Is it really that bad in SA?

OMB said:
they come and go as they please, one of our sales guys travels all over the country so he doesn't exactly work an 8 hour day
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Never get that way of thinking..... Flight times and waiting for boarding should all count to working days total hours, not just the time spent by the client
 
Whatzmyname said:
We are getting our stuff in order to return to SA after working (not immigrating) overseas for 16 years. We own a home in Cape Town and we are ready to come back...Now last night my mom sends me a long email telling us we should really think long and hard if we want to return. She says people are breaking down buildings, starting fires so that everyone comes down to their level and basically ruin the whole country. She said crime is terrible,food getting very expensive,monthly medical payment is a joke and that just buying meat has almost become unaffordable for the average South African. She said life is very hard in SA and people feel trapped.
On a side note...my mom tends to exaggerate a lot so that is why I am asking this forum for another point of view...Is it still good in SA or are we making a mistake? :confused: My husband is worried now after reading the email as my mom rarely emails....
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We have experienced the changes a little at a time. If you have not been in SA for let's say 5 years then your mother is correct. Things have changed a lot especially the last year or so when it comes to politics (EFF) student protests and the likes. Food prices have sky rocketed, this due to the rand crashing and other factors like the drought and so on. On the plus side, the rand has recovered, but this is SA, we will not see the improvement when it comes to daily commodities.

I'm still happy here, I feel safe and I make a decent living. So from my P.O.V I would say your mother is over reacting. But you are coming from another country and I suppose have been out of SA for a good while. You will get the shock of your life when you get here ;) Make sure you're in a good area, good school for the kids and have a good job and you'll be ok. Just be prepared to be shocked :p
 
Spizz said:
How do my qualifications and experience impact my ability (or lack of it) to look for another job if I don't like the T&C's in my present one?
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Did you seriously just ask this?
 
OrbitalDawn said:
I'd be curious as to your reasoning for optimism about SA...
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not sure I can give a satisfactory answer, brain chemistry, psycho/social predisposition, what I hear at grass roots level, dealing with fresh talent emerging out of the hardships of the past and hearing their stories, being tapped in to programmes happening in communities to improve education and create change for the good, a deep love for SA and her people even though I wasn't born here, working with people from all walks of life to empower & develop them and there's probably more I could add

I'm not in denial around a lot of what others have posted, I've also been a victim of crime on numerous occasions including being robbed at gunpoint in a restaurant hold up, I'm well aware of the state of our economy and all the other negative aspects of where SA is right now

Maybe I'm also influenced by what I've seen on my travels, Angola makes SA look like paradise, as does Nepal and India

I guess I just see things differently :o
 
twaatie said:
Never get that way of thinking..... Flight times and waiting for boarding should all count to working days total hours, not just the time spent by the client
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depends whether you're focussed on hours worked or results achieved
 
Spizz said:
Perhaps, but nothing stops you looking and trying to improve your lot.
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Except your lot is limited by your skills and experience.

I can try out for the NBA as much as I want, but if I'm 5"5 I'm not going to get very far.

Edit: A domestic worker is like a 4" tall person trying to get into the NBA, while you are at least 6" if you have some kind of qualification in SA (preferably a degree).
 
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Bobbin said:
If you need safety, security, education, basic services, transport, investment/wealth, identity, opportunities, employment, advancement, general civility, good standards etc... You're not going to find it here, period!
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So you're telling us we don't have:
Schools
Water
Electricity
Roads
Money
Identity (heh?)
Opportunity
Jobs (I wonder what I'm doing right now)
Promotions
Further learning
Manners
Standards

I guess my only real question is, when does your comedy show come to CT?
 
Well, you want to get to work this morning, West Rand to Sandton, Fourways, Randburg etc. Good luck with that.
protests.PNG
 
OMB said:
not sure I can give a satisfactory answer, brain chemistry, psycho/social predisposition, what I hear at grass roots level, dealing with fresh talent emerging out of the hardships of the past and hearing their stories, being tapped in to programmes happening in communities to improve education and create change for the good, a deep love for SA and her people even though I wasn't born here, working with people from all walks of life to empower & develop them and there's probably more I could add

I'm not in denial around a lot of what others have posted, I've also been a victim of crime on numerous occasions including being robbed at gunpoint in a restaurant hold up, I'm well aware of the state of our economy and all the other negative aspects of where SA is right now

Maybe I'm also influenced by what I've seen on my travels, Angola makes SA look like paradise, as does Nepal and India

I guess I just see things differently :o
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I think this is a fair view. You're not in denial and you are working towards something positive. To me, that's not to say South Africa is a good country worth a single lifetime to be a part of, but it just has some good elements to it that provides a glimmer of hope. Nothing wrong with that.
 
zolly said:
Except your lot is limited by your skills and experience.

I can try out for the NBA as much as I want, but if I'm 5"5 I'm not going to get very far.

Edit: A domestic worker is like a 4" tall person trying to get into the NBA, while you are at least 6" if you have some kind of qualification in SA (preferably a degree).
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I'm sorry. I have no idea what this has to do with looking for another job if you are unhappy in your present one.

If I'm a rocket scientist I'm not going to look for a job as a fisherman.
 
Archer said:
So you're telling us we don't have:
Schools
Water
Electricity
Roads
Money
Identity (heh?)
Opportunity
Jobs (I wonder what I'm doing right now)
Promotions
Further learning
Manners
Standards

I guess my only real question is, when does your comedy show come to CT?
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Lol what? Oh suuuure, yes we have those things lol. Let's just ignore at what state and standard and tick the box. Let's compare ourselves with a war torn country to say LOOK LOOK at how luck we got it! Sheesh :/ Grasping at straws dude. Probably the only "okay" thing you got there is water. The rest is royally fked!

I have very little energy to debate each though with you... Pick one at least.
 
I do think that it boils down to different personalities.

Some people enjoy living in the Wild West where anything goes while others enjoy the rule of law, stability and trains that run on time.

Me, I am done with the third world.
 
Bobbin said:
Lol what? Oh suuuure, yes we have those things lol. Let's just ignore at what state and standard and tick the box. Let's compare ourselves with a war torn country to say LOOK LOOK at how luck we got it! Sheesh :/ Grasping at straws dude. Probably the only "okay" thing you got there is water. The rest is royally fked!

I have very little energy to debate each though with you... Pick one at least.
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Did I say that these things are of exceptional standard, or even of an acceptable standard and available to all? Or compare to a country that is knee deep in war? Nope... But they do exist. I guess there goes your whole argument, seeing how it was based on pure fiction. But lets try anyway...

You said you cant find these things period - meaning it doesn't exist. So please, tell me how the vast majority of people don't have access to clean running water? :rolleyes:
 
Yes it is. Listen to your mother.

The economy is in its death throes. If you're white, and you don't have a job to come back to, you're f**ked unless you're in a high-skill high-demand industry like software development. Additionally, South Africa is becoming unaffordable for middle class citizens. Most of this is due to the depreciation of the Rand against major reserve currencies (~100% depreciation in the last half decade) against the fact that wages/salaries haven't appreciated by nearly as much. Basically, everyone is getting poorer.

Not only that, if you want decent services (police and medical) then you have to go private (armed response and medical aid). That's on top of the ~40% of your income tax you are paying to the government, basically so they can spend it on themselves. Things are better in Cape Town in this regard because the DA control it and actually give a s**t about trying to do a good job, but the ANC is doing its level best to make the province ungovernable so that they can take it over. Sooner or later their desperation will boil over into overt violence.

Have/having children? Will they be/are they white? I hope they choose to work in highly skilled professions, or that you can employ them in a family business. My brother is white, graduated from UNISA with a BCom in management 4 years ago, and only landed a job a few months ago - and not because of lack of trying.

tl;dr South Africa is on the path to become Zimbabwe 2.0 and anyone who says otherwise is a fool, ANC supporter, or wearing rose-tinted glasses. Do not come back here if you can avoid it. Seriously, DO NOT.

Go to Australia, go to Canada, go to the UK - anywhere but South Africa.
 
Archer said:
Did I say that these things are of exceptional standard, or even of an acceptable standard and available to all? Or compare to a country that is knee deep in war? Nope... But they do exist. I guess there goes your whole argument, seeing how it was based on pure fiction. But lets try anyway...

You said you cant find these things period - meaning it doesn't exist. So please, tell me how the vast majority of people don't have access to clean running water? :rolleyes:
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So you're going to invalid my justification for being hesitant to come back to South Africa based on semantics? Are you bored?

I specifically said if OP NEEDS those things. They are all more challenging, at risk or of unacceptable standard in SA than first world countries. Please pick one item on that list and let's discuss the reasoning. I'm happy to concede on it if we can agree that it's acceptable and at global standard.
 
Bobbin said:
So you're going to invalid my justification for being hesitant to come back to South Africa based on semantics? Are you bored?

I specifically said if OP NEEDS those things. They are all more challenging, at risk or of unacceptable standard in SA than first world countries. Please pick one item on that list and let's discuss the reasoning. I'm happy to concede on it if we can agree that it's acceptable and at global standard.
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Your justifications? I didn't even know you are out the country, your location is Jhb...
Semantics? You're the one using hyperbole... Maybe don't use it if it doesn't convey your true meaning? Just a thought.

But let us try again - you said you can't find basic services in SA period, and then challenged me to pick only one. I did. So now I wait, show us how the vast majority of people don't have access to clean running water?

What is hilarious is that I too am considering moving abroad. Difference is I know what I've got here whereas you (and plenty others) sound like someone who only thinks about what they didn't have, like water apparently :rolleyes:
 
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