Is it really that bad in SA?

cguy said:
After working in the UK for a few decades, I expect that a professional of even average success would be able to pull in R50k+/m in today's terms passively.
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£2200 net after tax a month is very easy in the UK. You can earn that within months.
 
SauRoNZA said:
When you put it like that...It seems even more of a drama about nothing.

That's 99968 unmurdered per 100 000.
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32/100000 is 3.2/10000, which is approximately 1 out of every 3000 vs 1 out of every 100000. This is per year - the odds of being murdered before you hit 80 is 1-(1-1/3000)^80=~2.5%.

A bigger concern is that other types of crime tend to correlate with murder statistics, so the odds of being affected by some other crime - rape, assault, assault with a weapon, hijacking, armed robbery, etc. is very high.

Yes, these statistics have a very non-uniform distribution as a function of socio-economic position, however, as things become more pear shaped, the wealth and therefore the security of those who consider themselves "safe" starts to erode.
 
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zippy said:
£2200 net after tax a month is very easy in the UK. You can earn that within months.
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I said "passively" - as in being able to pull that from retirement for the rest of your life without working.
 
I came back from a trip from Singapore and Philippines very recently and was instantly greeted with indifference, unprofessionalism and bad service. Whilst over there I felt super safe, even walking in the middle of the city at 2am. The place is booming with activity, is very young and alive. Asia is up and coming, and are overtaking the Western world rapidly.

A lot of people say that the level of lifestyle in SA is high. That is total BS. Yes, we own big homes, but that to me is the only plus. In Asia, for the same price, we can live in a top condo in some of the top locations, with fibre and everything else we have here. Both my husband and I received job offers to work in Manila. On our new incomes, we will be able to afford both homes (old and new) and pay off our new home in SA in under 3 years. Travel from abroad is also now affordable and possible on a monthly basis. Even using Uber is so cheap, it was shocking. Some places have free public transport that is clean and efficient. Tickets from Manila to Singapore were cheaper than a flight to Cape Town from Joburg. Living in Asia is different, but brings a lot more.

My main reasons for leaving SA (outside of earnings and desire to travel) are:

  • Political climate - Whites are dealt with a sort of contempt. It took my recent trip to notice it, but there is definitely something there. Also, recent comments made by our politicians have not made me comfortable. The idea of the rainbow nation is dead, and will never reach its potential. Whites are welcomed in other parts of the world. Heck, do you want to know what privilege is? Go to Asia. Damn, they make me feel so uncomfortable. Waiting in a queue? The manager will come up to you and personally help you.
  • Economy - Our economy is slow to react, has far too few tax payers and has no real incentives for investment. Our labour is expensive, labour laws are over the top and a lot of skills are quite difficult to find (I would say a lot due to immigration). On top of this, our taxes are extremely high. We are also a nation drowning in debt. Whites are also finding it harder and harder to find work. If you are in a senior position and have a high paying salary, good luck to you if you lose your job. It happened to us, and it almost broke us. It taught us a lesson: nothing in SA is stable. If you are in debt, get rid of it and stay out. Always be prepared to take a massive cut in earnings.
  • Safety - Do I need to say anymore on this?

South Africa has amazing food though. Our restaurants are really very good, and fresh produce is amazing. Red meat is impossibly expensive in Asia. All of their red meat is imported. Alcohol is also very, very expensive. If you are a wine drinker, you won't find any good wines easily. If you do, they are unaffordable. Food is comparatively priced, but the quality is not as great. Pork and chicken are cheap and available everywhere. We will probably cook 99% of the time now. Starbucks and MacDs and similar fast food places are available everywhere though. If you are not an adventurous eater or are picky, you may battle.

Outside of friends, family and food there is nothing else. It's rather sad. We have been forced to look at both sides objectively, and there is very little stopping us. Our country has so much potential, but we are only heading downwards.
 
Whites are welcomed in other parts of the world. Heck, do you want to know what privilege is? Go to Asia. Damn, they make me feel so uncomfortable. Waiting in a queue? The manager will come up to you and personally help you.
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did they make you feel welcomed because you are white or because you are a tourist?
 
thechamp said:
did they make you feel welcomed because you are white or because you are a tourist?
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It's because I am white, therefore viewed as wealthy. They love tourists and foreigners because they bring in money. There is so much investment there, it's quite eye opening. I saw so much construction in Manila and Singapore it made me worried that there is a bubble. I was assured by many that they don't build something until they have anchor tenants, so there is no rampant building for no reason. They have an entire city dedicated to cater for foreigners. Manila has the Bonifacio Global City.

White locals are also given the "express" service. One instance a friend went to sort out an electrical issue and he was pulled out of a long line and assisted by the floor manager. We were also taken out of lines and served quicker at the fast food joints. Was strange being serviced with a smile. Even where service charges were included on the bill.
 
MaryJane said:
It's because I am white, therefore viewed as wealthy. They love tourists and foreigners because they bring in money. There is so much investment there, it's quite eye opening. I saw so much construction in Manila and Singapore it made me worried that there is a bubble. I was assured by many that they don't build something until they have anchor tenants, so there is no rampant building for no reason. They have an entire city dedicated to cater for foreigners. Manila has the Bonifacio Global City.

White locals are also given the "express" service. One instance a friend went to sort out an electrical issue and he was pulled out of a long line and assisted by the floor manager. We were also taken out of lines and served quicker at the fast food joints. Was strange being serviced with a smile. Even where service charges were included on the bill.
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Go to Kenya and you'll get the same treatment.

But "oh no, this is Africa" all white people are evil and being put to death.
 
SauRoNZA said:
Go to Kenya and you'll get the same treatment.

But "oh no, this is Africa" all white people are evil and being put to death.
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Is that the case because you are white or because you are a tourist?

 
evilstebunny said:
Is that the case because you are white or because you are a tourist?

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Very much both.

But they were more inclined towards us "mozzarellas" than the "African" Americans who got somewhat ignored.

Which is funny as they have more buying power and will also buy more.

They are also quite knowledgeable about SA and surprisingly against Zuma and the ANC.
 
MaryJane said:
It's because I am white, therefore viewed as wealthy. They love tourists and foreigners because they bring in money. There is so much investment there, it's quite eye opening. I saw so much construction in Manila and Singapore it made me worried that there is a bubble. I was assured by many that they don't build something until they have anchor tenants, so there is no rampant building for no reason. They have an entire city dedicated to cater for foreigners. Manila has the Bonifacio Global City.

White locals are also given the "express" service. One instance a friend went to sort out an electrical issue and he was pulled out of a long line and assisted by the floor manager. We were also taken out of lines and served quicker at the fast food joints. Was strange being serviced with a smile. Even where service charges were included on the bill.
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Above all the attribute that I notice most acutely in places like Singapore, Hong Kong, Bangkok, etc is that the people are far more obsessed with getting on with things and being productive. They are utterly pragmatic and don't have the time of day for endless quibbling about skin colour. Literally nobody is "unemployed", because they have an inherent culture of family productivity - you can't get a job, no problem, you open a stall at the market or a little shop or some or other small scale business and the entire family gets involved.
 
Yeah rest of Africa gives off a very different vibe in that regard. No idea how the actual crime stats compare but it certainly felt like I should be more on the lookout for stammers and pickpockets than violent crime.

SauRoNZA said:
Go to Kenya and you'll get the same treatment.

But "oh no, this is Africa" all white people are evil and being put to death.
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Got the same - also Kenya. Actually felt safer there...one just gets harassed a lot by people trying to sell stuff
 
MaryJane said:
It's because I am white, therefore viewed as wealthy. They love tourists and foreigners because they bring in money. There is so much investment there, it's quite eye opening. I saw so much construction in Manila and Singapore it made me worried that there is a bubble. I was assured by many that they don't build something until they have anchor tenants, so there is no rampant building for no reason. They have an entire city dedicated to cater for foreigners. Manila has the Bonifacio Global City.

White locals are also given the "express" service. One instance a friend went to sort out an electrical issue and he was pulled out of a long line and assisted by the floor manager. We were also taken out of lines and served quicker at the fast food joints. Was strange being serviced with a smile. Even where service charges were included on the bill.
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Are you comfortable being treated this way? I personally would not

No special treatment just give me good service but not at the expense of my guy next to me

That said, I freakin love Asia!!!
 
mountainboy said:
Are you comfortable being treated this way? I personally would not
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Ever walked into a shop wearing a nice suit? Better service

Rich? Better service

Good looking? Better service

Etc etc. Hell even stuff like how tall you are influences how people treat you

Equality is nice on paper but simply doesn't exist IRL
 
mountainboy said:
Are you comfortable being treated this way? I personally would not

No special treatment just give me good service but not at the expense of my guy next to me

That said, I freakin love Asia!!!
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No, I was not comfortable with it. But it was very different receiving contempt free and efficient service. That is something I can get used to. Some tried to take us for a ride - like a cab company wanting to charge us almost R900 for a 8km cab ride (an Uber is around R90) or trying to get us through a quicker route at the airport. Being in SA has definitely made us better travelers. Not easy to dupe us.

Asia is a very interesting place. The food is not for me, but wow, it's bustling, friendly and efficient. Singapore is mind blowing. Won't get over it anytime soon. People who think that SA is almost a first world (as someone stated in this thread - can't recall) have not been to a first world. Heck, even Dubai is pretty amazing.
 
On another note I wasn't sure whether to tip the white petrol attendant the other day like I do with all the black guys. :p

How anyone reads into that is up to them. I'm just being honest :o
 
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