxpayers), decreasing economy (Or just slow growth), corruption/mismanagement etc... that surely does not help to circumvent this issue. And we're also faced with a serious drought which I've witnessed a few times over the past months. So forgive me for exaggerating :/

So the only good thing we can take out of this is more people have access to running water since 94. But that would be completely for naught if the deterioration continues. Lets think long term?

 

[maumau]

You have children????????????????

Then NO, NO, NO, NO, NO.

 

[OrbitalDawn]

not sure I can give a satisfactory answer, brain chemistry, psycho/social predisposition, what I hear at grass roots level, dealing with fresh talent emerging out of the hardships of the past and hearing their stories, being tapped in to programmes happening in communities to improve education and create change for the good, a deep love for SA and her people even though I wasn't born here, working with people from all walks of life to empower & develop them and there's probably more I could add

I'm not in denial around a lot of what others have posted, I've also been a victim of crime on numerous occasions including being robbed at gunpoint in a restaurant hold up, I'm well aware of the state of our economy and all the other negative aspects of where SA is right now

Maybe I'm also influenced by what I've seen on my travels, Angola makes SA look like paradise, as does Nepal and India

I guess I just see things differently

Well, your experience is your experience, and I disagree on some things while agreeing on others, which I expanded on why in an earlier post.

But one thing I will note is that many South Africans seem to have the 'it can't/won't happen here' mentality, in terms of the realities of a very seriously degrading/failed state scenario. To some extent we seem to think the fail train has to stop somewhere and things get turned around. In reality we're a nation like any other and it's entirely possible to go down the same route that countless other nations have before and will in the future.

Naturally I'm not saying we should give into hysteria, but there are simple realities that we need to face.

 

[Bobbin]

You have children????????????????

Then NO, NO, NO, NO, NO.

Yeah :/ this is another thing. If I had children and wished better for them, and people turn around and say I'm deserting this country bla bla bla... you know what? For my children I will do that with the biggest smile on my face and the best wishes for those who choose to stay. Simple.

Fortunately I don't have children though.

In addition there's this consensus I've seen that we fought to build this country and we shouldn't desert it now. Remember that our forefathers deserted theirs to get here in the first place. I hope this is a fair comment?

 

[Bobbin]

Schools? Good quality public ones are few and far between, and decreasing. Matric standards are being lowered every year to the point where a tertiary qualification is the minimum requirement to get a non-menial job.
Water, electricity, roads? Bad and getting worse. Eskom rolling blackouts mean anything to you?
Money? Our currency has depreciated by 100% against reserve currencies in the last 5 years, while basic necessities like petrol have seen 300% price increases.
Identity? Good luck being a white male.
Opportunity, jobs, promotions? With around 40% of the country unemployed, there isn't much of any. Especially if your skin is the wrong colour.
Further learning? UNISA is run by a bunch of chumps and all the physical institutions are being systematically destroyed by #FeesMustFall.
Manners and standards? Just look at the man who leads the country. He's an example of what the majority aspires to. Oh, and then there's that small violent crime problem.

Thank you! I was too lazy/unmotivated to type all of that and get into debate for the umpteenth time and get all worked up, but now look at me lol

 

[Bobbin]

I do think that it boils down to different personalities.

Some people enjoy living in the Wild West where anything goes while others enjoy the rule of law, stability and trains that run on time.

Me, I am done with the third world.

Apparently we were first world, or very close. Which I think is sad.

Now I know that this was at the exclusion of black people thanks to Apartheid. So it's a poor justification I admit.

But what I'd like to understand is if it was necessary to bring South Africa down so much thereafter? Is there an easy answer?

 

[freddster]

Yes it is. Listen to your mother.

The economy is in its death throes. If you're white, and you don't have a job to come back to, you're f**ked unless you're in a high-skill high-demand industry like software development. Additionally, South Africa is becoming unaffordable for middle class citizens.

Scary but I don't even believe in that anymore, I know of devs, MS qualified who battles to move jobs. Go for interviews and no move. One is 42, other 33. So yes, even if you are highly skilled dev, stay away.

 

[freddster]

Apparently we were first world, or very close. Which I think is sad.

Now I know that this was at the exclusion of black people thanks to Apartheid. So it's a poor justification I admit.

But what I'd like to understand is if it was necessary to bring South Africa down so much thereafter? Is there an easy answer?

they weren't excluded for the job market were they, like us whites theses days?

 

[Kilgore_Trout_Redux]

Now I know that this was at the exclusion of black people thanks to Apartheid. So it's a poor justification I admit.

I am going to get piled on and called racist here but white people are allowed to be a bit bitter about what they lost in South Africa. We did have safety, security, working infrastructure and services and we have seen this systematically dismantled.

On the flip side some (But far from the majority.) of black South Africans have a lot more than they ever could have had and thus are correct in thinking that the country is the best it has ever been.


Both are valid viewpoints and perhaps things would be better if we could all acknowledge that fact.

they weren't excluded for the job market were they, like us whites theses days?

Dude, they were officially classed as subhumans and denied the right to education and jobs...

 

[icyrus]

they weren't excluded for the job market were they, like us whites theses days?

wtf?

 

[Bobbin]

I am going to get piled on and called racist here but white people are allowed to be a bit bitter about what they lost in South Africa. We did have safety, security, working infrastructure and services and we have seen this systematically dismantled.

On the flip side some (But far from the majority.) of black South Africans have a lot more than they ever could have had and thus are correct in thinking that the country is the best it has ever been.


Both are valid viewpoints and perhaps things would be better if we could all acknowledge that fact.



Dude, they were officially classed as subhumans and denied the right to education and jobs...

And that right there is possibly the reason for ANC dominance. So I do question whether or not I can actually blame them.

One thing I feel is 100% absolute certain though and if I'm honest, as a white person right now this country does nothing for me and quite literally doesn't want me around. I'm a minority and, in the view of the majority, a past oppressor with a vastly different perspective than the majority. Even if not for race, our positions are also in great divide. And South Africa is I think one of the very few, if not only?, country right now where the law does not protect the minority. It's a twisted confused world over here

So what to do?

 

[Seriously]

Oh wow....things sound really dismal in SA. Majority seem to think SA sucks. Guess I have to start looking at the Canada option again....

Now you are thinking. At least the security and decent lifestyle is far better in Canada and at least infrastructure are built up new and do not get destroyed there if considered in comparison with South Africa where locally everything gets slowly destroyed by brainless imbeciles.

 

[Seriously]

My aunt came back, and she said he is not going back overseas. She said you work like a slave to maintain an expensive lifestyle. See, anecdotes are fun.

Your aunt probably also votes ANC and are not used to a decent humane and lifestyle as offered abroad.

Anyone taking your advice regards to this must have their brain scanned for serious mental defects.

 

[Sinbad]

Funny, I work like a slave in SA to maintain a not-particularly-expensive lifestyle.

I had MUCH more disposable cash in the UK. Despite the fact that my ZA salary is now, converted directly, more than I was earning in the UK then.

 

[Jola]

Funny, I work like a slave in SA to maintain a not-particularly-expensive lifestyle.

I had MUCH more disposable cash in the UK. Despite the fact that my ZA salary is now, converted directly, more than I was earning in the UK then.

SA is very expensive.

 

[saturnz]

Funny, I work like a slave in SA to maintain a not-particularly-expensive lifestyle.

I had MUCH more disposable cash in the UK. Despite the fact that my ZA salary is now, converted directly, more than I was earning in the UK then.

I have a different experience, I haven't worked for two years and I have to a certain degree maintained my lifestyle.

 

[Sinbad]

I have a different experience, I haven't worked for two years and I have to a certain degree maintained my lifestyle.

You are not the norm

 

[Seriously]

Methinks the lala landers are either very very well off and have not experienced much real crime (due to being that well off) or suffer ostrich syndrome. This place really is the shytehole it is and I would never come back to live. Hell, even coming back to holiday would take serious thinking.

Gee wizz. Never thought that over the years you and many others posting would have ever lost so much faith in this country.

How sad indeed.